Son failed 11 plus - grammar schools can still be applied?
Discussion
Son failed his 11 plus, results came through last week via email.
A bit confused by the text below:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school and you intend to ask for a Selection Review, or appeal for a place in a particular grammar school (after 3 March 2025) then you should include grammar school(s) on your application.
There is no mention in the email of the selection review process or appeal process...............can someone shed some light?
A bit confused by the text below:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school and you intend to ask for a Selection Review, or appeal for a place in a particular grammar school (after 3 March 2025) then you should include grammar school(s) on your application.
There is no mention in the email of the selection review process or appeal process...............can someone shed some light?
G-wiz said:
Son failed his 11 plus, results came through last week via email.
A bit confused by the text below:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school and you intend to ask for a Selection Review, or appeal for a place in a particular grammar school (after 3 March 2025) then you should include grammar school(s) on your application.
There is no mention in the email of the selection review process or appeal process...............can someone shed some light?
I'm sure someone who knows what they're talking about will be along soon but don't like seeing your post being ignored.A bit confused by the text below:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school and you intend to ask for a Selection Review, or appeal for a place in a particular grammar school (after 3 March 2025) then you should include grammar school(s) on your application.
There is no mention in the email of the selection review process or appeal process...............can someone shed some light?
If you don't include grammars on the application then he won't get into one, if you do he might but they're leaving the opportunity to apply open. I'd go for it, the worst they can do is say no. But if you don't apply you can't get (your son) accepted. Find out what the application process is.
G-wiz said:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school...
How can they be the judge of this if they can't even get grammar correct themselves? Or, are there multiple Alex's that we're not aware of here?cheesejunkie said:
I'm sure someone who knows what they're talking about will be along soon but don't like seeing your post being ignored.
If you don't include grammars on the application then he won't get into one, if you do he might but they're leaving the opportunity to apply open. I'd go for it, the worst they can do is say no. But if you don't apply you can't get (your son) accepted. Find out what the application process is.
ETA some grammars are not as oversubscribed as they let on. You’re doing the right thing questioning but at some point you’ll have to argue your case.If you don't include grammars on the application then he won't get into one, if you do he might but they're leaving the opportunity to apply open. I'd go for it, the worst they can do is say no. But if you don't apply you can't get (your son) accepted. Find out what the application process is.
bompey said:
Not sure this will help, but just because grammar schools are good it does not mean a grammar school is good for your son.
My son went to a grammar school and felt he was a bit thick because so many of the kids were super bright, yet he would have been a genius in a normal school.
+1 for this - my brother was much the same, this pushed him to do incredibly well and to keep up with his fellow buddies, I got in also but I think I would have been suited more to a non grammar and been at the higher level in there as I am more of an "if I cant be no.1 then what is the point?"My son went to a grammar school and felt he was a bit thick because so many of the kids were super bright, yet he would have been a genius in a normal school.
Chicken_Satay said:
G-wiz said:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school...
How can they be the judge of this if they can't even get grammar correct themselves? Or, are there multiple Alex's that we're not aware of here?It’s been a few years but here in Kent.. but the ‘pass mark’ each year changes based on the number of grammar school places available. For examples sake if there are 100 places, the 100th pass score set that years threshold.
There were children in both my son’s years, who decided they didn’t want to go to the grammar school anyway. One example was having two older siblings in the nearest non-grammar.
Those places become free again, and anyone who failed can appeal and have a chance at them, although typically the kids with scores nearer the aforementioned pass mark will get them.
Things may occur differently in other counties or councils.
There were children in both my son’s years, who decided they didn’t want to go to the grammar school anyway. One example was having two older siblings in the nearest non-grammar.
Those places become free again, and anyone who failed can appeal and have a chance at them, although typically the kids with scores nearer the aforementioned pass mark will get them.
Things may occur differently in other counties or councils.
Edited by Hol on Saturday 19th October 07:42
Did you pay for private tutoring? If you didn't then it might be that he's brighter than a lot of the coached kids and if he wants to go then it might be worth appealing. I think the other posters are right that grammar schools are not always as oversubscribed as you might think and schools can be a push over if challenged an appealed. One of the reason why private schools get good results is they are very aggressive at challenging/gaming the appeals process of the exam systems
If he was tutored, then how do you and he feel about him being one of the more academically able in the non selective school or less academically able in the grammar.
What are the alternative schools like? Round here the local comp is very good (probably better performing with the raw material they get than the grammar schools) but it was a 'Sports College' and the grammar was a lot more suited to my academically inclined kids. My daughter would have had a miserable time at the comp (geeky and not into girly things. I think she would have been bullied); my son would have survived but probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as grammar.
I think boys go through a bit of a coasting phase at some point between 10 and 18. If you sense that this is happening and he has more potential to come then perhaps an appeal might be a good idea.
I think it's really important to get his view. Awful as it sounds. He's failed once. What if he fails his appeal? He'll have failed twice then.
I'm probably influenced by the experience of my father and father in law who both failed their 11 plus over 70 years ago when everyone had to take it. It shaped both of their lives. My dad went all out to prove he was clever doing well in technical college and further education but actually being a bit of a bore trying to one up people who'd taken the more conventional academic route. My father in law had a massive chip on his shoulder about 'book learning' and was lucky to fall into the family business where he could cultivate his igorance and prejudices without challenge.
If he was tutored, then how do you and he feel about him being one of the more academically able in the non selective school or less academically able in the grammar.
What are the alternative schools like? Round here the local comp is very good (probably better performing with the raw material they get than the grammar schools) but it was a 'Sports College' and the grammar was a lot more suited to my academically inclined kids. My daughter would have had a miserable time at the comp (geeky and not into girly things. I think she would have been bullied); my son would have survived but probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as grammar.
I think boys go through a bit of a coasting phase at some point between 10 and 18. If you sense that this is happening and he has more potential to come then perhaps an appeal might be a good idea.
I think it's really important to get his view. Awful as it sounds. He's failed once. What if he fails his appeal? He'll have failed twice then.
I'm probably influenced by the experience of my father and father in law who both failed their 11 plus over 70 years ago when everyone had to take it. It shaped both of their lives. My dad went all out to prove he was clever doing well in technical college and further education but actually being a bit of a bore trying to one up people who'd taken the more conventional academic route. My father in law had a massive chip on his shoulder about 'book learning' and was lucky to fall into the family business where he could cultivate his igorance and prejudices without challenge.
G-wiz said:
There is no mention in the email of the selection review process or appeal process...............can someone shed some light?
Appeals will normally look at any extraneous factors that may have influenced the exam results; prolonged illness, family bereavement, some issue on the day of the exam, etc, and balance this against the child's performance over the year or years prior to the actual exam. This will almost always include consultation with Head and Teachers. What they are looking for is to conclude that 'if it wasn't for 'X', they would have passed'. So, before you progress, you need to consider if anything will be established. If there is nothing, that doesn't mean you can't apply regardless - as someone else has mentioned, they can only say no, but at least you can move forward with expectations kept in check.There are, remarkably, lawyers who specialise in appeals related to Grammar School entry. A former colleague of mine went this route when her eldest son failed the 11+. They spent many thousands on this which ultimately proved fruitless. The lad just wasn't cut out for Grammar School.
My daughter went to Grammar School. My son didn't. My daughter is now 29 and my son 25. Both are doing remarkably well in their chosen professions. Grammar School is good for the right student but is not the be-all and end-all some believe it to be.
CanAm said:
Chicken_Satay said:
G-wiz said:
Although Alex has not qualified for a Buckinghamshire grammar school if you feel strongly that they would be suitably placed in a grammar school...
How can they be the judge of this if they can't even get grammar correct themselves? Or, are there multiple Alex's that we're not aware of here?StevieBee said:
G-wiz said:
There is no mention in the email of the selection review process or appeal process...............can someone shed some light?
Appeals will normally look at any extraneous factors that may have influenced the exam results; prolonged illness, family bereavement, some issue on the day of the exam, etc, and balance this against the child's performance over the year or years prior to the actual exam. This will almost always include consultation with Head and Teachers. What they are looking for is to conclude that 'if it wasn't for 'X', they would have passed'. So, before you progress, you need to consider if anything will be established. If there is nothing, that doesn't mean you can't apply regardless - as someone else has mentioned, they can only say no, but at least you can move forward with expectations kept in check.There are, remarkably, lawyers who specialise in appeals related to Grammar School entry. A former colleague of mine went this route when her eldest son failed the 11+. They spent many thousands on this which ultimately proved fruitless. The lad just wasn't cut out for Grammar School.
My daughter went to Grammar School. My son didn't. My daughter is now 29 and my son 25. Both are doing remarkably well in their chosen professions. Grammar School is good for the right student but is not the be-all and end-all some believe it to be.
As others have indicated the auto pass mark is set to ensure that there are additional places available so that children who have undershot for good reasons can be accommodated.
G-wiz said:
Bonefish Blues said:
How far off an automatic place was he? (Bucks grammar school pupil parent here)
He scored 111. Pass mark is 121.oddman said:
Did you pay for private tutoring? If you didn't then it might be that he's brighter than a lot of the coached kids and if he wants to go then it might be worth appealing. I think the other posters are right that grammar schools are not always as oversubscribed as you might think and schools can be a push over if challenged an appealed. One of the reason why private schools get good results is they are very aggressive at challenging/gaming the appeals process of the exam systems
If he was tutored, then how do you and he feel about him being one of the more academically able in the non selective school or less academically able in the grammar.
What are the alternative schools like? Round here the local comp is very good (probably better performing with the raw material they get than the grammar schools) but it was a 'Sports College' and the grammar was a lot more suited to my academically inclined kids. My daughter would have had a miserable time at the comp (geeky and not into girly things. I think she would have been bullied); my son would have survived but probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as grammar.
I think boys go through a bit of a coasting phase at some point between 10 and 18. If you sense that this is happening and he has more potential to come then perhaps an appeal might be a good idea.
I think it's really important to get his view. Awful as it sounds. He's failed once. What if he fails his appeal? He'll have failed twice then.
I'm probably influenced by the experience of my father and father in law who both failed their 11 plus over 70 years ago when everyone had to take it. It shaped both of their lives. My dad went all out to prove he was clever doing well in technical college and further education but actually being a bit of a bore trying to one up people who'd taken the more conventional academic route. My father in law had a massive chip on his shoulder about 'book learning' and was lucky to fall into the family business where he could cultivate his igorance and prejudices without challenge.
Interesting. If he was tutored, then how do you and he feel about him being one of the more academically able in the non selective school or less academically able in the grammar.
What are the alternative schools like? Round here the local comp is very good (probably better performing with the raw material they get than the grammar schools) but it was a 'Sports College' and the grammar was a lot more suited to my academically inclined kids. My daughter would have had a miserable time at the comp (geeky and not into girly things. I think she would have been bullied); my son would have survived but probably wouldn't enjoy it as much as grammar.
I think boys go through a bit of a coasting phase at some point between 10 and 18. If you sense that this is happening and he has more potential to come then perhaps an appeal might be a good idea.
I think it's really important to get his view. Awful as it sounds. He's failed once. What if he fails his appeal? He'll have failed twice then.
I'm probably influenced by the experience of my father and father in law who both failed their 11 plus over 70 years ago when everyone had to take it. It shaped both of their lives. My dad went all out to prove he was clever doing well in technical college and further education but actually being a bit of a bore trying to one up people who'd taken the more conventional academic route. My father in law had a massive chip on his shoulder about 'book learning' and was lucky to fall into the family business where he could cultivate his igorance and prejudices without challenge.
Both my mother and uncle failed the 11 plus, but their father was a high up in the council, (director of parks Gardens and open spaces) and also a Mason. An appeal was lodged in both cases because they were both Dyslexic, and both ended up in the respective single sex grammar school. What strings were pulled back.in the late 1940s and easy 50s. I don't know. The fact that my uncle was very good at cricket may have helped his cause.
Thier younger sister had no issues.
Adwillsy said:
bompey said:
Not sure this will help, but just because grammar schools are good it does not mean a grammar school is good for your son.
My son went to a grammar school and felt he was a bit thick because so many of the kids were super bright, yet he would have been a genius in a normal school.
+1 for this - my brother was much the same, this pushed him to do incredibly well and to keep up with his fellow buddies, I got in also but I think I would have been suited more to a non grammar and been at the higher level in there as I am more of an "if I cant be no.1 then what is the point?"My son went to a grammar school and felt he was a bit thick because so many of the kids were super bright, yet he would have been a genius in a normal school.
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