Homelessness

[xx99xx]

MattsCar said:

That is fair enough and I can understand why people might disagree, but, if someone is willing to work, there aren't many reasons why they should be homeless.

The OP's original post was this, which i responded to...

”Just wondered your thoughts on it. We are not talking people with addiction problems etc just normal people who due to the cost of living, divorce, mental health etc, massively changing, not ticking boxes for social help, usually single males,”

In all honesty, other than serious mental health struggles (which are valid and as I have said before, I hope those in that situation society is setup to help those that need it) I can't see any reason why anything else in the list above, would stop someone from working and supporting themselves in accommodation?

Cost of living crisis? Maybe live within your means?

Divorce? When has being divorced stopped a person from working?

My view is simplistic, but I genuinely can't see any reason, other than what I have mentioned above, why anyone would be homeless if they are willing to work and live within their means.

Someone previously mentioned that it is nigh on impossible to get a job as you can't get an address/ can't get a bank account, which if true, would be an issue.

ETA Please note that this is my view. There are a lot more knowledgeable people out there who know a lot more about this than me and I am happy to accept that my view might not be correct, so if anyone wants to school me and change my mind go ahead!

Edited by MattsCar on Wednesday 3rd July 19:34

RE: divorce....you may be working, even in a decent job, but if you have to pay for your ex Mrs house as well as your own, plus kids etc, you might not be able to afford your own house.

Unrelated, there is an old bloke local to us who has been living in a disused bus shelter for about 15 years. He is known to the council but he refuses help. People give him food but he tells them to FRO and would prefer booze if they are to bring him anything. At Xmas he got given a few slabs of lager and he was happy as Larry.

[BoRED S2upid]

Spare tyre said:

croyde said:

My daughter is currently homeless, 200 miles up north. She has a job, minimum wage but in order to keep costs down she was living in a student house with 7 others. Awful for her as they are up partying all the time whilst she needs sleep.

Contract ended 2 weeks ago and she and a friend have spent months looking for a 2 bed to rent but so are loads of other people.

The hotel she works for has given her a room for a few days then she has a pet sitting gig so can sleep there for a couple of weeks.

Then what.

She's 25. When I was her age rent was not a problem even down here in London.

She's welcome to come down and move in with me but what about her life, friends and job.

There has too be many more these days who have jobs but can't find anywhere to live.

I myself know that if my landlord decides to stiff me with a rent increase, I could well be in a similar situation. I'm 61.

Bless her, what has gone wrong when a youngster who is hard working and wants to progress can’t

This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.

Croyde, I hope things improve for her

Which town croyde?

[croyde]

BoRED S2upid said:

Spare tyre said:

croyde said:

My daughter is currently homeless, 200 miles up north. She has a job, minimum wage but in order to keep costs down she was living in a student house with 7 others. Awful for her as they are up partying all the time whilst she needs sleep.

Contract ended 2 weeks ago and she and a friend have spent months looking for a 2 bed to rent but so are loads of other people.

The hotel she works for has given her a room for a few days then she has a pet sitting gig so can sleep there for a couple of weeks.

Then what.

She's 25. When I was her age rent was not a problem even down here in London.

She's welcome to come down and move in with me but what about her life, friends and job.

There has too be many more these days who have jobs but can't find anywhere to live.

I myself know that if my landlord decides to stiff me with a rent increase, I could well be in a similar situation. I'm 61.

Bless her, what has gone wrong when a youngster who is hard working and wants to progress can’t

This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.

Croyde, I hope things improve for her

Which town croyde?

Liverpool.

Seems they have the same problems with tenants trying to rent as we have down here in London, and not much cheaper too.

Loads at every viewing and plenty willing to offer over the asking price.

Both her and her friend work in hotels with finishes in the early hours so don't want to be too far out as they can't afford taxis.

Like many in hospitality, they are on 16 hour contracts, never know what hours they are doing so can't do a second job. OK, when the hotels are busy, they can get 40 hours, but not often.

Real eye opener to me to find out that many young people are on these 16 hour contracts.

[Unreal]

98elise said:

StevieBee said:

Over the years, I've worked for and with various organisations that seek to address this issue.

What I've learnt is that there is absolutely no institutional driven need for anyone in the UK to sleep rough. If you lost absolutely everything right now, there is a bed, a warm meal, shower, etc for you this evening and for as long as you need. Plus, all the support you need to get back on your feet.

The government could spend £1b building new shelters, employing more staff and running more outreach yet there would still be people sleeping on the streets.

The reasons are hugely complex and far from being singular; addiction, mental health, etc... Almost always, the common denominator as being the root cause is family. What should be the ultimate safety net, for many simply does not exist. Sometimes through unfortunate circumstance, sometimes through deliberate abandonment.

This.

Everyone is entitled to the same help. Your local council have to help you, and everyone can get housing benefit.

As a single man you're not going to be given your own property though. That's where things start to get difficult. Many homeless people have issues and don't fit in well with rules, restrictions, and responsibilities.

That why you end up with people who choose to sleep rough rather than take the help they are entitled to.

This is true. There are free beds for the night locally, but you may not take drugs and alcohol in and that means some people will prefer to sleep rough. Some hostels are highly intimidating and violence is common, not unlike prisons. Not really ideal for vulnerable people.

There's no one size fits all solution here. The reasons for homelessness are complex and diverse and solutions need to take these reasons into account. I think we should probably spend more time on identifying the causes than providing shelters.

One thing I will say is never think it can't happen to you. When things spiral out of your control it can happen with terrifying speed. Yes, there are professional rough sleepers and beggars but they are the minority. Most are in a very bad place.

[thepeoplespal]

Zolvaro said:

mickythefish said:

Zolvaro said:

I'd like to see the source to back that up please. Do you honestly believe that normally law abiding citizens are committing crimes at the threshold to warrant prison just to get food and shelter?

The UK prison population is aging that is clear just Google it.

It happens in Japan, no reason why it doesn't happen here.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/st...

The prison population is aging does not equal elderly people are going to prison for food and shelter. That's not even interpreting a statistic, that's twisting a statistic to suit an agenda.

The story from Japan is completely unrelated, they clearly have a lower threshold for prison as the "crime" in the linked story would be worthy of a caution at most here. They also have a different culture, a different type of welfare state, a rapidly aging population even compared to ours. There are lots of things that happen in Japan that do not happen here.

Yep, like a 99.8% conviction rate.

[98elise]

croyde said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Spare tyre said:

croyde said:

My daughter is currently homeless, 200 miles up north. She has a job, minimum wage but in order to keep costs down she was living in a student house with 7 others. Awful for her as they are up partying all the time whilst she needs sleep.

Contract ended 2 weeks ago and she and a friend have spent months looking for a 2 bed to rent but so are loads of other people.

The hotel she works for has given her a room for a few days then she has a pet sitting gig so can sleep there for a couple of weeks.

Then what.

She's 25. When I was her age rent was not a problem even down here in London.

She's welcome to come down and move in with me but what about her life, friends and job.

There has too be many more these days who have jobs but can't find anywhere to live.

I myself know that if my landlord decides to stiff me with a rent increase, I could well be in a similar situation. I'm 61.

Bless her, what has gone wrong when a youngster who is hard working and wants to progress can’t

This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.

Croyde, I hope things improve for her

Which town croyde?

Liverpool.

Seems they have the same problems with tenants trying to rent as we have down here in London, and not much cheaper too.

Loads at every viewing and plenty willing to offer over the asking price.

Both her and her friend work in hotels with finishes in the early hours so don't want to be too far out as they can't afford taxis.

Like many in hospitality, they are on 16 hour contracts, never know what hours they are doing so can't do a second job. OK, when the hotels are busy, they can get 40 hours, but not often.

Real eye opener to me to find out that many young people are on these 16 hour contracts.

If she's not getting enough hours tell her to try Aldi. My son is a shelf stacker on a 15hr contract but always has full time hours. When he was asking for more he ended up regularly doing 50-60 hours a weeks but that was hard work. He's now back to about 40. It's more than minimum wage as well.

My sons place is always looking for staff, so I suspect its the same across the country.

Edited to add...

The only caveat is I think they did initially start him on 15 hours, but that soon ramped up as he asked for extra days/hours. I would guess its because they take someone on when they have a regular 15 hour shortfall in staff cover. Since those early days he's full time and it's been consistent for years.

They also get paid holiday and a pension contribution.

Edited by 98elise on Thursday 4th July 09:51

[mickythefish]

I went from earning over 2k a month take-home to 600 quid when CV hit. Never recovered. One thing is if you don't tick boxes you don't get any real social help.

[Unreal]

mickythefish said:

I went from earning over 2k a month take-home to 600 quid when CV hit. Never recovered. One thing is if you don't tick boxes you don't get any real social help.

The PH middle class massive are pretty clueless about real hardship and mental health. It extends beyond PH to a wider view that there's always a bed for the night or a job if you want one.

[vikingaero]

2k a month leaves not a lot left once you pay rent/council tax/utilities and need a car to get to/from work. The car will need maintenance/ved/fuel/insurance too and a big bill can scupper you for months.

[Spare tyre]

Unreal said:

mickythefish said:

I went from earning over 2k a month take-home to 600 quid when CV hit. Never recovered. One thing is if you don't tick boxes you don't get any real social help.

The PH middle class massive are pretty clueless about real hardship and mental health. It extends beyond PH to a wider view that there's always a bed for the night or a job if you want one.

We live in an ok area and thankfully at the moment are doing well etc

On the school run you come across all sort of nuckle dragging behaviour, I think many are mentally exhausted

Seems worse for those who work rather than those who have decided not to

I can’t imagine the stress of running a family house and having a zero hours contract, knowing the MOT is coming up and the oven has just broken and you are already in the red

[Castrol for a knave]

Unreal said:

This is true. There are free beds for the night locally, but you may not take drugs and alcohol in and that means some people will prefer to sleep rough. Some hostels are highly intimidating and violence is common, not unlike prisons. Not really ideal for vulnerable people.

There's no one size fits all solution here. The reasons for homelessness are complex and diverse and solutions need to take these reasons into account. I think we should probably spend more time on identifying the causes than providing shelters.

One thing I will say is never think it can't happen to you. When things spiral out of your control it can happen with terrifying speed. Yes, there are professional rough sleepers and beggars but they are the minority. Most are in a very bad place.

Well said.

It is a diverse and complex problem, and those homeless come from all sorts of backgrounds.