Conspiracy theorists... are they all just a bit thick?
Discussion
Hoofy said:
Pistom said:
V6 Pushfit said:
As the Prime Minister said today, those that don’t believe Covid exists need to grow up.
The same goes for ALL conspiracy theorists IMO even when it isn’t a danger to a democracy (eg believing Trumps lies) or a danger to life (the Covid deniers).
It’s not clever, they haven’t just discovered a Deep State secret as there isn’t a Deep State, and there really isn’t any government plan to control peoples minds.
I think it depends what your understanding of conspiracy theorists. The conspiracies which are real aren't usually discoverable by using the internet as a research tool. Nor does the information about them come from the likes of David Icke who makes a living from entertainment.The same goes for ALL conspiracy theorists IMO even when it isn’t a danger to a democracy (eg believing Trumps lies) or a danger to life (the Covid deniers).
It’s not clever, they haven’t just discovered a Deep State secret as there isn’t a Deep State, and there really isn’t any government plan to control peoples minds.
Backhanders and nepotism aren't really conspiracies but activities which could take place within parties conspiring. As for the happy vaccine chips - WTF?
My clarification of V6s point really focuses on the assertion that ALL conspiracy theorist need to grow up. The problem with using ALL is it suggests that conspiracies don't exist for a theory to be put together about them which is naive at best and I don't think that was what he meant.
People living in the fantasy world of conspiracies fabricated for entertainment need to grow up but these days, not all of them are as obviously ridiculous as the earth being flat or the moon was engineered.
Edited by Pistom on Friday 8th January 05:43
Pistom said:
Backhanders and nepotism aren't really conspiracies but activities which could take place within parties conspiring.
ERM... That is the definition of the act of conspiring... Are you suggesting that people who conspire are not participating in a conspiracy?A conspiracy is, as defined in the Cambridge online English dictionary:
The activity of secretly planning with other people to do something bad or illegal.
So backhanders and nepotism are the dictionary definition of conspiracies.
And that is quite different to a conspiracy theorist who beleives in improbable secret plans that there is no evidence for and often, do not even make sense. V6 is right that these people need to grow up.
The world seems to be full of them, in my own experience they seem to be lured by some huge secret they’ve been let into and the flames are fanned by their peers. It’s not long before reality or rational answers are ignored and the conspiracy becomes ‘real’ to them. It seems to be a mixture of lacking education, subversiveness and just being easily led.
I’ve watched the Trump saga unfold over several years and been astonished at his grooming of followers to a point where he could now get them to act illegally on one tweet that’s fabricated rubbish. It’s all based on lies, but they don’t see that at all and huge numbers honestly believe a ‘rigged’ election despite every rational explanation and fact outside of Trumps cult indicating otherwise. Biden will have his work cut out now and will need to issue some hard facts to get the MAGAs to realise they’ve been played.
If Boris did this, ie stood up after the next election and stated ‘fact’ that it was rigged would we believe him?
Thank God we have a House of Commons - as a ‘Trump’ PM would be demolished in a month of PMQ’s whereas all he needed to do in the US was stop pressers, tweet that the free press was lying and then say whatever he wanted - and bingo they are where they are.
I’ve watched the Trump saga unfold over several years and been astonished at his grooming of followers to a point where he could now get them to act illegally on one tweet that’s fabricated rubbish. It’s all based on lies, but they don’t see that at all and huge numbers honestly believe a ‘rigged’ election despite every rational explanation and fact outside of Trumps cult indicating otherwise. Biden will have his work cut out now and will need to issue some hard facts to get the MAGAs to realise they’ve been played.
If Boris did this, ie stood up after the next election and stated ‘fact’ that it was rigged would we believe him?
Thank God we have a House of Commons - as a ‘Trump’ PM would be demolished in a month of PMQ’s whereas all he needed to do in the US was stop pressers, tweet that the free press was lying and then say whatever he wanted - and bingo they are where they are.
Bit of a random one, I've noticed on the comments, talk radios viewers seem to be turning against them as the likes of JHB are pro vaccination. They liked her for her anti lockdown stance but because she will have the vaccine, they now turn against her. Fickle weird people. I'm not pro lockdown by any stretch, quite the opposite, but I don't subscribe to some of the sillier conspiracy theories. With people now it seems you've got to pick sides, either one being extreme in their views. Weird world we're living in.
Also posted on NPE/will you take the vaccine thread.
Also posted on NPE/will you take the vaccine thread.
captain_cynic said:
Pistom said:
Backhanders and nepotism aren't really conspiracies but activities which could take place within parties conspiring.
ERM... That is the definition of the act of conspiring... Are you suggesting that people who conspire are not participating in a conspiracy?A conspiracy is, as defined in the Cambridge online English dictionary:
The activity of secretly planning with other people to do something bad or illegal.
So backhanders and nepotism are the dictionary definition of conspiracies.
And that is quite different to a conspiracy theorist who beleives in improbable secret plans that there is no evidence for and often, do not even make sense. V6 is right that these people need to grow up.
A backhander is a secret and illegal payment. If I give the Policeman a bribe to let me off speeding - is there a conspiracy?
Nepotism is the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs. If I make my son the job of Manager when others were more deserving of the role - is there a conspiracy?
I would say technically yes as it takes at least 2 people to act in an illegal manner but conspiracies are generally thought of as being a larger group of influential people.
Where did you get your definition of conspiracy theorists?
A conspiracy theory is an attempt to explain harmful or tragic events as the result of the actions of a small powerful group. Such explanations reject the accepted explanation surrounding those events so a conspiracy theorist is the person or people who arrive at that explanation.
It's very difficult to give examples as very few real conspiracies come to light and those who find themselves tied up in them are often prevented from sharing what they know but let me try with this one.
We know about Katherine Gun - the GCHQ analyst who passed emails to an anti-war activist over the US and UK trying to persuade the UN to pass a resolution for war with Iraq.
That information was the basis for a conspiracy theory which at the time was questioned, denied but eventually validated.
Those who presented the accusations were "conspiracy theorists"
Should they have "grown up"?
I think our difference in opinion is over the specific definitions but I fear your understanding is becoming more and more popular in the common vernacular which is a little worrying as it has become so easy for real conspiracies to hide behind such dismissals.
I think this is partly due to the growth of loony conspiracies but as I said earlier - not all loony conspiracies are so easy to dismiss.
I suspect that if someone like Katherine Gun did what she did then today, it would never be given headline space.
Pistom said:
Not sure if I'm being pedantic, misunderstanding what's been written or one of us is just plain wrong but here is my thinking.
A backhander is a secret and illegal payment. If I give the Policeman a bribe to let me off speeding - is there a conspiracy?
Nepotism is the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs. If I make my son the job of Manager when others were more deserving of the role - is there a conspiracy?
I would say technically yes as it takes at least 2 people to act in an illegal manner but conspiracies are generally thought of as being a larger group of influential people.
Where did you get your definition of conspiracy theorists?
A conspiracy theory is an attempt to explain harmful or tragic events as the result of the actions of a small powerful group. Such explanations reject the accepted explanation surrounding those events so a conspiracy theorist is the person or people who arrive at that explanation.
It's very difficult to give examples as very few real conspiracies come to light and those who find themselves tied up in them are often prevented from sharing what they know but let me try with this one.
We know about Katherine Gun - the GCHQ analyst who passed emails to an anti-war activist over the US and UK trying to persuade the UN to pass a resolution for war with Iraq.
That information was the basis for a conspiracy theory which at the time was questioned, denied but eventually validated.
Those who presented the accusations were "conspiracy theorists"
Should they have "grown up"?
I think our difference in opinion is over the specific definitions but I fear your understanding is becoming more and more popular in the common vernacular which is a little worrying as it has become so easy for real conspiracies to hide behind such dismissals.
I think this is partly due to the growth of loony conspiracies but as I said earlier - not all loony conspiracies are so easy to dismiss.
I suspect that if someone like Katherine Gun did what she did then today, it would never be given headline space.
There’s a big gulf between validly questioning something or releasing information you’re not comfortable with knowing as part of a deceit, to tweeting some half understood unresearched rumour you’ve heard tenth hand as being ‘fact’ with the ubiquitous ’please share ASAP’ A backhander is a secret and illegal payment. If I give the Policeman a bribe to let me off speeding - is there a conspiracy?
Nepotism is the practice among those with power or influence of favouring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs. If I make my son the job of Manager when others were more deserving of the role - is there a conspiracy?
I would say technically yes as it takes at least 2 people to act in an illegal manner but conspiracies are generally thought of as being a larger group of influential people.
Where did you get your definition of conspiracy theorists?
A conspiracy theory is an attempt to explain harmful or tragic events as the result of the actions of a small powerful group. Such explanations reject the accepted explanation surrounding those events so a conspiracy theorist is the person or people who arrive at that explanation.
It's very difficult to give examples as very few real conspiracies come to light and those who find themselves tied up in them are often prevented from sharing what they know but let me try with this one.
We know about Katherine Gun - the GCHQ analyst who passed emails to an anti-war activist over the US and UK trying to persuade the UN to pass a resolution for war with Iraq.
That information was the basis for a conspiracy theory which at the time was questioned, denied but eventually validated.
Those who presented the accusations were "conspiracy theorists"
Should they have "grown up"?
I think our difference in opinion is over the specific definitions but I fear your understanding is becoming more and more popular in the common vernacular which is a little worrying as it has become so easy for real conspiracies to hide behind such dismissals.
I think this is partly due to the growth of loony conspiracies but as I said earlier - not all loony conspiracies are so easy to dismiss.
I suspect that if someone like Katherine Gun did what she did then today, it would never be given headline space.
V6 Pushfit said:
There’s a big gulf between validly questioning something or releasing information you’re not comfortable with knowing as part of a deceit, to tweeting some half understood unresearched rumour you’ve heard tenth hand as being ‘fact’ with the ubiquitous ’please share ASAP’
Yes - exactly and I completely agree with your point that those in the latter need to stop.The damage caused by them isn't just the BS they spread but also that they lessen the impact and credibility of genuine issues.
Pistom said:
V6 Pushfit said:
There’s a big gulf between validly questioning something or releasing information you’re not comfortable with knowing as part of a deceit, to tweeting some half understood unresearched rumour you’ve heard tenth hand as being ‘fact’ with the ubiquitous ’please share ASAP’
Yes - exactly and I completely agree with your point that those in the latter need to stop.The damage caused by them isn't just the BS they spread but also that they lessen the impact and credibility of genuine issues.
Pistom said:
V6 Pushfit said:
There’s a big gulf between validly questioning something or releasing information you’re not comfortable with knowing as part of a deceit, to tweeting some half understood unresearched rumour you’ve heard tenth hand as being ‘fact’ with the ubiquitous ’please share ASAP’
Yes - exactly and I completely agree with your point that those in the latter need to stop.The damage caused by them isn't just the BS they spread but also that they lessen the impact and credibility of genuine issues.
probably qualifies as a conspiracy but I was surprised recently in a generic whatsapp group for 'manchester' containing quite a lot of people where it's actually a fairly common opinion that if the protests on Capitol hill were black people then no one would have been shot and this is the start of America idolising African Americans and them taking over the country
it was shocking to read just how deluded some people are, combined with the anti-vaccers / 5g/ qanon / etc etc stuff which is getting more and more popular.. it makes me question the world if no one has any common sense or can think for themselves anymore
it was shocking to read just how deluded some people are, combined with the anti-vaccers / 5g/ qanon / etc etc stuff which is getting more and more popular.. it makes me question the world if no one has any common sense or can think for themselves anymore
WCZ said:
it was shocking to read just how deluded some people are, combined with the anti-vaccers / 5g/ qanon / etc etc stuff which is getting more and more popular.. it makes me question the world if no one has any common sense or can think for themselves anymore
I feel like if we could just cull approx 50% of the population (conservative estimate), the world would most likely be a much better place.The internet has harmed more than its helped in this respect, as it’s given anyone who has access to a computer, mobile and a network a voice. The irony of the anti-5G morons is certainly not lost on me, when they’re posting about it on the internet.
deckster said:
Monkeylegend said:
Well apparently Shuvi has been abducted by aliens and is sitting up there with Phil looking down on us, plotting their next conspiracy theory.
If I had to guess, sending unsolicited videos of people being killed is sufficient to get you banned from PH.
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