Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
okgo said:
Zolvaro said:
The irony here is that somebody was complaining earlier in the thread that state school kids were stealing private school kids places, when in fact it's the reverse.
Why have you put your kids into private school? Seems a lot of noise you’re making to completely undermine your points?Edited by Zolvaro on Tuesday 2nd July 14:38
How have I undermined my own points? I said private school kids are more likely to get into Oxbridge which they are, and it seems they also pretending to be state school kids for a bit to get an even bigger share of the places.
Zolvaro said:
Unlike you I care about things that aren't in my little bubble.
How have I undermined my own points? I said private school kids are more likely to get into Oxbridge which they are, and it seems they also pretending to be state school kids for a bit to get an even bigger share of the places.
So why add to the ‘problem’ - just use state schools?How have I undermined my own points? I said private school kids are more likely to get into Oxbridge which they are, and it seems they also pretending to be state school kids for a bit to get an even bigger share of the places.
okgo said:
Zolvaro said:
Unlike you I care about things that aren't in my little bubble.
How have I undermined my own points? I said private school kids are more likely to get into Oxbridge which they are, and it seems they also pretending to be state school kids for a bit to get an even bigger share of the places.
So why add to the ‘problem’ - just use state schools?How have I undermined my own points? I said private school kids are more likely to get into Oxbridge which they are, and it seems they also pretending to be state school kids for a bit to get an even bigger share of the places.
Cheburator mk2 said:
A small observation if I may and a couple of questions too.
I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
Are ethnic minorities smarter? Or is it the simple truth, that quite a few people like me - an immigrant - are "hungrier" and perhaps care more about educating their kids, and do their best to foster a culture at home, where hard work and determination is constantly encouraged? Something doesn't add up here - the closet commies on this thread talk about disadvantaged children vs their private school counterparts. Yet, it's children from a background which makes it harder to achieve in life, who are successful...
I am totally with Donkey Apple - I would not mind the extra tax, if the root cause of the problem was addressed with the income from it, instead of making hollow good sounding slogans and just trying to fill a bottomless barrel.
My old prep school in NW London has been predominantly Hindu Indian for years. Was quite Jewish, Irish and East African Indian when I was there and this typically reflects who is migrating north west out of central London as they become more affluent as well as which people are prizing education for their children over flash cars, holidays and bigger houses etc. I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
Are ethnic minorities smarter? Or is it the simple truth, that quite a few people like me - an immigrant - are "hungrier" and perhaps care more about educating their kids, and do their best to foster a culture at home, where hard work and determination is constantly encouraged? Something doesn't add up here - the closet commies on this thread talk about disadvantaged children vs their private school counterparts. Yet, it's children from a background which makes it harder to achieve in life, who are successful...
I am totally with Donkey Apple - I would not mind the extra tax, if the root cause of the problem was addressed with the income from it, instead of making hollow good sounding slogans and just trying to fill a bottomless barrel.
What this has meant is that your mates parents have gone from being immensely proud of their children all becoming accountants, dentists, lawyers and bankers and telling you all about it to now b
hing that their kids don't want to take over the family corner shops, petrol stations, clothing stores, builders and restaurants. 
My senior school is also now quite Indian as it no longer offers boarding and many of the successful local families are of Indian heritage having slowly moved further out of London while being followed by the next generation of successful immigrants who prize hard work and getting the best for their children over other things in life.
A contentious aspect being that it is only certain immigrant groups who follow this path while others seem to opt for either going nowhere and blaming others or painting the tops of railings gold and renting Mercs.
Cheburator mk2 said:
A small observation if I may and a couple of questions too.
I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
Are ethnic minorities smarter? Or is it the simple truth, that quite a few people like me - an immigrant - are "hungrier" and perhaps care more about educating their kids, and do their best to foster a culture at home, where hard work and determination is constantly encouraged? Something doesn't add up here - the closet commies on this thread talk about disadvantaged children vs their private school counterparts. Yet, it's children from a background which makes it harder to achieve in life, who are successful...
I am totally with Donkey Apple - I would not mind the extra tax, if the root cause of the problem was addressed with the income from it, instead of making hollow good sounding slogans and just trying to fill a bottomless barrel.
St Olaves has it's own entry requirements over and above every other grammar school in the wider vicinity. I'm only aware of one of my son's friends who even applied (and he got full marks in his 11 plus) - the rest all applied to grammar schools (or grammar streams of other schools) which only required them to pass the 11 plus. My son went to one of these other schools as he preferred it - he is considering applying to go to St Olaves for his 6th form so we'll see.I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
Are ethnic minorities smarter? Or is it the simple truth, that quite a few people like me - an immigrant - are "hungrier" and perhaps care more about educating their kids, and do their best to foster a culture at home, where hard work and determination is constantly encouraged? Something doesn't add up here - the closet commies on this thread talk about disadvantaged children vs their private school counterparts. Yet, it's children from a background which makes it harder to achieve in life, who are successful...
I am totally with Donkey Apple - I would not mind the extra tax, if the root cause of the problem was addressed with the income from it, instead of making hollow good sounding slogans and just trying to fill a bottomless barrel.
St Olaves will absolutely not have a school population that bears any resemblance to the local population and kids will travel from quite some distance to attend.
markh1973 said:
St Olaves has it's own entry requirements over and above every other grammar school in the wider vicinity. I'm only aware of one of my son's friends who even applied (and he got full marks in his 11 plus) - the rest all applied to grammar schools (or grammar streams of other schools) which only required them to pass the 11 plus. My son went to one of these other schools as he preferred it - he is considering applying to go to St Olaves for his 6th form so we'll see.
St Olaves will absolutely not have a school population that bears any resemblance to the local population and kids will travel from quite some distance to attend.
I am well aware of the above - am quite thick according to one of the forum experts here, but I am not THAT bad. I still insist, that all things being equal, the composition of St Olave’s and Newstead Woods is quite telling…St Olaves will absolutely not have a school population that bears any resemblance to the local population and kids will travel from quite some distance to attend.
markh1973 said:
Cheburator mk2 said:
A small observation if I may and a couple of questions too.
I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
Are ethnic minorities smarter? Or is it the simple truth, that quite a few people like me - an immigrant - are "hungrier" and perhaps care more about educating their kids, and do their best to foster a culture at home, where hard work and determination is constantly encouraged? Something doesn't add up here - the closet commies on this thread talk about disadvantaged children vs their private school counterparts. Yet, it's children from a background which makes it harder to achieve in life, who are successful...
I am totally with Donkey Apple - I would not mind the extra tax, if the root cause of the problem was addressed with the income from it, instead of making hollow good sounding slogans and just trying to fill a bottomless barrel.
St Olaves has it's own entry requirements over and above every other grammar school in the wider vicinity. I'm only aware of one of my son's friends who even applied (and he got full marks in his 11 plus) - the rest all applied to grammar schools (or grammar streams of other schools) which only required them to pass the 11 plus. My son went to one of these other schools as he preferred it - he is considering applying to go to St Olaves for his 6th form so we'll see.I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
Are ethnic minorities smarter? Or is it the simple truth, that quite a few people like me - an immigrant - are "hungrier" and perhaps care more about educating their kids, and do their best to foster a culture at home, where hard work and determination is constantly encouraged? Something doesn't add up here - the closet commies on this thread talk about disadvantaged children vs their private school counterparts. Yet, it's children from a background which makes it harder to achieve in life, who are successful...
I am totally with Donkey Apple - I would not mind the extra tax, if the root cause of the problem was addressed with the income from it, instead of making hollow good sounding slogans and just trying to fill a bottomless barrel.
St Olaves will absolutely not have a school population that bears any resemblance to the local population and kids will travel from quite some distance to attend.
Based on my observations on the day of the entrance exam, the majority of candidates were asian. I don’t have a problem with that as i’m asian too.
I was surprised he got in given the amount of competition but he is a bright kid.
However, I ended up declining the place and sent him to a private school instead, partly due to it being easier to get to and also because I valued a more diverse student mix.
My point being that asian families do take education more seriously and therefore make sacrifices, work 2 or 3 jobs to put the kids through it.
The labour policy appeals to those who look at the ‘privilege’ but don’t look at the sacrifice/priorities.
My youngest son is currently at a state primary (as was my eldest before). Whereas my youngest is doing a little bit of prep for his 11+ exams every week, his classmates are doing all nighters on Roblox and Fortnite eventually going to sleep at 5am on the weekends. They are 9 years old. Some parents don’t talk to us because they think we are traitors for having sent our eldest to private school but are happy with their 9 year olds having a new iphone and not keeping tab on their schoolwork/development/sleep routines.
Another way of looking at it is, if you had a £2m house there will always be people who are jealous. They look at it at face value and if you offered it to them for free they would take it.
But if you offered it to them along with your mortgage (without telling them how much your mortgage is) would they then be so keen on it? You could have a tiny mortgage and comfortably living in the house or could be in negative equity.
But unfortunately society these days judges people at face value based on material items and no understanding of what is happening behind the scenes.
It really is a sad state of affairs and this policy just divides society further.
WindyCommon said:
Sadly I suspect it is what Keir Starmer’s government will be remembered for.
Err, it really won't be given how relatively few actual people it impacts.f
king us all up the arse with tax increases, not making anything better, plenty of sleaze just because law of averages with a lot of MPs, making some significantly more stupid decisions, yes. That a small number of parents may pay a bit more for something they choose to do, noise.Fat hippo said:
My son was offered a place at a ‘super selective’ school in Sutton (was number 1 grammar school according to The Times based on results), and, as you can imagine the results are good as they select the kids who perform best on the 11+ entrance exam.
Based on my observations on the day of the entrance exam, the majority of candidates were asian. I don’t have a problem with that as i’m asian too.
I was surprised he got in given the amount of competition but he is a bright kid.
However, I ended up declining the place and sent him to a private school instead, partly due to it being easier to get to and also because I valued a more diverse student mix.
My point being that asian families do take education more seriously and therefore make sacrifices, work 2 or 3 jobs to put the kids through it.
The labour policy appeals to those who look at the ‘privilege’ but don’t look at the sacrifice/priorities.
My youngest son is currently at a state primary (as was my eldest before). Whereas my youngest is doing a little bit of prep for his 11+ exams every week, his classmates are doing all nighters on Roblox and Fortnite eventually going to sleep at 5am on the weekends. They are 9 years old. Some parents don’t talk to us because they think we are traitors for having sent our eldest to private school but are happy with their 9 year olds having a new iphone and not keeping tab on their schoolwork/development/sleep routines.
Another way of looking at it is, if you had a £2m house there will always be people who are jealous. They look at it at face value and if you offered it to them for free they would take it.
But if you offered it to them along with your mortgage (without telling them how much your mortgage is) would they then be so keen on it? You could have a tiny mortgage and comfortably living in the house or could be in negative equity.
But unfortunately society these days judges people at face value based on material items and no understanding of what is happening behind the scenes.
It really is a sad state of affairs and this policy just divides society further.
They might not want your house when they learn about the cost but that won't change them not wanting you to have it either. Based on my observations on the day of the entrance exam, the majority of candidates were asian. I don’t have a problem with that as i’m asian too.
I was surprised he got in given the amount of competition but he is a bright kid.
However, I ended up declining the place and sent him to a private school instead, partly due to it being easier to get to and also because I valued a more diverse student mix.
My point being that asian families do take education more seriously and therefore make sacrifices, work 2 or 3 jobs to put the kids through it.
The labour policy appeals to those who look at the ‘privilege’ but don’t look at the sacrifice/priorities.
My youngest son is currently at a state primary (as was my eldest before). Whereas my youngest is doing a little bit of prep for his 11+ exams every week, his classmates are doing all nighters on Roblox and Fortnite eventually going to sleep at 5am on the weekends. They are 9 years old. Some parents don’t talk to us because they think we are traitors for having sent our eldest to private school but are happy with their 9 year olds having a new iphone and not keeping tab on their schoolwork/development/sleep routines.
Another way of looking at it is, if you had a £2m house there will always be people who are jealous. They look at it at face value and if you offered it to them for free they would take it.
But if you offered it to them along with your mortgage (without telling them how much your mortgage is) would they then be so keen on it? You could have a tiny mortgage and comfortably living in the house or could be in negative equity.
But unfortunately society these days judges people at face value based on material items and no understanding of what is happening behind the scenes.
It really is a sad state of affairs and this policy just divides society further.
Cheburator mk2 said:
I could not help but notice something on a recent visit to an open day at the top Grammar school in the SE (I think they are easily top 5 in the country too). I would say more than 60% of the boys were the children of first or second generation non-white parents. Ethnic minorities in the SE are what, 10%, ok, let's make them 15%, let's go even bigger, after all this school does get students from all of Kent, make non-whites 25% of the population. The same composition of students applies to the sister all girls grammar school, where a friend's daughter is in year 7 at the moment. So what gives?
I usually see a group of students on my way to work in the morning, probably one of the Grammar schools you mention. Not sure about the ethnicity but they are always studying, improvising on their commute. On my way back home, there is a similar age group get in from Lewisham, one of the state schools, the difference between behaviours is just phenomenal. DonkeyApple said:
Fat hippo said:
My son was offered a place at a ‘super selective’ school in Sutton (was number 1 grammar school according to The Times based on results), and, as you can imagine the results are good as they select the kids who perform best on the 11+ entrance exam.
Based on my observations on the day of the entrance exam, the majority of candidates were asian. I don’t have a problem with that as i’m asian too.
I was surprised he got in given the amount of competition but he is a bright kid.
However, I ended up declining the place and sent him to a private school instead, partly due to it being easier to get to and also because I valued a more diverse student mix.
My point being that asian families do take education more seriously and therefore make sacrifices, work 2 or 3 jobs to put the kids through it.
The labour policy appeals to those who look at the ‘privilege’ but don’t look at the sacrifice/priorities.
My youngest son is currently at a state primary (as was my eldest before). Whereas my youngest is doing a little bit of prep for his 11+ exams every week, his classmates are doing all nighters on Roblox and Fortnite eventually going to sleep at 5am on the weekends. They are 9 years old. Some parents don’t talk to us because they think we are traitors for having sent our eldest to private school but are happy with their 9 year olds having a new iphone and not keeping tab on their schoolwork/development/sleep routines.
Another way of looking at it is, if you had a £2m house there will always be people who are jealous. They look at it at face value and if you offered it to them for free they would take it.
But if you offered it to them along with your mortgage (without telling them how much your mortgage is) would they then be so keen on it? You could have a tiny mortgage and comfortably living in the house or could be in negative equity.
But unfortunately society these days judges people at face value based on material items and no understanding of what is happening behind the scenes.
It really is a sad state of affairs and this policy just divides society further.
They might not want your house when they learn about the cost but that won't change them not wanting you to have it either. Based on my observations on the day of the entrance exam, the majority of candidates were asian. I don’t have a problem with that as i’m asian too.
I was surprised he got in given the amount of competition but he is a bright kid.
However, I ended up declining the place and sent him to a private school instead, partly due to it being easier to get to and also because I valued a more diverse student mix.
My point being that asian families do take education more seriously and therefore make sacrifices, work 2 or 3 jobs to put the kids through it.
The labour policy appeals to those who look at the ‘privilege’ but don’t look at the sacrifice/priorities.
My youngest son is currently at a state primary (as was my eldest before). Whereas my youngest is doing a little bit of prep for his 11+ exams every week, his classmates are doing all nighters on Roblox and Fortnite eventually going to sleep at 5am on the weekends. They are 9 years old. Some parents don’t talk to us because they think we are traitors for having sent our eldest to private school but are happy with their 9 year olds having a new iphone and not keeping tab on their schoolwork/development/sleep routines.
Another way of looking at it is, if you had a £2m house there will always be people who are jealous. They look at it at face value and if you offered it to them for free they would take it.
But if you offered it to them along with your mortgage (without telling them how much your mortgage is) would they then be so keen on it? You could have a tiny mortgage and comfortably living in the house or could be in negative equity.
But unfortunately society these days judges people at face value based on material items and no understanding of what is happening behind the scenes.
It really is a sad state of affairs and this policy just divides society further.
okgo said:
Letter from school saying they’ll absorb a proportion of the VAT.
Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
One would hope that a cohort that contains some of the finest educational establishments on the planet and an alumni of some of the greatest legal minds and PR specialists could at least put up a fair debate. Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
DonkeyApple said:
okgo said:
Letter from school saying they’ll absorb a proportion of the VAT.
Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
One would hope that a cohort that contains some of the finest educational establishments on the planet and an alumni of some of the greatest legal minds and PR specialists could at least put up a fair debate. Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
Louis Balfour said:
DonkeyApple said:
okgo said:
Letter from school saying they’ll absorb a proportion of the VAT.
Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
One would hope that a cohort that contains some of the finest educational establishments on the planet and an alumni of some of the greatest legal minds and PR specialists could at least put up a fair debate. Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
https://labour.org.uk/change/first-steps-for-chang...
Zolvaro said:
Louis Balfour said:
DonkeyApple said:
okgo said:
Letter from school saying they’ll absorb a proportion of the VAT.
Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
One would hope that a cohort that contains some of the finest educational establishments on the planet and an alumni of some of the greatest legal minds and PR specialists could at least put up a fair debate. Also said it will know how it can be challenged legally as soon as there is a draft legislation.
https://labour.org.uk/change/first-steps-for-chang...
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