Are things getting too complicated??
Discussion
Over the last year or two it has occurred to me that in general there are now a great many 'things' in life that are getting more and more complicated and as a result it takes longer and longer to do anything or get anything done. A large number of things now has far more steps than are required or than they used to have (software is a major culprit).
e.g. I am working for a customer, it requires me to log in to my machine, then on to their network which requires 2FA then on to their virtual portal - more 2FA then on to a virtual machine (2FA again) and finally on to the software (oddly no 2FA for that one). Each 2FA requires logging on to a mobile phone then on to the authenticate app then entering the supplied number then confirming that with password entry on the phone again.
Insurance renewal came through the post, contained no certificates and no mention of how much it was but there were 7 sheets of paper of legal stuff and other guff, so now I have to find/make an online account and log on to their portal and download a PDF.
It strikes me that there has to be a limit for this where at some point it collapses under its own administrative burden because everything requires many more unecessary steps than it used to and takes much longer to achieve but provides no real benefit.
It is as if 'Continual Service Improvement' has finished making the metaphorical circle round and now has to add knobs on just to tick the box that someone is making 'Improvements'.
Is that just me? Or perhaps I'm a grumpy old man and should go and shake my fist at the sky...bah humbug!!!
e.g. I am working for a customer, it requires me to log in to my machine, then on to their network which requires 2FA then on to their virtual portal - more 2FA then on to a virtual machine (2FA again) and finally on to the software (oddly no 2FA for that one). Each 2FA requires logging on to a mobile phone then on to the authenticate app then entering the supplied number then confirming that with password entry on the phone again.
Insurance renewal came through the post, contained no certificates and no mention of how much it was but there were 7 sheets of paper of legal stuff and other guff, so now I have to find/make an online account and log on to their portal and download a PDF.
It strikes me that there has to be a limit for this where at some point it collapses under its own administrative burden because everything requires many more unecessary steps than it used to and takes much longer to achieve but provides no real benefit.
It is as if 'Continual Service Improvement' has finished making the metaphorical circle round and now has to add knobs on just to tick the box that someone is making 'Improvements'.
Is that just me? Or perhaps I'm a grumpy old man and should go and shake my fist at the sky...bah humbug!!!
Yes I think this all the time. Anything involving a computer is an exercise in frustration now, it's like they're deliberately trying to make you angry.
Sign in to this account. Oh we've changed our system, you'll need to reset your password.
<waits for email>
Resets password (very long, very complicated, asks browser to save it)
Oh you need to link your XYZ account to your ABC account, please go to ABC and log in with your XYZ password
<browser hasn't saved password, dig it out manually, enter it>
Error. Back to first screen.
It goes on and on and on, everything you do now is a long winded pain in the balls.
Sign in to this account. Oh we've changed our system, you'll need to reset your password.
<waits for email>
Resets password (very long, very complicated, asks browser to save it)
Oh you need to link your XYZ account to your ABC account, please go to ABC and log in with your XYZ password
<browser hasn't saved password, dig it out manually, enter it>
Error. Back to first screen.
It goes on and on and on, everything you do now is a long winded pain in the balls.
I tend to agree. In the interests of progress and convenience, technology does seem to have made things less convenient and progress questionable in many cases. Although I can see that in the majority of cases all this guff is delivering wonderful cost saving / efficiencies for the provider, none of which I appear to benefit from but is no doubt being seen in greater profits.....
Not sure I agree with the whole password thing. With everything now stored online, ultimately I'd rather be forced to reset my password once a month, and think of a more complicated one to reduce the chances of having my details stolen. It definitely has made me shout at the laptop once or twice though!
Paperwork is annoying. I think the insurance example is companies hitting the 'tick box', but not thinking about the customer experience.
To flip this around, how many go out of their way to give feedback?
Paperwork is annoying. I think the insurance example is companies hitting the 'tick box', but not thinking about the customer experience.
To flip this around, how many go out of their way to give feedback?
There’s a lot of very bored software developers out there that just have to carry on changing systems. I’m all for security and, in general, it has served me extremely well, but all the extra hoops can be a pain to jump through. Recently trying to buy some exhibition tickets online took me the best part of half an hour.
generationx said:
There’s a lot of very bored software developers out there that just have to carry on changing systems. I’m all for security and, in general, it has served me extremely well, but all the extra hoops can be a pain to jump through. Recently trying to buy some exhibition tickets online took me the best part of half an hour.
This is very true,IT bods seem to exist to make peoples life worse, easy things made worse. I worked for a company a while back that had a very workable computer system, then it got "upgraded" at great expense. It has never worked properly since, costing many lost productive hours.When i suggested we move back to the old system i was given a million reasons why not to by IT, I did it anyway, works fine and has ever since.
Another example of this is car park ticket machines, old days put coins in, get ticket, stick ticket in windscreen, job done.
Now, wonder around trying to get phone signel down load app, and it seems every car park has a different one, creat account, by which time you had forgotten why you were parking there anyway.
Huzzah said:
Yes
And what's 2FA?
2 factor authentication. Though given the following MFA is probably a better name these days (mult-factor authentication).And what's 2FA?
To be considered secure, a computer system requires you to have access to any two of the following in addition to your username:
1) something you are
2) something you know
3) something you have
1) essentially means biometrics - which is why FaceID or a fingerprint check are acceptable on a phone finance app
2) essentially means a longer lasting password, which you're supposed to keep secret. Should ideally be changed every few months though.
3) essentially means a frequently changing code. Like the example of an authenticator type app in the OP, which usually has a 6-digit code changing on a 30-second basis. It can also be a USB key (eg Yubikey) which you plug in when the website/application asks you to, and it checks a certificate stored on it.
Usually number 2 is a given, almost every app or web login requires a username and password. The higher security comes from using one of the others alongside it.
It might be a faff, but it's vastly more secure using these systems - you are significantly less likely to be unpicking the disaster of identity theft and all that follows. Apps like Microsoft Authenticator, Google Authenticator or Okta Personal are free to download and use, and work with large numbers of unrelated sites.
It was easier when it was new and nobody gave a s
t about security, unfortunately too many criminals and too many dimwitted pillocks giving their bank logon details to a man with a strong accent who called and promised he was from MI6 mean that has passed and MFA and the like is here to stay.
Doesn't mean we have to like it.
t about security, unfortunately too many criminals and too many dimwitted pillocks giving their bank logon details to a man with a strong accent who called and promised he was from MI6 mean that has passed and MFA and the like is here to stay.Doesn't mean we have to like it.
Paypal has become a pita for me. It's starting to question almost every transaction I want to make and wants to send an authentication check to one of the phone numbers it keeps on my account.
You know where this is going, of course. Instead of using my mobile number which has essentially been the same since the early 1990s it wants to use an out of date phone number which is the landline of a previous address.
Sure, just remove that number from my account - but Paypal wants to have two phone numbers on my account and won't let me remove the out of date number, just replace it. I dont have another number to take its place so I can't proceed with updating my details.
So every time Paypal comes up with this extra check requirement I use a different method of payment - which is a pain (ita). Their (financial) loss.
Oh and don't get me started on OVO who won't let me update my address online and whose phone payment system doesn't recognise the account number they supplied.
You know where this is going, of course. Instead of using my mobile number which has essentially been the same since the early 1990s it wants to use an out of date phone number which is the landline of a previous address.
Sure, just remove that number from my account - but Paypal wants to have two phone numbers on my account and won't let me remove the out of date number, just replace it. I dont have another number to take its place so I can't proceed with updating my details.
So every time Paypal comes up with this extra check requirement I use a different method of payment - which is a pain (ita). Their (financial) loss.
Oh and don't get me started on OVO who won't let me update my address online and whose phone payment system doesn't recognise the account number they supplied.
Agreed!
I used to get a montly mobile phone bill. Recently got a new phone and contract so wanted to make sure I am being charged correctly and balance on my account. That will be on the app then.
1. Use software to transfer contents from old phone to new
2. Open app new phone
3. Update app on new phone
4. Open new app on new phone
5. Try to log in
6. Get text message. Put code into app
7. Set a new PIN
8. Apps reports a problem
9. Repeat steps 4 to 8 again until I just know, it is not to work
10. Go to EE website. Log in. Website reports a problem
11. Google the problem. Can post question on EE forum
12. Register to use forum
13. Receive email as part of registration. Click on email
14. Log in. Post message. Everyone else has same problem
15. Ring EE. Take me through security
16. Problem remains unsolved
17. Still don't know what me bill is and no hope of it either. All beyond my control and unlikely to be resolved. Lost an hour of my life.
It was easier when it just came in the post.
Progress?
I used to get a montly mobile phone bill. Recently got a new phone and contract so wanted to make sure I am being charged correctly and balance on my account. That will be on the app then.
1. Use software to transfer contents from old phone to new
2. Open app new phone
3. Update app on new phone
4. Open new app on new phone
5. Try to log in
6. Get text message. Put code into app
7. Set a new PIN
8. Apps reports a problem
9. Repeat steps 4 to 8 again until I just know, it is not to work
10. Go to EE website. Log in. Website reports a problem
11. Google the problem. Can post question on EE forum
12. Register to use forum
13. Receive email as part of registration. Click on email
14. Log in. Post message. Everyone else has same problem
15. Ring EE. Take me through security
16. Problem remains unsolved
17. Still don't know what me bill is and no hope of it either. All beyond my control and unlikely to be resolved. Lost an hour of my life.
It was easier when it just came in the post.
Progress?
It can be a pain sometimes, but it's worth it. Think of all the things you can do without having to leave the house or even speak to someone. Order food, book a holiday, file a tax return, apply for a mortgage, tax a car, pay in a cheque etc.
So much timed saved. I remember having to go to the bank once a month to physically pay my credit card bill.
So much timed saved. I remember having to go to the bank once a month to physically pay my credit card bill.
Gnits said:
Over the last year or two it has occurred to me that in general there are now a great many 'things' in life that are getting more and more complicated and as a result it takes longer and longer to do anything or get anything done. A large number of things now has far more steps than are required or than they used to have (software is a major culprit).
e.g. I am working for a customer, it requires me to log in to my machine, then on to their network which requires 2FA then on to their virtual portal - more 2FA then on to a virtual machine (2FA again) and finally on to the software (oddly no 2FA for that one). Each 2FA requires logging on to a mobile phone then on to the authenticate app then entering the supplied number then confirming that with password entry on the phone again.
Insurance renewal came through the post, contained no certificates and no mention of how much it was but there were 7 sheets of paper of legal stuff and other guff, so now I have to find/make an online account and log on to their portal and download a PDF.
It strikes me that there has to be a limit for this where at some point it collapses under its own administrative burden because everything requires many more unecessary steps than it used to and takes much longer to achieve but provides no real benefit.
It is as if 'Continual Service Improvement' has finished making the metaphorical circle round and now has to add knobs on just to tick the box that someone is making 'Improvements'.
Is that just me? Or perhaps I'm a grumpy old man and should go and shake my fist at the sky...bah humbug!!!
In my opinion, it's why so many people suffer from depression and anxiety than ever before. Increasing expectations from life, everything being more complicated and difficult, formerly simple tasks like contacting utility companies, banks and most companies are now tortuous affairs, involving long telephone waits and having to jump through hoops. Even cars are too complicated whilst generally being pretty rubbish. I'm with Jeremy Clarkson, who has lost a lot of interest as 80% of cars are dull, boring, characterless. As a petrolhead it's disappointing.e.g. I am working for a customer, it requires me to log in to my machine, then on to their network which requires 2FA then on to their virtual portal - more 2FA then on to a virtual machine (2FA again) and finally on to the software (oddly no 2FA for that one). Each 2FA requires logging on to a mobile phone then on to the authenticate app then entering the supplied number then confirming that with password entry on the phone again.
Insurance renewal came through the post, contained no certificates and no mention of how much it was but there were 7 sheets of paper of legal stuff and other guff, so now I have to find/make an online account and log on to their portal and download a PDF.
It strikes me that there has to be a limit for this where at some point it collapses under its own administrative burden because everything requires many more unecessary steps than it used to and takes much longer to achieve but provides no real benefit.
It is as if 'Continual Service Improvement' has finished making the metaphorical circle round and now has to add knobs on just to tick the box that someone is making 'Improvements'.
Is that just me? Or perhaps I'm a grumpy old man and should go and shake my fist at the sky...bah humbug!!!
Yes, but many of the complaints seem to be the natural issues that infrastructure has, albeit here consumers face it more directly.
1. Solutions to new problems are developed e.g. biometrics.
2. Existing systems never envisaged 1 so their implementation is impossible/expensive/a patchwork/crap
3. Anyone starting from scratch goes straight to 1, e.g the Chinese with high speed trains or app-only challenger banks with biometrics
1. Solutions to new problems are developed e.g. biometrics.
2. Existing systems never envisaged 1 so their implementation is impossible/expensive/a patchwork/crap
3. Anyone starting from scratch goes straight to 1, e.g the Chinese with high speed trains or app-only challenger banks with biometrics
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