Why are Americans so religious?

[Cotty]

ChocolateFrog said:

Cotty said:

Isn't that pretty much the way for most religions. If your parents follow a religion then chances are any children will follow the same religion, if any. I wonder if left to their own devices with no parental or outside influences how many people would follow a religion.

I don't buy that.

My mum is part of the Salvation Army as is her mum.

I got to about 6 or 7 before I refused to go, she tried dragging me out of the house physically but I wasn't going, I never went again after that.

Total waste of half the weekend, if a very average 6 year old can grasp that what they're being told is complete bks then the argument is pretty weak when talking about adults.

I think you missed the bit in bold above. If you had have followed a religion then chances are you would have followed the religion that you mother followed and tried to make you follow.

[Wacky Racer]

Religion has been responsible for more wars than anything else since Adam were a lad.

Nothing wrong with religion providing people would accept others have another faith to them, and let them get on with it.

Unfortunately, that will never happen, hence better off without it.

[rodericb]

Zetec-S said:

jdw100 said:

There is no real equivalent in Uk of a church that would be anti-gay, super right wing, trump supporting, separation of races, so if you have those views you’ll probably quit going to your church. In USA you’ll find exactly what you are looking for, where fellow parishioners are 100% aligned.

Not quite, and definitely not anywhere near the "mainstream", but there are some churches in the UK which will be far more sympathetic to those sorts of viewpoints, albeit they hide it a little better.

I believe they don't refer to them as Churches as such.

[M5-911]

Wacky Racer said:

Religion has been responsible for more wars than anything else since Adam were a lad.

Nothing wrong with religion providing people would accept others have another faith to them, and let them get on with it.

Unfortunately, that will never happen, hence better off without it.

That is always an interesting point.

From the encyclopedia of wars:

Religious wars in history have counted for less than 7% of all wars and less than 2% of people killed in wars.

Let's say, they got it wrong and add another 10-20%. That is still well under non religious wars. More importantly it doesn't fit the narrative of the so called moralist who try to make us believe that religions are the cause of most conflicts.

Greed, money, racism and political views are the main causes.

[GuigiaroBertone]

The US is a de-facto theocracy, despite the best efforts of Thomas Jefferson et al. and the incredible scientific and technological contributions they have given to the world.

Look up the religious beliefs of congress members. I think there's only one humanist and a few "don't knows". I don't think there's a single confirmed atheist among them. It's political suicide to be an atheist.

The dark shadow that religion casts over the entire population is the main reason why I turned down an offer to move there with my job 15 years ago; I just couldn't imagine having my young daughter being brainwashed in school and having the odds firmly stacked against her in forming her own views about religion.

The recent news about Louisiana schools being forced to display the ten bullst commandments is truly appalling- all while many schoolchildren have had their free school meals pulled by the state. What would their god think of that?

[durbster]

I haven't been to the States post-Trump but even so I was surprised at the amount of religious stuff there, particularly being in the western states which I took to be a little more progressive than most.

I remember driving down a road and seeing a 30 metre high cross with "Jesus saves" under it, carved into a hillside. I can't imagine that would last very long in the UK

I think a large part of why religiosity persists comes from how much of it is pumped into the TV and radio. The TV ads I saw were relentless and shockingly unashamed. Most of them constituted a bloke wearing a very expensive suit and face saying, "send me me $162 dollars and I'll pray for your business.".

And I'm barely paraphrasing there - some were barely more dressed up than that. It was extraordinary.

[GuigiaroBertone]

M5-911 said:

Greed, money, racism and political views are the main causes.

These are also the main causes of religion.

[Zetec-S]

durbster said:

I think a large part of why religiosity persists comes from how much of it is pumped into the TV and radio. The TV ads I saw were relentless and shockingly unashamed. Most of them constituted a bloke wearing a very expensive suit and face saying, "send me me $162 dollars and I'll pray for your business.".

And I'm barely paraphrasing there - some were barely more dressed up than that. It was extraordinary.

Yeah, it's pretty scary how people buy into this.

A family friend of my wife has a son about 10/11 years old with all sorts of behavioural issues, diagnosed with the whole alphabet. Yet all they ever talk about is how he has the "devil inside him", and they are not being metaphorical. They openly talk about it in front of the son, so the son literally believes the devil is in him.

The family don't have a pot to piss in, none of them work, but apparently the schools are useless (despite him having a taxi to and from a special school every day, and 1 on 1 tuition) and the government don't do anything but thankfully "the Lord provides when they need it."

A while back they were trying to raise money to travel to America, they'd seen a preacher on one of the god channels who was curing all sorts of illnesses and conditions. But mainstream medicine would always cover up these miracles as it is run by sinners. They needed the airfares and money to give to the preacher/church so he could continue to carry out the Lords work. I remember googling the guy and a few articles pop up about him being charged with fraud, but apparently this was just the secular media's way of denial...

Thankfully we don't see them any more, no idea whether they ever made it to the US though. Poor kid, doesn't really stand a chance

[CHLEMCBC]

MikeM6 said:

I would suggest it's not as simple as "they are thick", but more of a case of "it has worked for them".

It hasn't though. It's held them back and is ultimately responsible for the sthole they find themselves neck deep in. If they were really Christians and not Old Testament fundamentalists masquerading as such, there wouldn't be tens of thousands of people sleeping in tents in every city.
z+-+-5wThe "American Dream" of selfish self-fulfilment and conning your way into a personal fortune by clambering on the backs of other lesser mortals was never Christian. Their worship of and allegiance to Mammon is evident to everyone but themselves.

[CHLEMCBC]

MBBlat said:

hidetheelephants said:

M5-911 said:

I think secular states have proven you wrong.

There aren't any. I'll make an assumption and guess you're going to cite the USSR, China, etc. In both cases the cult of personality largely or entirely replaced the cult of religion, arguably they are the same thing anyway.

How about France, who are very aggressively secular? Germany? Canada?

In fact the only European states that I can think of where the church wields any sort of real power are Ireland and Poland, and in the former it’s rapidly declining.

and Malta

[CHLEMCBC]

durbster said:

I remember driving down a road and seeing a 30 metre high cross with "Jesus saves" under it, carved into a hillside. I can't imagine that would last very long in the UK

No, some wag would add: " but [insert name of favourite footballer here] puts it in on the rebound"

[mikey_b]

GuigiaroBertone said:

The dark shadow that religion casts over the entire population is the main reason why I turned down an offer to move there with my job 15 years ago; I just couldn't imagine having my young daughter being brainwashed in school and having the odds firmly stacked against her in forming her own views about religion.

The recent news about Louisiana schools being forced to display the ten bullst commandments is truly appalling- all while many schoolchildren have had their free school meals pulled by the state. What would their god think of that?

I think most people would say that the first 3 commandments are pure religion and have no useful meaning outside of it, but the last 6 are a pretty decent set of general guidelines for how to live a good life. The 4th is more debateable, but you don't have to go to church to think that at least one day more focussed on non-work is a good idea.

[mikey_b]

CHLEMCBC said:

durbster said:

I remember driving down a road and seeing a 30 metre high cross with "Jesus saves" under it, carved into a hillside. I can't imagine that would last very long in the UK

No, some wag would add: " but [insert name of favourite footballer here] puts it in on the rebound"

Or 'with Vanguard, for low fees and good returns!'

[J4CKO]

Americans arent that different to us, with a broad spread of intelligence and knowledge.

I have travelled to the states many times, worked there and holidayed there, there is most definitely intelligent life there, generally concentrated on the East and West coasts, but not exclusively.

I have worked with Americans who have travelled extensively and that tends to give them perspective, have also met some that have never left the US, met some very religious people as well.

I think the difference comes in based on the scale of the place and the population being a lot bigger. Plus, on the travel thing, the US is massive as has some much of everything I can see how some arent that bothered about travel outside the US when they have racetracks, theme parks, Monster Trucks, Big cities, small towns, mountains, rivers, snow, heat, great food and all that the states offers.

But I find the travel tends to make them a bit more humble and self aware, some American are always at pains to tell you how great they are, how they are the best and in some ways its true, but doesnt render everything else null and void and its a bit weird trying to tell everyone how awesome you are and have them agree, what is the need to have that affirmation ?

[ATG]

Voldemort said:

Alickadoo said:

I think it has a lot everything to do with intelligence and common sense.

EFA

It's got nothing to do with that. The one thing you can be certain of is that people across the planet have the same average level of intelligence and common sense.

The difference is culture. Different history, different myths about their origins as a nation, conforming to different patterns of speech and common tropes.

The French unload manure at the mayor's front gate at the drop of a hat. Americans think it's completely normal to hang a national flag next to their front door. They swear allegiance to a flag frequently, we occasionally swear allegiance to a monarch (they mean it a bit more than we do). We all think the other nations are mental.

They think it's normal to say they are "blessed" where we'd say we are "lucky" when both of us are humble-bragging about some achievement.

[ATG]

mikey_b said:

CHLEMCBC said:

durbster said:

I remember driving down a road and seeing a 30 metre high cross with "Jesus saves" under it, carved into a hillside. I can't imagine that would last very long in the UK

No, some wag would add: " but [insert name of favourite footballer here] puts it in on the rebound"

Or 'with Vanguard, for low fees and good returns!'

And a few yards down the road from the "Jesus saves" sign, you'll see another massive sign advertising a burger. Conclusion: US doesn't do planning rules like the UK so the advertising is massive. In the UK we have small burger posters and small "Jesus saves!" posters.

[Petrus1983]

It protects them from high school shootings, mass shootings and tornadoes. Makes sense to me.

[Ultra Sound Guy]

They need something to believe in/blame

[MikeM6]

CHLEMCBC said:

It hasn't though. It's held them back and is ultimately responsible for the sthole they find themselves neck deep in. If they were really Christians and not Old Testament fundamentalists masquerading as such, there wouldn't be tens of thousands of people sleeping in tents in every city.
z+-+-5wThe "American Dream" of selfish self-fulfilment and conning your way into a personal fortune by clambering on the backs of other lesser mortals was never Christian. Their worship of and allegiance to Mammon is evident to everyone but themselves.

Is that first hand experience of your travels across America?

[GuigiaroBertone]

MikeM6 said:

CHLEMCBC said:

It hasn't though. It's held them back and is ultimately responsible for the sthole they find themselves neck deep in. If they were really Christians and not Old Testament fundamentalists masquerading as such, there wouldn't be tens of thousands of people sleeping in tents in every city.
z+-+-5wThe "American Dream" of selfish self-fulfilment and conning your way into a personal fortune by clambering on the backs of other lesser mortals was never Christian. Their worship of and allegiance to Mammon is evident to everyone but themselves.

Is that first hand experience of your travels across America?

it's pretty much my experience, I'm ashamed to say, although the UK is swiftly heading in the same direction.

I've spent at least a week (sometimes months) in 22 states now and I can't think of another Western country where there is such an egregious rich/poor divide.

If you can afford to live in a upmarket US suburb, the ambience and local facilities are far swankier than what you'll get in similar parts of the UK, but likewise if you're unfortunate enough to fall through the cracks, then the lack of a welfare state is all too apparent.

In every US city I've visited (apart from NYC very recently), rough sleeping was at epidemic levels. I remember driving out of Portland one February morning heading towards the mountains and almost every doorway, bus shelter and bench had some poor person sleeping rough.

I don't know what they're doing in NYC- i'm sure they also have their fair share of homelessness, but at least they are largely off the streets.