Greenwashing in Construction

Greenwashing in Construction

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smithyithy

Original Poster:

7,462 posts

125 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
Mods: to stay in line with forum rules, this isn't a survey and I won't be posting any links or similar on the forum, this is just a general discussion about the topic.

As mentioned in the previous thread, I'm doing a dissertation on greenwashing in construction, there were some good replies on here about the topic previously and I'm sure plenty of forum members with more industry experience and knowledge than myself..

Does anyone have any thoughts on the subject? I'm in civils / highways currently and I wouldn't say it's noticeably present.. I think what is potentially present is a dilution of sustainability through supply chains and subcontractors.

From the reading I've been doing on the subject though of published papers and journals, there's some interesting cases for it and it's a much bigger topic than I'd first realised.

Edited by smithyithy on Friday 30th August 16:29

Lotobear

7,111 posts

135 months

Friday 30th August
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...define what you mean by 'Greenwashing' in this context.

It's an oft used, and evidently trendy, term but I honestly don't know what it means.

smithyithy

Original Poster:

7,462 posts

125 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
The definition I'm using in this case is "the process of conveying a false impression or misleading information about how a company’s products are environmentally sound”

But that can also extend to processes as well as products, and 'misleading' can be defined in many ways.

A good example I found discussed, was in one of the papers I read that focused on Sustainable Development Goals, and how companies (particularly larger ones) can select SDGs that are easy to achieve or evidenced by what the company is already doing right, rather than based on areas where the company needs to improve.. So it'd be like a car that achieves 100mpg, but puts out the equivalent of 300g CO2 - all the focus and positive spin would be on the economy, not the emissions laugh

But for context this is a dissertation module for a degree apprenticeship, it's not a doctorate or anything on that level. And my report isn't necessarily saying "greenwashing is a big real serious issue and here's my proof!" - it's more like "this research is looking into the scale and scope of greenwashing, and the causes and effects of such behaviours in the industry". My goal is to research those factors and produce a report about it. I just think it's an interesting topic to look into, not pointing any fingers, as such.

Spare tyre

10,333 posts

137 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
I work with an it company from time to time, they went a bit green, green this green that

I asked what were they actually doing, they were getting their plastic cups from somewhere else and recycling their cardboard

Happy days

StevieBee

13,545 posts

262 months

Friday 30th August
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My daughter is the Environmental Manager for one of the UK's largest construction firms. Drop me an email and I'll connect you.

And I strongly suspect the paper you read on the SDGs is flawed or missing some context.

jules_s

4,540 posts

240 months

Friday 30th August
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StevieBee said:
My daughter is the Environmental Manager for one of the UK's largest construction firms. Drop me an email and I'll connect you.

And I strongly suspect the paper you read on the SDGs is flawed or missing some context.
Yep,

I said the same in the deleted thread.

IME the big Tier One contractors take it all very seriously, pretty much everything is specified with Embodied carbon in mind.

Chicken Chaser

8,135 posts

231 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?

FMOB

1,994 posts

19 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
Chicken Chaser said:
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?
Smoke and mirrors probably such as just focusing on the added carbon bit from the construction and ignoring the imported carbon footprint of the materials themselves.

jules_s

4,540 posts

240 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
FMOB said:
Chicken Chaser said:
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?
Smoke and mirrors probably such as just focusing on the added carbon bit from the construction and ignoring the imported carbon footprint of the materials themselves.
Nope...

In simple terms

Steel - use arc furnace steel - which also uses a lot of re-cycled material

Concrete - use low carbon concrete which replace cement (upto 85% less EC if you believe the blurb)

si_xsi

1,230 posts

202 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
Chicken Chaser said:
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?
Construction and property are one of the worst contributors to Carbon footprint. Developers can do all sorts of things to try and offset e.g

Travel plans, bike racks, living green roof gardens or external elevations, super thick glass for thermal efficiency, modern heating and cooling systems, energy saving electricity fixtures and fittings, and water saving measures, Bird boxes etc. Tick box exercise. And some money to the local authority to 'satisfy' planning requirements.

Evanivitch

22,055 posts

129 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
HVO - Hydrogenerated Vegetable Oil

Using virgin Vegetable oil is a con because the inputs to grow oil crops are typically quite high and often contaminate with imports. Using waste Vegetable oil simply doesn't scale because efforts should be made to reduce waste, not increase the supply as a potentially valuable feedstock.

The hydrogen is from gas I.e. grey hydrogen.

All HVO suppliers will sell it as a direct diesel replacement and tell you it's up to 90% lower emissions. There is no certification. No traceability. It's a complete greenwash so minimum effort to achieve compliance.

Some government and private organisations are already cracking down on it.

Scarletpimpofnel

915 posts

25 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
si_xsi said:
Chicken Chaser said:
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?
Construction and property are one of the worst contributors to Carbon footprint. Developers can do all sorts of things to try and offset e.g

Travel plans, bike racks, living green roof gardens or external elevations, super thick glass for thermal efficiency, modern heating and cooling systems, energy saving electricity fixtures and fittings, and water saving measures, Bird boxes etc. Tick box exercise. And some money to the local authority to 'satisfy' planning requirements.
Why doesn't every new house come with a fully solar pannelled roof instead of the "lazy" option of us having acres of farm land under solar panels? I'm all for green energy but also believe we should eb food and energy independent. If the construction industry really wanted to be green why isn't every building roofed in solar panels?

T1547

1,145 posts

141 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
I’m UK Head of Specification for a multi-billion £ turnover global construction products company. This is certainly an interesting topic and one I could talk about extensively (but won’t just for brevity and feeling pretty knackered on a Friday evening).

If I get chance tomorrow I’ll try and put down a few points from a manufacturer’s perspective.

Or if you’re London/SE based more than happy to meet for a chat, we have a Central London showroom if you wanted to drop in.

I’m guessing you’re very familiar with EPD’s and their content…

nikaiyo2

5,023 posts

202 months

Friday 30th August
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Greenwashing in construction?

Elements of building regs are “greenwashing.”

Look at document L promoting passive heat gain in replacement windows/ doors and document O reducing it in new build.
We make doors with a u value of 1.0 then cut a hole through it so some antique methods of communication can be used.

blueg33

38,486 posts

231 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
When we started doing our light gauge steel MMC houses we measured CO2 in detail right down to every hand tool.

We could demonstrate lifetime net zero.

I would be interested to know if people think Greencore Homes can do what they say.

si_xsi

1,230 posts

202 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
Scarletpimpofnel said:
Why doesn't every new house come with a fully solar pannelled roof instead of the "lazy" option of us having acres of farm land under solar panels? I'm all for green energy but also believe we should eb food and energy independent. If the construction industry really wanted to be green why isn't every building roofed in solar panels?
I'm not sure, my expertise is more focused around commercial property but imagine it has a lot to do with cost and profit for the developer. It wouldn't be too hard to do, in Australia every new house and existing over a certain size has to be fitted with a water harvesting or storage tank.

One of the largest hurdles facing new commercial development is availability of power from national grid so the more that can be done domestically and commercially to store and generate power, the better.

blueg33

38,486 posts

231 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
Scarletpimpofnel said:
Why doesn't every new house come with a fully solar pannelled roof instead of the "lazy" option of us having acres of farm land under solar panels? I'm all for green energy but also believe we should eb food and energy independent. If the construction industry really wanted to be green why isn't every building roofed in solar panels?
Orientation is a factor as is planning

PomBstard

7,101 posts

249 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
Note that linear infrastructure (road, rail, power for example) have different challenges to sustainability, esp if tunneling is involved, compared to single site developments. You mentioned being involved in highways - what are you seeing (or not, as the case maybe) in that industry?

shirt

23,433 posts

208 months

Friday 30th August
quotequote all
jules_s said:
FMOB said:
Chicken Chaser said:
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?
Smoke and mirrors probably such as just focusing on the added carbon bit from the construction and ignoring the imported carbon footprint of the materials themselves.
Nope...

In simple terms

Steel - use arc furnace steel - which also uses a lot of re-cycled material

Concrete - use low carbon concrete which replace cement (upto 85% less EC if you believe the blurb)
Cemex have been experimenting with solar clinker production which is very believable, if not easily scalable.


StevieBee

13,545 posts

262 months

Saturday 31st August
quotequote all
Chicken Chaser said:
This is from a complete laymen's position but how does a company erecting a block of apartments (like the many going up in Manchester and Leeds) made of steel and concrete get around the carbon footprint?
It's not about getting around it. It's about accounting for it in order that impacts can be offset and that these measures are accountable and verifiable.

And it's not just about carbon. Biodiversity is as important so where a development displaces biodiversity, that biodiversity must be replaced elsewhere.