Homelessness

Author
Discussion

Spare tyre

9,858 posts

133 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
croyde said:
My daughter is currently homeless, 200 miles up north. She has a job, minimum wage but in order to keep costs down she was living in a student house with 7 others. Awful for her as they are up partying all the time whilst she needs sleep.

Contract ended 2 weeks ago and she and a friend have spent months looking for a 2 bed to rent but so are loads of other people.

The hotel she works for has given her a room for a few days then she has a pet sitting gig so can sleep there for a couple of weeks.

Then what.

She's 25. When I was her age rent was not a problem even down here in London.

She's welcome to come down and move in with me but what about her life, friends and job.

There has too be many more these days who have jobs but can't find anywhere to live.

I myself know that if my landlord decides to stiff me with a rent increase, I could well be in a similar situation. I'm 61.
Bless her, what has gone wrong when a youngster who is hard working and wants to progress can’t

This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.

Croyde, I hope things improve for her

Countdown

40,466 posts

199 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Spare tyre said:
This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.
Just on a minor note Social Housing is very basic. I think very few PHers would choose to live in them unless they had to (which is as it should be). And there aren't many 4 bed / 5 bed properties. Most tend to be 2 bed/3 bed and the kids are expected to share.

HTP99

22,796 posts

143 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Spare tyre said:
This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.
Just on a minor note Social Housing is very basic. I think very few PHers would choose to live in them unless they had to (which is as it should be). And there aren't many 4 bed / 5 bed properties. Most tend to be 2 bed/3 bed and the kids are expected to share.
It depends where you live and your circumstances, I know a few in social housing both new builds and older properties from the 60's, they aren't by any means "basic".

vikingaero

10,627 posts

172 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
Countdown said:
Spare tyre said:
This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.
Just on a minor note Social Housing is very basic. I think very few PHers would choose to live in them unless they had to (which is as it should be). And there aren't many 4 bed / 5 bed properties. Most tend to be 2 bed/3 bed and the kids are expected to share.
It depends where you live and your circumstances, I know a few in social housing both new builds and older properties from the 60's, they aren't by any means "basic".
I'm not sure where you're looking Mr Countdown. There are tens of thousands of families in brand new, new 3/4 bed build housing that have been allocated for social use. Look at any large new housing estate and a % of them will be given over to housing associations with the same luxury kitchens and bathrooms as private buyers on the same estate.

Homelessness is a complex issue. We as Society expect people to conform and live in houses and flats and abide by the rules. And for many they just can't do that whether that is due to addiction or some mental health issue. There are people out there who have given their spare accommodation to homeless people, only for them to leave because they can't cope or bear it.

Red9zero

7,265 posts

60 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
HTP99 said:
Countdown said:
Spare tyre said:
This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.
Just on a minor note Social Housing is very basic. I think very few PHers would choose to live in them unless they had to (which is as it should be). And there aren't many 4 bed / 5 bed properties. Most tend to be 2 bed/3 bed and the kids are expected to share.
It depends where you live and your circumstances, I know a few in social housing both new builds and older properties from the 60's, they aren't by any means "basic".
There is some social housing on our "new build" estate. They are exactly the same as the £500k houses next door to them. Plenty of them are 4-5 bedrooms.

Countdown

40,466 posts

199 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Red9zero said:
HTP99 said:
Countdown said:
Spare tyre said:
This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.
Just on a minor note Social Housing is very basic. I think very few PHers would choose to live in them unless they had to (which is as it should be). And there aren't many 4 bed / 5 bed properties. Most tend to be 2 bed/3 bed and the kids are expected to share.
It depends where you live and your circumstances, I know a few in social housing both new builds and older properties from the 60's, they aren't by any means "basic".
There is some social housing on our "new build" estate. They are exactly the same as the £500k houses next door to them. Plenty of them are 4-5 bedrooms.
My experience is from being an Interim FD for 2 mid sized Housing Associations in the North West. The vast majority of stock was 2-bed/3-bed housing from the 50's and 60's. we also had a couple of tower blocks with 1 bed/ 2 bed flats. We were building new houses but (again) theses were 2 bed/3 bed houses because that's where the biggest waiting lists were. Each of these was costing us £150k from scratch (although we got grants from Homes England) As a general rule these go through a lot of wear and tear (for various reasons). the fixtures and fittings don't tend to be PH levels of quality, they are built depending on the lowest price tender.

MattsCar

1,120 posts

108 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.

There are jobs galore around my area, Tesco/ Amazon/ DPD warehouses who will instantly give a job to anyone, usually slightly above minimum wage.

There are also plenty of rooms in shared houses for £500 a month (checked a few months ago for a friend).

So you get a job, move in to a shared house and live on a restricted budget, within your means, basically what the majority of eastern european migrants do, when they arrive in to this country and then work their way up.

Obviously, if you are not prepared to work, then you are going to have trouble. Likewise if you have some sort of addiction problem, that sees you hanging round the local town centre, posing as homeless, but pinching from Poundland to fund your habit.

Obviously there will be exceptions and genuine reasons, why someone can't work, injuries, mental issues etc and I hope that there would be things in place to help such people.



Edited by MattsCar on Wednesday 3rd July 15:28

Zolvaro

143 posts

2 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.

There are jobs galore around my area, Tesco/ Amazon/ DPD warehouses who will instantly give a job to anyone, usually slightly above minimum wage.

There are also plenty of rooms in shared houses for £500 a month (checked a few months ago for a friend).

So you get a job, move in to a shared house and live on a restricted budget, within your means, basically what the majority of eastern european migrants do, when they arrive in to this country and then work their way up.

Obviously, if you are not prepared to work, then you are going to have trouble. Likewise if you have some sort of addiction problem, that sees you hanging round the local town centre, posing as homeless, but pinching from Poundland to fund your habit.
Have you tried to get a job without an address?

Anyway you heard it here everyone! homeless people are just lazy, thanks for solving that for us, can you do war next?


Edited by Zolvaro on Wednesday 3rd July 15:28

Red9zero

7,265 posts

60 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.

There are jobs galore around my area, Tesco/ Amazon/ DPD warehouses who will instantly give a job to anyone, usually slightly above minimum wage.

There are also plenty of rooms in shared houses for £500 a month (checked a few months ago for a friend).

So you get a job, move in to a shared house and live on a restricted budget, within your means, basically what the majority of eastern european migrants do, when they arrive in to this country and then work their way up.

Obviously, if you are not prepared to work, then you are going to have trouble. Likewise if you have some sort of addiction problem, that sees you hanging round the local town centre, posing as homeless, but pinching from Poundland to fund your habit.
Can you get a job without an address, and a bank account ? I know our company tried employing a few homeless people a while ago and it was impossible. Maybe cash in hand work, but that would come with its own problems.

MattsCar

1,120 posts

108 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Red9zero said:
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.

There are jobs galore around my area, Tesco/ Amazon/ DPD warehouses who will instantly give a job to anyone, usually slightly above minimum wage.

There are also plenty of rooms in shared houses for £500 a month (checked a few months ago for a friend).

So you get a job, move in to a shared house and live on a restricted budget, within your means, basically what the majority of eastern european migrants do, when they arrive in to this country and then work their way up.

Obviously, if you are not prepared to work, then you are going to have trouble. Likewise if you have some sort of addiction problem, that sees you hanging round the local town centre, posing as homeless, but pinching from Poundland to fund your habit.
Can you get a job without an address, and a bank account ? I know our company tried employing a few homeless people a while ago and it was impossible. Maybe cash in hand work, but that would come with its own problems.
Yes, you can, there are a number of ways. And HSBC offer a no fixed address bank account.

Zolvaro

143 posts

2 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
MattsCar said:
Red9zero said:
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.

There are jobs galore around my area, Tesco/ Amazon/ DPD warehouses who will instantly give a job to anyone, usually slightly above minimum wage.

There are also plenty of rooms in shared houses for £500 a month (checked a few months ago for a friend).

So you get a job, move in to a shared house and live on a restricted budget, within your means, basically what the majority of eastern european migrants do, when they arrive in to this country and then work their way up.

Obviously, if you are not prepared to work, then you are going to have trouble. Likewise if you have some sort of addiction problem, that sees you hanging round the local town centre, posing as homeless, but pinching from Poundland to fund your habit.
Can you get a job without an address, and a bank account ? I know our company tried employing a few homeless people a while ago and it was impossible. Maybe cash in hand work, but that would come with its own problems.
Yes, you can, there are a number of ways. And HSBC offer a no fixed address bank account.
It's easy is it? I'm sure getting through the right to work checks as a homeless person is a breeze as well.

MattsCar

1,120 posts

108 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Zolvaro said:
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.

There are jobs galore around my area, Tesco/ Amazon/ DPD warehouses who will instantly give a job to anyone, usually slightly above minimum wage.

There are also plenty of rooms in shared houses for £500 a month (checked a few months ago for a friend).

So you get a job, move in to a shared house and live on a restricted budget, within your means, basically what the majority of eastern european migrants do, when they arrive in to this country and then work their way up.

Obviously, if you are not prepared to work, then you are going to have trouble. Likewise if you have some sort of addiction problem, that sees you hanging round the local town centre, posing as homeless, but pinching from Poundland to fund your habit.
Have you tried to get a job without an address?

Anyway you heard it here everyone! homeless people are just lazy, thanks for solving that for us, can you do war next?


Edited by Zolvaro on Wednesday 3rd July 15:28
No, because I have always had an address. And if I didn't have an address, I would be using the facilities in the local area, of which there are lots (around here) for homeless people, to put things in to place so that I had a temporary address and a bank account. Anyone that didn't do that...would in my books, be considered lazy.

Yes, some may have genuine issues that prevents them from working and I hope they would get the support they needed.



98elise

27,155 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Countdown said:
Spare tyre said:
This is what winds me up so much about the five kids families at school who’ve never had a job but have a lovely house and all the trappings.
Just on a minor note Social Housing is very basic. I think very few PHers would choose to live in them unless they had to (which is as it should be). And there aren't many 4 bed / 5 bed properties. Most tend to be 2 bed/3 bed and the kids are expected to share.
Not in my experience.

As I've said a few times on here my father in law lived 2 streets from us in a housing association house and never worked in the entire time I knew him.

It was maintained and upgraded by the HA including new bathrooms and a kitchen, and double glazing. I wouldn't describe it as basic. It was just normal reasonably modern house. The main difference between our house and theirs (we lived 2 streets away) was we had to work pay for ours, plus pay for all the work it needed.

Countdown

40,466 posts

199 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
98elise said:
Not in my experience.

As I've said a few times on here my father in law lived 2 streets from us in a housing association house and never worked in the entire time I knew him.

It was maintained and upgraded by the HA including new bathrooms and a kitchen, and double glazing. I wouldn't describe it as basic. It was just normal reasonably modern house. The main difference between our house and theirs (we lived 2 streets away) was we had to work pay for ours, plus pay for all the work it needed.
I hope you don't mind me asking as I'm genuinely curious

What kind of house was it? (terraced/semi/Detached)
Approximate value?
How long has he lived there and (assuming the LA has a waiting list) what criteria did he use to get to the top of the Priority list? Was he a single parent? Homeless? A veteran? It's unlikely (IME) that a single bloke would be given a full house. Given the waiting lists and the overcrowding they're normally given to families. There's a priority list starting at "homeless single parents/lots of kids" at the top, moving down to "Not homeless individuals who want their own place but can't afford open market rentals"

Kitchens/bathrooms are on a rolling replacement programme. They get changed every 10 to 15 years usually (assuming they don't get trashed by the tenants). However they ARE the basic stuff from the likes of B&Q, there was no point putting decent or high-end stuff in.

There are definitely individuals/families who take the proverbial, and would benefit from a regular tasering in the balls. However having a home at least gives some of them the chance to break the poverty cycle. If they don't have decent housing they'll do crap at school, which means they dont have the best of chances in getting suitable employment which means they're also going to end up homeless. OTOH provide them with basic housing and there's a chance they might turn out to be law abiding tax paying citizens.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal but I think it's amazing that we live in a society where the State at least tries to look after people who (for one reason or another) are incapable of looking after themselves .



Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 3rd July 17:34

CHLEMCBC

280 posts

20 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Spare tyre said:
TheJimi said:
Spare tyre said:
Motorman74 said:
A school friend of mine was murdered in a homeless hostel - he'd had a troubled life, even when we were in school - but he didn't deserve that.

My wife's office is opposite the same homeless hostel, a number of homeless people have been hit by cars while totally out of it on spice or whatever.

Where I work, there are a large number of vans and caravans parked in non-residential streets around a park. They are being moved on - they need to go somewhere, it's probably going to be dispersal in the surrounding residential streets. Despite "van life" being this idealised youtube channel thing, none of these people are living in vans by choice. A bit more empathy/compassion is needed.

It's an epidemic of immense proportions, and it's not limited to the UK. The system is completely broken. I don't have any idea how this can be fixed, but just abandoning these people is really not acceptable in 2024.
Horrid thing to say, but stopping rewarding cretins for breeding with free houses and “pay” would be a good start
So within the context of homelessness, that's your answer?
No, I was suggesting that the money is about, but it’s spent in the wrong place
No, you were suggesting that certain stratum of society should no longer be encouraged to disgorge progeny with the promise of free housing. You'll have some checkable figures as to the scale of this and the money spent on it to bolster your position, I assume?

TheJimi

25,208 posts

246 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.
I've been biting my tongue at this.

That is an incredibly naive and simplistic view of what is almost always a complex situation for the individuals who find themselves homeless.


98elise

27,155 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Countdown said:
98elise said:
Not in my experience.

As I've said a few times on here my father in law lived 2 streets from us in a housing association house and never worked in the entire time I knew him.

It was maintained and upgraded by the HA including new bathrooms and a kitchen, and double glazing. I wouldn't describe it as basic. It was just normal reasonably modern house. The main difference between our house and theirs (we lived 2 streets away) was we had to work pay for ours, plus pay for all the work it needed.
I hope you don't mind me asking as I'm genuinely curious

What kind of house was it? (terraced/semi/Detached)
Approximate value?
How long has he lived there and (assuming the LA has a waiting list) what criteria did he use to get to the top of the Priority list? Was he a single parent? Homeless? A veteran? It's unlikely (IME) that a single bloke would be given a full house. Given the waiting lists and the overcrowding they're normally given to families. There's a priority list starting at "homeless single parents/lots of kids" at the top, moving down to "Not homeless individuals who want their own place but can't afford open market rentals"

Kitchens/bathrooms are on a rolling replacement programme. They get changed every 10 to 15 years usually (assuming they don't get trashed by the tenants). However they ARE the basic stuff from the likes of B&Q, there was no point putting decent or high-end stuff in.

There are definitely individuals/families who take the proverbial, and would benefit from a regular tasering in the balls. However having a home at least gives some of them the chance to break the poverty cycle. If they don't have decent housing they'll do crap at school, which means they dont have the best of chances in getting suitable employment which means they're also going to end up homeless. OTOH provide them with basic housing and there's a chance they might turn out to be law abiding tax paying citizens.

I am not a bleeding heart liberal but I think it's amazing that we live in a society where the State at least tries to look after people who (for one reason or another) are incapable of looking after themselves .



Edited by Countdown on Wednesday 3rd July 17:34
It was a 3 bed end of terrace house in the south east. Value today would be something like £280k. He'd lived there since the mid 70's when it was the family home (council house).

Yes the bathrooms and kitchens were on a par with say B&Q, but that's what I would call normal, rather than basic. Certainly not bad in any way. If someone wanted to come and replace my 25 year old kitchen with a free B&Q one I would be over the moon. Changing every 10 to 15 years sounds about right from what we saw.


Countdown

40,466 posts

199 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
98elise said:
It was a 3 bed end of terrace house in the south east. Value today would be something like £280k. He'd lived there since the mid 70's when it was the family home (council house).

Yes the bathrooms and kitchens were on a par with say B&Q, but that's what I would call normal, rather than basic. Certainly not bad in any way. If someone wanted to come and replace my 25 year old kitchen with a free B&Q one I would be over the moon. Changing every 10 to 15 years sounds about right from what we saw.
Thanks for responding.

If it's a 3-bed and he's living on his own I'm surprised he's not being asked to move or having his Housing Benefit cut (as he is technically "underoccupying")

MattsCar

1,120 posts

108 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
TheJimi said:
MattsCar said:
Shoot me down if I am wrong, but I can't see how anybody, can end up homeless....if they are prepared to work.
I've been biting my tongue at this.

That is an incredibly naive and simplistic view of what is almost always a complex situation for the individuals who find themselves homeless.
That is fair enough and I can understand why people might disagree, but, if someone is willing to work, there aren't many reasons why they should be homeless.

The OP's original post was this, which i responded to...

”Just wondered your thoughts on it. We are not talking people with addiction problems etc just normal people who due to the cost of living, divorce, mental health etc, massively changing, not ticking boxes for social help, usually single males,”

In all honesty, other than serious mental health struggles (which are valid and as I have said before, I hope those in that situation society is setup to help those that need it) I can't see any reason why anything else in the list above, would stop someone from working and supporting themselves in accommodation?

Cost of living crisis? Maybe live within your means?

Divorce? When has being divorced stopped a person from working?

My view is simplistic, but I genuinely can't see any reason, other than what I have mentioned above, why anyone would be homeless if they are willing to work and live within their means.

Someone previously mentioned that it is nigh on impossible to get a job as you can't get an address/ can't get a bank account, which if true, would be an issue.

ETA Please note that this is my view. There are a lot more knowledgeable people out there who know a lot more about this than me and I am happy to accept that my view might not be correct, so if anyone wants to school me and change my mind go ahead!



Edited by MattsCar on Wednesday 3rd July 19:34

98elise

27,155 posts

164 months

Wednesday 3rd July
quotequote all
Countdown said:
98elise said:
It was a 3 bed end of terrace house in the south east. Value today would be something like £280k. He'd lived there since the mid 70's when it was the family home (council house).

Yes the bathrooms and kitchens were on a par with say B&Q, but that's what I would call normal, rather than basic. Certainly not bad in any way. If someone wanted to come and replace my 25 year old kitchen with a free B&Q one I would be over the moon. Changing every 10 to 15 years sounds about right from what we saw.
Thanks for responding.

If it's a 3-bed and he's living on his own I'm surprised he's not being asked to move or having his Housing Benefit cut (as he is technically "underoccupying")
He died about 5 years ago so not still living in it. It was the family home so initially 2 adults 2 kids. The kids both left home in the late 80's so it was just the two of them until they eventually died.

I've no idea how the finances worked, other than he never worked in the entire time I knew him, so all he had was benefits. They had a newer car than us (owned from new), and their house was bigger. UK only holidays though so they didn't tick every stereotype!

We live two streets away, in a two bed place which needed a rop to bottom refurb (which I did when not working). When I needed more space for kids I had to work harder/longer to pay for an extension (and I did most of the work).

As you can guess we really didn't get on.