Discussion
It's easy to believe that everything is terrible and the world is going to the dogs if you pay attention to the media...
Saying "things could be better, but it ain't that bad" doesn't sell papers/generate clicks. Saying the opposite does. And hey, you've got to fill that rolling 24 hour news with something, right?
Don't pay attention to the doom mongers: think about the things that are good in your lie, go for a walk in the countryside, go for a drive (not in rush hour!), have a beer, read a good book.
Do whatever floats your boat, and don't pay attention to all the bad things we are constantly force fed with and you'll realise that the world is not so bad, it's just your perception that has been skewed.
If you're reading this you probably have enough to eat. And somewhere to live. And a few quid in the bank. Vast parts of the world are not so lucky.
Saying "things could be better, but it ain't that bad" doesn't sell papers/generate clicks. Saying the opposite does. And hey, you've got to fill that rolling 24 hour news with something, right?
Don't pay attention to the doom mongers: think about the things that are good in your lie, go for a walk in the countryside, go for a drive (not in rush hour!), have a beer, read a good book.
Do whatever floats your boat, and don't pay attention to all the bad things we are constantly force fed with and you'll realise that the world is not so bad, it's just your perception that has been skewed.
If you're reading this you probably have enough to eat. And somewhere to live. And a few quid in the bank. Vast parts of the world are not so lucky.
ChocolateFrog said:
sidewinder500 said:
Some interesting posts have been started the last couple of days/weeks reg broken britain, homelessness, how fragile is your life etc, which makes me wonder if we are in a steep decline from some 'golden years'.
There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
I don't agree with any of that. We've never been fatter, schooling has been dumbed down and pared back to the bone, life expectancy has fallen since Covid and only a few are wealthier, most are poorer.There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
Faust66 said:
It's easy to believe that everything is terrible and the world is going to the dogs if you pay attention to the media...
Saying "things could be better, but it ain't that bad" doesn't sell papers/generate clicks. Saying the opposite does. And hey, you've got to fill that rolling 24 hour news with something, right?
Don't pay attention to the doom mongers: think about the things that are good in your lie, go for a walk in the countryside, go for a drive (not in rush hour!), have a beer, read a good book.
Do whatever floats your boat, and don't pay attention to all the bad things we are constantly force fed with and you'll realise that the world is not so bad, it's just your perception that has been skewed.
If you're reading this you probably have enough to eat. And somewhere to live. And a few quid in the bank. Vast parts of the world are not so lucky.
It's a fair point and I agree to some degree.Saying "things could be better, but it ain't that bad" doesn't sell papers/generate clicks. Saying the opposite does. And hey, you've got to fill that rolling 24 hour news with something, right?
Don't pay attention to the doom mongers: think about the things that are good in your lie, go for a walk in the countryside, go for a drive (not in rush hour!), have a beer, read a good book.
Do whatever floats your boat, and don't pay attention to all the bad things we are constantly force fed with and you'll realise that the world is not so bad, it's just your perception that has been skewed.
If you're reading this you probably have enough to eat. And somewhere to live. And a few quid in the bank. Vast parts of the world are not so lucky.
However you don't need to read or listen to the media to know no extra money is coming in but many things have increased by 50% or more in the last 5 years. Getting doctors and dentists appointments is either harder or impossible. Infrastructure is degrading, anti-social behaviour is getting worse.
It's great going for a walk and pretending it isn't happening but reality bites hard and often at the moment.
Listening to a podcast at the moment about Hitler and there's definitely some similarities to the 1930's with the likes of Trump and Johnson and the general mood.
Going to be a interesting decade or two.
Fast and Spurious said:
ChocolateFrog said:
sidewinder500 said:
Some interesting posts have been started the last couple of days/weeks reg broken britain, homelessness, how fragile is your life etc, which makes me wonder if we are in a steep decline from some 'golden years'.
There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
I don't agree with any of that. We've never been fatter, schooling has been dumbed down and pared back to the bone, life expectancy has fallen since Covid and only a few are wealthier, most are poorer.There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
Pretty meaningless if you include the whole world when some countries have life expectancies in the 40's or GDP per capita in the hundreds.
ChocolateFrog said:
It's not unreasonable to apply the logic to the UK rather than the world as whole.
Pretty meaningless if you include the whole world when some countries have life expectancies in the 40's or GDP per capita in the hundreds.
it is unreasonable when the thread is entitled ‘peak mankind’ and not e.g. ‘peak uk’, and when the central question posed in the OP was ‘but did we achieve peak mankind already?’Pretty meaningless if you include the whole world when some countries have life expectancies in the 40's or GDP per capita in the hundreds.
Difficult topic - but I agree with the OP.
I'm 35, a fairly simple human being but have observed decline over the past decade - especially when it comes to standards / quality of life.
I envisage that humans will eventually destroy themselves - the reason I say this is because although everyone is calling for change, we still cant avoid our habits; population is increasing, everybody still wants the latest tech / cars.etc
Look at the quality of the majority of new housing stock for example - quickly built, nowhere near the amount of garden space you would have had in a house built 100 years ago (mining / terraced housing stock aside)
Population, consumerism & greed are the key points for me.
Services have been in decline for a long time, held up by large wads of cash being thrown in - I think we are now getting to the point where its unsustainable and there wont be much money to throw around.
Personally I'm now living in a cycle of borderline depression - or it may actually be depression, I'm not sure - and I'm doing OK.
Been in employment for the past 15 years, have always thought long term so am fortunate to own a house, have a 2 year old that I adore, but constantly aware of financial pressures - yet my workload has increased and have more responsibility (partly my own fault for not finding better employment).
For me - the peak was the early 2000's, granted I was a kid, but the world seemed a very different place with lots of positivity - now its just a constant bombardment of bad news & decline.
Maybe I have the wrong outlook, and should be fortunate we aren't living in a war zone.
I'm 35, a fairly simple human being but have observed decline over the past decade - especially when it comes to standards / quality of life.
I envisage that humans will eventually destroy themselves - the reason I say this is because although everyone is calling for change, we still cant avoid our habits; population is increasing, everybody still wants the latest tech / cars.etc
Look at the quality of the majority of new housing stock for example - quickly built, nowhere near the amount of garden space you would have had in a house built 100 years ago (mining / terraced housing stock aside)
Population, consumerism & greed are the key points for me.
Services have been in decline for a long time, held up by large wads of cash being thrown in - I think we are now getting to the point where its unsustainable and there wont be much money to throw around.
Personally I'm now living in a cycle of borderline depression - or it may actually be depression, I'm not sure - and I'm doing OK.
Been in employment for the past 15 years, have always thought long term so am fortunate to own a house, have a 2 year old that I adore, but constantly aware of financial pressures - yet my workload has increased and have more responsibility (partly my own fault for not finding better employment).
For me - the peak was the early 2000's, granted I was a kid, but the world seemed a very different place with lots of positivity - now its just a constant bombardment of bad news & decline.
Maybe I have the wrong outlook, and should be fortunate we aren't living in a war zone.
I think what what a lot are taking about is a failure of capitalism to optimise for quality of life over financial returns.
We have a society that’s prioritising the wrong thing. Of course the returns are needed to procure the quality of life but they’re not a sane end in themselves.
I live that my post is the one with the advert next to it.
We have a society that’s prioritising the wrong thing. Of course the returns are needed to procure the quality of life but they’re not a sane end in themselves.
I live that my post is the one with the advert next to it.
Edited by PlywoodPascal on Wednesday 3rd July 10:34
I'll say this with the obvious caveat that I'm in my mid-40s, so the late 90s / early 00s was my late teens, early 20s period, so in my mind it was sunny every day, it just so happens the best films and music was made etc etc.
That out the way, IMO the last peak of humanity was around the mid-90s to '9/11', certainly in Britian anyway.
The Cold War had ended, so we didn't have to worry about being evaporated by an ICBM.
The 'Troubles' had ended, so we didn't have to worry about being blown up by half a tonne of fertiliser hidden in a transit van.
The Yugoslav wars ended, well sort of, but were winding up marking the end of a period of conflict in Europe that had been raging in one way or other 200 BC or something.
Whatever your political persuasion, or indeed what happened later, the New Labour era came in with a huge amount of optimism and economic positivity, 'Cool Britania'.
Technology wise, there was enough of it to make life easier - the internet was there if you wanted it, e-mail made work a lot simpler, mobile phones were cheap, but it felt more in tune with humanity, we certainly weren't slaves to it.
It didn't all end with 9/11, but a lot of the optimism did, we were again thrown back into a cycle of wars and economic turmoil that's still with us.
I consider the UK now, SM has in some way reversed thousands of years of Human science and discovery, because you can choose to believe anything you want, and someone will provide you with all the 'evidence' to prove it. People think the Earth is flat ffs. Live expectancy growth has stopped and may go into reverse, WW3 is a real possibility in the next few years, the UK is a mess and there are no easy solutions, there aren't even many hard ones. Young People who are the age I was in the late 90s are miserable, utter enslaved by their devices, paranoid and stressed trying to compete with unobtainable fiction and it's hard to be young and stupid, because information is forever now, you do something rash and stupid as a teenager, like you're supposed to, and it's forever.
That out the way, IMO the last peak of humanity was around the mid-90s to '9/11', certainly in Britian anyway.
The Cold War had ended, so we didn't have to worry about being evaporated by an ICBM.
The 'Troubles' had ended, so we didn't have to worry about being blown up by half a tonne of fertiliser hidden in a transit van.
The Yugoslav wars ended, well sort of, but were winding up marking the end of a period of conflict in Europe that had been raging in one way or other 200 BC or something.
Whatever your political persuasion, or indeed what happened later, the New Labour era came in with a huge amount of optimism and economic positivity, 'Cool Britania'.
Technology wise, there was enough of it to make life easier - the internet was there if you wanted it, e-mail made work a lot simpler, mobile phones were cheap, but it felt more in tune with humanity, we certainly weren't slaves to it.
It didn't all end with 9/11, but a lot of the optimism did, we were again thrown back into a cycle of wars and economic turmoil that's still with us.
I consider the UK now, SM has in some way reversed thousands of years of Human science and discovery, because you can choose to believe anything you want, and someone will provide you with all the 'evidence' to prove it. People think the Earth is flat ffs. Live expectancy growth has stopped and may go into reverse, WW3 is a real possibility in the next few years, the UK is a mess and there are no easy solutions, there aren't even many hard ones. Young People who are the age I was in the late 90s are miserable, utter enslaved by their devices, paranoid and stressed trying to compete with unobtainable fiction and it's hard to be young and stupid, because information is forever now, you do something rash and stupid as a teenager, like you're supposed to, and it's forever.
Skeptisk said:
Without defining what you mean by “peak” it is not really possible to comment. Peak happiness? Peak technology? Peak health? Peak peace (absence of wars and conflict)? Peak sustainability?
Peak mankind, simple as that.I'm well aware that in former times people died at 35ish, be it because of insufficient medication or war or any other reason.
As well, technology brought certain by-products (like sustainability, which was never an issue before), and a lot of comfort, and AI can do things beyond imagination, but in general is it better for mankind as a whole?
Happiness is way too personal for generalisation, so I can't possibly except an answer.
As said from other posters, western society is downhill ever so subtle (or not), and slavery is still existing even in developed parts of the world, but world hunger/health/alphabetism etc is definitely better compared to former times, so there should be reason to cheer.
What I'm trying to grasp is, if we as society and world community have reached the zenith, or can we still except fundamental changes for positive development?
Or was everything better in the early 80s...? Formula 1 was, that's for sure...
Most businesses/products follow a curve and at some point the curve starts to drop off, unless things are reinvented. It is probably the same for economies.
Currently we have a lot of Western (plus Eastern -eg Japan,) economies that have matured and have hit the peak.
It is possible that the saviour will be AI. It has the potential to rejuvenate the economy and make us more efficient and effective.
I am not holding my breath. When I look back over the last 20-25 years, the computer revolution hasn't boosted GDP where it really should have. And if you look at GDP per capita, adjusted for inflation, we have been pretty static.
Perhaps now is the time to stop chasing economic growth and look at quality of life as a measure of achievement.
If I was just starting out, I would be looking at a trade for a career, such as electrician. AI can provide a wiring diagram, but not physically do an installation.
Currently we have a lot of Western (plus Eastern -eg Japan,) economies that have matured and have hit the peak.
It is possible that the saviour will be AI. It has the potential to rejuvenate the economy and make us more efficient and effective.
I am not holding my breath. When I look back over the last 20-25 years, the computer revolution hasn't boosted GDP where it really should have. And if you look at GDP per capita, adjusted for inflation, we have been pretty static.
Perhaps now is the time to stop chasing economic growth and look at quality of life as a measure of achievement.
If I was just starting out, I would be looking at a trade for a career, such as electrician. AI can provide a wiring diagram, but not physically do an installation.
The greedy at the top hoard wealth like dragons. Not beneficial. Nobody needs a billion pounds.
This, coupled with misinformation from our 'enemies' and our own media to distract us from the real issues are bringing about a big shift that is already destabilising our way of life in the west but we don't see it because we're too busy being convinced to be racist, which is precisely what they want.
Social media statistics make for some very interesting reading these days...
This, coupled with misinformation from our 'enemies' and our own media to distract us from the real issues are bringing about a big shift that is already destabilising our way of life in the west but we don't see it because we're too busy being convinced to be racist, which is precisely what they want.
Social media statistics make for some very interesting reading these days...
LimaDelta said:
dave123456 said:
There is a contention that we will end up with 2 tiers of human beings.
The ones who want to get up and do s
t and the ones who want to sit, eat and be kept alive.
Not a new idea.The ones who want to get up and do s
t and the ones who want to sit, eat and be kept alive.Morlocks and Eloi. - H G Wells, The Time Machine, c1895
LimaDelta said:
dave123456 said:
There is a contention that we will end up with 2 tiers of human beings.
The ones who want to get up and do st and the ones who want to sit, eat and be kept alive.
Not a new idea.The ones who want to get up and do s
t and the ones who want to sit, eat and be kept alive.Morlocks and Eloi. - H G Wells, The Time Machine, c1895
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