Divorce / separation - Financial advice

Divorce / separation - Financial advice

Author
Discussion

Billy_Rosewood

Original Poster:

3,247 posts

171 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Posting on behalf of a close relative.. She and her partner have decided to seperate and to divorce.

Her partner is self employed and for the past few years has struggled to have a consistent income.. As a result has ended up in debt (full figure is unknown) and the house is in arrears.

They have 3 kids.

Her partner is offering to settle for half the house and a nominal maintenance figure that he will pay monthly.. We suspect he simply wants half the house in order to pay off his debt and move on.

She would then have to either buy him out (massive struggle financially) and bring up the 3 kids. She can potentially make ends meet but not buy him out.

However, I'm a little surprised he feels quite confident he is entitled to half of the house as well as her pension!?

Are there any hard and fast rules with this stuff? What would be a realistic counter offer? I would have assumed she would have to offer nothing but he would be obligated to pay the maintenance.??

They are both seeking legal advice, but there seems to be a large disparity in advice given the offer made by the partner?

Any advice appreciated!

ApOrbital

10,148 posts

125 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Don't get married wink

Jaska

755 posts

149 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Who will have the kids most of the time?

Boringvolvodriver

10,069 posts

50 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Does she work and have an income and how does that relate to what he earns? What are the sizes of the relative pensions? How long were they married, how old are the children?

What are his proposals for the custody of the children? 50 50 and is she happy with the proposals?

More information required to offer any advice at this point.

The custody issue will have a bearing on what is deemed a fair settlement - eg if 50 50, then there may be a case for a 50 50 split although generally speaking, if the mother is going to look after the children more, then a bigger share to her May be appropriate.

Billy_Rosewood

Original Poster:

3,247 posts

171 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Apologies, I know the details are quite sparse..

She will be looking after the kids, two are teens, the third is primary school age.

I think take home incomes were similar, but he is pretty much out of a job and has been for a while as well as accumulating debt.

If it makes a difference the house deposit was put down solely by her about 15 years ago.. Married for about the same amount of time.

lizardbrain

2,460 posts

44 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
I hear the money mostly flows towards wherever the kids are, all other things being equal, he has no chance of getting half

Monkeylegend

27,191 posts

238 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
As well intended as posters are on here the best piece of advice to give them is to seek professional advice from people who specialise in divorce law and not "experts" on a motoring forum.

Boringvolvodriver

10,069 posts

50 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
As well intended as posters are on here the best piece of advice to give them is to seek professional advice from people who specialise in divorce law and not "experts" on a motoring forum.
I think the OP did say they were getting legal advice to be fair and was just seeking some opinions, maybe to check out a general view.

Monkeylegend

27,191 posts

238 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Boringvolvodriver said:
Monkeylegend said:
As well intended as posters are on here the best piece of advice to give them is to seek professional advice from people who specialise in divorce law and not "experts" on a motoring forum.
I think the OP did say they were getting legal advice to be fair and was just seeking some opinions, maybe to check out a general view.
Opinions are like a holes as they say, and most will bear no resemblance to the reality of what will happen, just what posters think or would want to happen depending on their prejudices.

At least we shouldn't get into snakes with tits on this one smile

Mazinbrum

992 posts

185 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
ApOrbital said:
Don't get married wink
Costs in IHT though.

Boringvolvodriver

10,069 posts

50 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Billy_Rosewood said:
Apologies, I know the details are quite sparse..

She will be looking after the kids, two are teens, the third is primary school age.

I think take home incomes were similar, but he is pretty much out of a job and has been for a while as well as accumulating debt.

If it makes a difference the house deposit was put down solely by her about 15 years ago.. Married for about the same amount of time.
If that is the case, then I would be of the opinion that a 50% split of the assets is something that would not be deemed fair. Perhaps a greater share to her.

I know I was advised that if a case goes to court, then the judge will tend look to give more to the person looking after the kids and that the other factor is the amount of equity available in the house.

I gave my ex virtually all of the house although that meant that my payment for looking after the children (16 and 14) was very much reduced.

Tango13

8,918 posts

183 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Mazinbrum said:
ApOrbital said:
Don't get married wink
Costs in IHT though.
Just do a Ken Dodd at the last minute.



Boringvolvodriver

10,069 posts

50 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
Opinions are like a holes as they say, and most will bear no resemblance to the reality of what will happen, just what posters think or would want to happen depending on their prejudices.

At least we shouldn't get into snakes with tits on this one smile
Fair point.

Sheepshanks

34,970 posts

126 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Be interesting to hear how it pans out - a female friend of ours is in a similar position except she earns a very decent salary.

interstellar

3,778 posts

153 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Even if he has to pay x per month as she has the kids, getting it monthly without a lot of pain and hassle is another thing if he has no job.

With 3 kids and his circumstances it will be very messy I would think unfortunately.

wiggy001

6,566 posts

278 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
Having just been through this, a couple of points that need to be clarified.

Child Maintenance (monthly payments for the children) are completely separate to the financial settlement that comes from a divorce. In fact the courts don’t deal with child maintenance, the CMS do.

The starting point for division of assets (property and pension) is 50:50 for a marriage if that length, however the actual settlement here will be based on need. If one parent will have full care of the children and the other nearly visits, takes them out for day trips and holidays but never has them overnight then that parent won’t be considered to have the same financial need as the other (ie they don’t need a x bedroom house if it is just them). The courts primarily look at need in relation to the children as above but then will factor in mortgage raising capacity of each party, debts and (a way down the list) lifestyle needs of both.

Child Maintenance would be calculated separately by the CMS based on whether the children live with one partner or both equally and whether the non resident parent has the children overnight at all (and therefore is sharing some of the cost of raising the children). There is an inline calculator for this to give some level of guidance but each case is assessed in its merits.

Also worth noting that child benefit can only be paid to one parent and the amount of nights the children are with each parent has no effect on which parent can receive the money, but the money could be factored into any CMS assessment.

But as already mentioned, get proper legal advice and where possible resolve the situation via mediation than through the courts.

theboss

7,117 posts

226 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
The fallacy on these threads is that people tend to assume that so and so is going to "get this" and "be awarded that" and that everything is going to be set out in great detail by a judge during some grand day out in court.

The reality is this only really happens when the divorcing parties get bogged down in contested financial proceedings and/or children's arrangements and like setting fire to tens of thousands of pounds in the process. It does happen but most people seem to come to the realisation that unless they want to burn every bit of equity they might otherwise have to share in an average family home, they have to end up coming to a negotiating table and agreeing like reasonable adults and then have whatever agreement is reached ordained by the court.

Realistically if the woman tends to be the day-to-day caregiver for any children and that is likely to continue, she is in a good position to argue that she should continue to reside in the house with the children and that some arrangement is made to buy him out, but (1) that could end up being less than 50% and (2) it might be reasonable that this only happens when the youngest kid becomes an adult.

My mate is going through something similar at the moment, they have lived together under the same roof for over a year now and have only just come to the position where they are getting to the nitty gritty, and she has realised she's not going to get 70% of the house and a passive income for life, and he's realised he's probably going to have to buy her out and accept that the split is slightly in her favour e.g. 45/55 instead of 50/50

At first they think any such concession is unfathomable and refuse to budge from their position, but eventually most reasonable people manage to sort it out.

ThingsBehindTheSun

1,225 posts

38 months

Monday 2nd September
quotequote all
theboss said:
Realistically if the woman tends to be the day-to-day caregiver for any children and that is likely to continue, she is in a good position to argue that she should continue to reside in the house with the children and that some arrangement is made to buy him out, but (1) that could end up being less than 50% and (2) it might be reasonable that this only happens when the youngest kid becomes an adult.
This, the housing needs of the children will always be put ahead of the adults. If she can't buy him out then she will probably be able to stay in the house until the youngest is an adult. No idea how he will force her to sell when this happens though.

Millions of men are in this position where they cannot afford to buy a house as they are on the mortgage for the marital home. If it does eventually sell they are then too old to get a mortgage.

I thank my lucky stars every day that my ex wife's new husband bought be out of the house and off the mortgage. I would still be renting at 50 otherwise.

Mazinbrum

992 posts

185 months

Tuesday 3rd September
quotequote all
ApOrbital said:
Don't get married wink
Costs in IHT though.

Billy_Rosewood

Original Poster:

3,247 posts

171 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice all.. Very very insightful..

Ofcourse I don't have all the details in the situation, but it's already helped my understanding as I thought the husband/father was entitled to less than it seems he is.

Thanks wiggy and theboss for taking the time to share that info smile