Moving a parent closer to home

Moving a parent closer to home

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Discussion

Gad-Westy

Original Poster:

15,069 posts

220 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
I'm sure other PH'ers have thought about this or been through this process so I'd love to hear other's experience. The situation is this:

My mother lives alone approx. 200 miles from me. I'm her only child. Married, two kids. We live in the North East. Mother is from the North East originally though an entirely different area so we are her only connection to the area we live in. Mother in her mid 70's. Generally good health but has had a few set backs of late that have perhaps opened all of our eyes as to how little support we can give her living so far away. She is very independent, does a lot of things you perhaps would not expect someone her age to do and has a small but very robust friend group locally. Currently, she needs a hip replacement and it is massively limiting what she can do but she can still drive long distances and visits us reasonably often and we get down to see her as family a few times per year too. Doesn't seem enough sometimes but of course with 2 young kids, there is a lot going on at our end too and it can be a difficult balance.

We have talked with her a lot about whether she would consider moving local to us. Obviously this is partly selfish as it would make our lives a lot easier when it comes to offering her any practical support (I often end up with a list of DIY jobs when I visit for example) but I have to admit a big worry for me is the thought of her deteriorating with nobody around to help. The reality is that her friends are all her age too and a mixed bag in terms of their own health. Or we face the prospect of being forced to move her here in later life when she has no ability to make a place her home or meet new people. It's really tricky as to move now she would be leaving her friends and her house of 30+ years that she has made very much her own. I'm a little concerned if we put too much pressure on and she moves up this way she could be miserable but I feel the earlier she does that the more good years she has to build a new life locally. She'd see us more of course but I wouldn't want to think that would be the only thing she has got going on in life.

Would really appreciate the thoughts of PH.


Muzzer79

11,031 posts

194 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
What are you mother's views on the subject?

Ultimately, if she is of sound mind and body, it's up to her.

My parents are not getting any younger and both (who divorced eons ago) live far away. My Dad is about to move even further away.

I'd like them to be more local, but I can't force them - it's their money and their life.



Gad-Westy

Original Poster:

15,069 posts

220 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
What are you mother's views on the subject?

Ultimately, if she is of sound mind and body, it's up to her.

My parents are not getting any younger and both (who divorced eons ago) live far away. My Dad is about to move even further away.

I'd like them to be more local, but I can't force them - it's their money and their life.
My mum seems quite on the fence about it. For all she is independent in many ways, she can very much struggle with bigger decisions so I would say there is no decision on this. So she's not dismissive of the idea at all but I don't feel she is really sold on it either and I don't really want to push too hard on it as, like you say, it's her decision. I worry that she perhaps is planning for the best and perhaps hopes she can live in her house in good health forever. I hope that happens too of course but I think balance of probability based on the last few years is that she won't have full independence.

I guess it's worth mentioning that there have been a couple of health scares in the last few years, where I have had to drop everything with no notice and head to her place to help. My wife ended up doing similar when I was out of the country once and had to get someone else to pick kids up from school and ultimately MIL had to come up to our place to look after them for a couple of days while she was away. These are not normal circumstances of course but it was a real reality check to us as to how difficult it was for us to provide help when it's needed.

Perhaps also of some relevance is that the other two surviving parents also live away from us. 100 miles and 200 miles. Both have partners and neither have really given us any scares so perhaps it's less of a concern a this stage but it is a factor in how generally be perhaps feel a little thinly spread when it comes to being able to visit them all as often as we'd like.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 9th September 09:41

alscar

5,370 posts

220 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
It's a tricky one to get right to suit both parties but I don't think you can as ultimately its your Mothers decision so all you can really do is point out the pro's and con's of such a move.
My parents did move back to be nearer us and their grandchildren but unfortunately my Father then died fairly suddenly and my Mother decided she couldn't manage being on her own but before we could chat about such things decided to move away completely with someone who had lost his wife a few months earlier !
This happened within 6 months of my Fathers death btw.
She did ask for "my blessing " which whilst I found difficult to give felt I had no choice but to, although pointed out all the pros and cons.
Her second husband then died a couple of years after and she then decided she wanted to move even further away to where she was born.
I have said that at her age ( now 85) this isn't perhaps the best idea given she is settled where she is and given the different area price discrepancies probably( definitely ) cannot afford it anyway.
Any attempt to talk about coming back nearer us is met with a simple no as apparently she doesn't know anyone ?!



595Heaven

2,596 posts

85 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
Difficult one. Whilst she is still of sound mind and (nearly) sound body it is really up to her. I have the same issue with my mum, and she doesn’t want to leave her house.

One thing I’d strongly suggest is getting a Power of Attorney agreement (well, there are two - Health & welfare and Finance) in place now whilst she is fit and healthy. Makes things much easier if and when she is not so fortunate and her health deteriorates. Easy to do and about £180 I think. Takes 3-4 months to complete, hence the suggestion to do it now.

NDA

22,304 posts

232 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
I did this...

After my father died, I bought my mother a house in my village - a very beautiful detached cottage on a cricket green. It also meant she could sell the family home (also 200 miles away) at her leisure without being in any chain. The money from selling the family home would be useful for her as she had a free house to live in.

It was all a bit of a disaster. Firstly my brother helped himself (under a Power of Attorney that I didn't know existed) to the newly available cash.

My mother also wanted a new roof, new bathroom, new kitchen, new central heating, new carpets throughout etc All of which I did.

We entertained my mother every week at my house with Sunday lunches etc and listened to how much she missed her home town... so... she moved back! I lost about £250k on the house as the property market dipped and I'd spent a fortune making the house as she wanted it.

Trying to help parents, certainly in my case, was a total mess. A very expensive one too.

Muzzer79

11,031 posts

194 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
Gad-Westy said:
Muzzer79 said:
What are you mother's views on the subject?

Ultimately, if she is of sound mind and body, it's up to her.

My parents are not getting any younger and both (who divorced eons ago) live far away. My Dad is about to move even further away.

I'd like them to be more local, but I can't force them - it's their money and their life.
My mum seems quite on the fence about it. For all she is independent in many ways, she can very much struggle with bigger decisions so I would say there is no decision on this. So she's not dismissive of the idea at all but I don't feel she is really sold on it either and I don't really want to push too hard on it as, like you say, it's her decision. I worry that she perhaps is planning for the best and perhaps hopes she can live in her house in good health forever. I hope that happens too of course but I think balance of probability based on the last few years is that she won't have full independence.

I guess it's worth mentioning that there have been a couple of health scares in the last few years, where I have had to drop everything with no notice and head to her place to help. My wife ended up doing similar when I was out of the country once and had to get someone else to pick kids up from school and ultimately MIL had to come up to our place to look after them for a couple of days while she was away. These are not normal circumstances of course but it was a real reality check to us as to how difficult it was for us to provide help when it's needed.

Perhaps also of some relevance is that the other two surviving parents also live away from us. 100 miles and 200 miles. Both have partners and neither have really given us any scares so perhaps it's less of a concern a this stage but it is a factor in how generally be perhaps feel a little thinly spread when it comes to being able to visit them all as often as we'd like.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 9th September 09:41
I think you need to look at it objectively.

You can't force your Mother to move, nor do you want to.

Ergo, she will either stay where she is or move closer to you. If it's the former, the reality of your situation is that you can't provide help at short notice or for long periods of time.
This will mean (and your Mum needs to be aware) that if she needs them, carers will need to be appointed, etc.

We had this a bit in our family - my Mum lived at the other end of the country from her Mum, couldn't move her and couldn't move closer to her.

We therefore had to source outside carers as my Grandmother's health deteriorated. For some, this is an uncomfortable reality.

We were lucky that we found great (private) carers but some don't like this task being outsourced outside of the family.

595Heaven

2,596 posts

85 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
NDA said:
I did this...

After my father died, I bought my mother a house in my village - a very beautiful detached cottage on a cricket green. It also meant she could sell the family home (also 200 miles away) at her leisure without being in any chain. The money from selling the family home would be useful for her as she had a free house to live in.

It was all a bit of a disaster. Firstly my brother helped himself (under a Power of Attorney that I didn't know existed) to the newly available cash.

My mother also wanted a new roof, new bathroom, new kitchen, new central heating, new carpets throughout etc All of which I did.

We entertained my mother every week at my house with Sunday lunches etc and listened to how much she missed her home town... so... she moved back! I lost about £250k on the house as the property market dipped and I'd spent a fortune making the house as she wanted it.

Trying to help parents, certainly in my case, was a total mess. A very expensive one too.
Ouch. Misuse of the Power of Attorney can be a criminal offence I think.

NDA

22,304 posts

232 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
595Heaven said:
Ouch. Misuse of the Power of Attorney can be a criminal offence I think.
It is.

ferret50

1,570 posts

16 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
One answer may be to sell both Mum's place and yours, looking to buy somewhere where mum would have an annexe so could be indipendent whilst just a door away from your families help.

But it is difficult to properly sort out family issues like these, we had my late father suffering with dementia living with us for a while, he was convinced he was living in his own property and at one point was demanding rent from us!

Gad-Westy

Original Poster:

15,069 posts

220 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
Gad-Westy said:
Muzzer79 said:
What are you mother's views on the subject?

Ultimately, if she is of sound mind and body, it's up to her.

My parents are not getting any younger and both (who divorced eons ago) live far away. My Dad is about to move even further away.

I'd like them to be more local, but I can't force them - it's their money and their life.
My mum seems quite on the fence about it. For all she is independent in many ways, she can very much struggle with bigger decisions so I would say there is no decision on this. So she's not dismissive of the idea at all but I don't feel she is really sold on it either and I don't really want to push too hard on it as, like you say, it's her decision. I worry that she perhaps is planning for the best and perhaps hopes she can live in her house in good health forever. I hope that happens too of course but I think balance of probability based on the last few years is that she won't have full independence.

I guess it's worth mentioning that there have been a couple of health scares in the last few years, where I have had to drop everything with no notice and head to her place to help. My wife ended up doing similar when I was out of the country once and had to get someone else to pick kids up from school and ultimately MIL had to come up to our place to look after them for a couple of days while she was away. These are not normal circumstances of course but it was a real reality check to us as to how difficult it was for us to provide help when it's needed.

Perhaps also of some relevance is that the other two surviving parents also live away from us. 100 miles and 200 miles. Both have partners and neither have really given us any scares so perhaps it's less of a concern a this stage but it is a factor in how generally be perhaps feel a little thinly spread when it comes to being able to visit them all as often as we'd like.

Edited by Gad-Westy on Monday 9th September 09:41
I think you need to look at it objectively.

You can't force your Mother to move, nor do you want to.

Ergo, she will either stay where she is or move closer to you. If it's the former, the reality of your situation is that you can't provide help at short notice or for long periods of time.
This will mean (and your Mum needs to be aware) that if she needs them, carers will need to be appointed, etc.

We had this a bit in our family - my Mum lived at the other end of the country from her Mum, couldn't move her and couldn't move closer to her.

We therefore had to source outside carers as my Grandmother's health deteriorated. For some, this is an uncomfortable reality.

We were lucky that we found great (private) carers but some don't like this task being outsourced outside of the family.
I think this post probably sums up things well and is the approach I should take. Stay hands off but make sure Mum knows all the possible outcomes. I'm sure she does anyway, she's not daft.

NDA's tale was quite an eye opener! And point noted about LPOA. It's something we've been trying to bang home with all of our parents.

Really appreciate all of the input folks. Thank you.

Skyedriver

18,856 posts

289 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
Don't move here away from friends and her weekly social circle. She'll regret it and resent you for it.

miniman

26,290 posts

269 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
My mother knows she needs to downsize, not least to try to manage IHT. I moved away (it’s all relative, it’s 2 hours on a good run) when I was 18 but my brother has always been local to her and recently moved back to the same village we grew up in and my mother still lives.

I got the somewhat barbed comment “I don’t want to miss another grandchild growing up” when I suggested moving closer to us.

Her mother moved closer to us when she was in her 70s essentially under duress and hated it despite the reality that if she had stayed where she was in Dartford she would have stood a good chance of being a crime statistic.

My mother’s primary issue seems to be parting company with a house full of sentimental belongings. I get it, I’m the same, it seems to be genetic.

It’s literally like history is repeating itself.

Per an earlier post - all you can do is to do what she wants. You can’t win otherwise.

Simon_GH

397 posts

87 months

Monday 9th September
quotequote all
How good is your mum with making new friends and joining social clubs etc? I think it’s important they have their own life. My mates parents relocated one of their parents who was around 90. She was healthy, outgoing and determined to establish a life of her own. It gave her a new lease of life to be fair - she had a social engagement most days of the week whether it was a golden oldies exercise class or bridge club!

Other people I know moved their mum into an annex, quickly destroying the parent / child relationship into one of dependent / carer.

GliderRider

2,527 posts

88 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Skyedriver said:
Don't move here away from friends and her weekly social circle. She'll regret it and resent you for it.
My thoughts exactly.

If I were the OP, I would assess his mother's interests and the accommodation she is in at present. Then consider what the alternatives are in here current area.

Factors to consider are:

  • Mother's interests - if she is a keen gardener then a flat with no garden would be out.
  • Location - is she near shops, surgery, bus stop, pharmacy.
  • Friends - where do the bulk of her friends live & is she likely to outlive them?
  • Ambience - Is it a nice area or is there anything that causes stress, e.g. busy roads, hanging out spot for trouble makers, lots of noise?
  • Current home - Is lots of ongoing maintenance/ renovation required? Only worry about structural/safety and maintenance chores, old people aren't generally bothered if its no longer fashionable.
  • Garden - Is it safe? For example, steps, slippery grass banks, low walls to fall against.
  • Longer term - If she was housebound and confined to one chair for most of the day, would the house be a nice place to be, or a prison cell? I.e. Nice views with activity going on, or a dull, North facing view of some bins and rubbish?
Having a look at more low maintenance and user-friendly properties close to where she is now would be a good start. She could easily live another twenty years, and a move into somewhere which is easier to keep clean tidy and maintained, whilst meeting her hobby and socialising needs is better to get now than when her current place is a millstone for you and her. It should also be a lot easier to get a smaller simpler place into a saleable condition quickly and at a lower price, would be affordable my a larger number of buyers, when the time comes.
From a selfish point of view, if you find somewhere significantly cheaper and she were to give you some or all of the balance now, it wouldn't be such an inheritance tax burden or get taken by the council to pay for care home fees.






Edited by GliderRider on Tuesday 10th September 23:20

Skeptisk

8,229 posts

116 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Most likely not an easy answer.

My mother sold up to release capital and then decided to move nearer to my nieces (also a bit closer to my sister) but she isn’t happy with the move as she hasn’t been able to make friends where she has moved to. Partly because she is younger for her age than her contemporaries (she is 88 and currently on a trip to Jordan to see Petra).

I think a key problem is that people don’t like making such big decisions and kick it down the road but the older they get the harder it is to move. Often a decision is forced on them by poor health/a health scare.

Randy Winkman

17,711 posts

196 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Skeptisk said:
Most likely not an easy answer.

My mother sold up to release capital and then decided to move nearer to my nieces (also a bit closer to my sister) but she isn’t happy with the move as she hasn’t been able to make friends where she has moved to. Partly because she is younger for her age than her contemporaries (she is 88 and currently on a trip to Jordan to see Petra).

I think a key problem is that people don’t like making such big decisions and kick it down the road but the older they get the harder it is to move. Often a decision is forced on them by poor health/a health scare.
The kicking it down the road point is one I've seen from my parents and that I'm very keen to avoid myself as I get older. I'm afraid that doesn't help find a solution for the OP though. Best wishes to them.

Gad-Westy

Original Poster:

15,069 posts

220 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
GliderRider said:
My thoughts exactly.

If I were the OP, I would assess his mother's interests and the accommodation she is in at present. Then consider what the alternatives are in here current area.

Factors to consider are:

  • Mother's interests - if she is a keen gardener then a flat with no garden would be out.
  • Location - is she near shops, surgery, bus stop, pharmacy.
  • Friends - where do the bulk of her friends live & is she likely to outlive them?
  • Ambience - Is it a nice area or is there anything that causes stress, e.g. busy roads, hanging out spot for trouble makers, lots of noise?
  • Current home - Is lots of ongoing maintenance/ renovation required? Only worry about structural/safety and maintenance chores, old people aren't generally bothered if its no longer fashionable.
  • Garden - Is it safe? For example, steps, slippery grass banks, low walls to fall against.
  • Longer term - If she was housebound and confined to one chair for most of the day, would the house be a nice place to be, or a prison cell? I.e. Nice views with activity going on, or a dull, North facing view of some bins and rubbish?
Having a look at more low maintenance and user-friendly properties close to where she is now would be a good start. She could easily live another twenty years, and a move into somewhere which is easier to keep clean tidy and maintained, whilst meeting her hobby and socialising needs is better to get now than when her current place is a millstone for you and her. It should also be a lot easier to get a smaller simpler place into a saleable condition quickly and at a lower price, would be affordable my a larger number of buyers, when the time comes.
From a selfish point of view, if you find somewhere significantly cheaper and she were to give you some or all of the balance now, it wouldn't be such an inheritance tax burden or get taken by the council to pay for care home fees.






Edited by GliderRider on Tuesday 10th September 23:20
Appreciate all this GliderRider though in all honesty her current living arrangements are absolutely fine. She lives in a modern home on a nice street. Has spent 30 years making it her own and it's lovely. Lots of neighbours who are friends. It's ideal. It's a house so stairs are a pain with hip issues but hopefully a replacement hip will address that. No need to worry too much on any of this. It's really only a matter of geography and trying to predict the future.

Gad-Westy

Original Poster:

15,069 posts

220 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Skeptisk said:
I think a key problem is that people don’t like making such big decisions and kick it down the road but the older they get the harder it is to move. Often a decision is forced on them by poor health/a health scare.
That's really my worry.

There are no circumstances at present that force this. No financial issues to consider (though she is absolutely obsessed with what inheritance tax bill she leaves behind) and her current home is great. It would be a lot easier if she was unhappy or her house was falling down!

I think as many have said though, I need to keep at arm's length a bit from this. My mother knows we'd be delighted if she moved closer. I think any more than that just has to come from her with no feeling of pressure from us.

Gad-Westy

Original Poster:

15,069 posts

220 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Simon_GH said:
How good is your mum with making new friends and joining social clubs etc? I think it’s important they have their own life. My mates parents relocated one of their parents who was around 90. She was healthy, outgoing and determined to establish a life of her own. It gave her a new lease of life to be fair - she had a social engagement most days of the week whether it was a golden oldies exercise class or bridge club!

Other people I know moved their mum into an annex, quickly destroying the parent / child relationship into one of dependent / carer.
She'd probably join the odd club etc but she isn't especially social. A lot of her current friendships have been cultivated over many years or during her working career. I would worry about her starting again I admit.

Had considered the Annex option. I think we'd drive each other mad. Love her to bits but our attitudes to day to day life are so different. There's also the fact that there are two other parents in the mix and I don't want to set a precedent!