Private schools, times a changing?

[NDA]

It's also worth noting that business rate relief is also going to be scrapped by Labour - which is going to be a substantial additional cost.

[CS Garth]

Louis Balfour said:

CS Garth said:

TownIdiot said:

My point being that it won't matter for the 24/25 school year.

25/26 and beyond would be a gamble, and I'd imagine it is really very rare to pay multiple years in advance.

I hear you but if they announced anti-forestalling measures it could be that 24/25 are within the scope of VAT.

How?

This summarises the machinations of the legislative situation in 2010 and is the main anti-forestalling VAT precedent.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-time-...

[CS Garth]

TownIdiot said:

CS Garth said:

I hear you but if they announced anti-forestalling measures it could be that 24/25 are within the scope of VAT.

They have already said they won't bring it in for this coming year

I don’t trust any politicians I’m afraid.

[Louis Balfour]

CS Garth said:

Louis Balfour said:

CS Garth said:

TownIdiot said:

My point being that it won't matter for the 24/25 school year.

25/26 and beyond would be a gamble, and I'd imagine it is really very rare to pay multiple years in advance.

I hear you but if they announced anti-forestalling measures it could be that 24/25 are within the scope of VAT.

How?

This summarises the machinations of the legislative situation in 2010 and is the main anti-forestalling VAT precedent.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-time-...

Sure, but Labour has said that VAT won't be introduced until September 2025. There is no forestalling if fees are paid in 2024 for the 2024-2025 school year, as far as I am aware.

[TownIdiot]

CS Garth said:

I don’t trust any politicians I’m afraid.

I can understand this.
It doesn't seem like something to lose any sleep over in this instance.

[CS Garth]

Louis Balfour said:

Sure, but Labour has said that VAT won't be introduced until September 2025. There is no forestalling if fees are paid in 2024 for the 2024-2025 school year, as far as I am aware.

This story is from 3 hours ago. If Labour win VAT will be applied from the time of their first budget in September 2024 facilitated by anti-forestalling measures.

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/labour-to-close-vat-...

[TownIdiot]

CS Garth said:

This story is from 3 hours ago. If Labour win VAT will be applied from the time of their first budget in September 2024 facilitated by anti-forestalling measures.

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/labour-to-close-vat-...

Applying to fees from school year 25/26 onwards

[Louis Balfour]

CS Garth said:

Louis Balfour said:

Sure, but Labour has said that VAT won't be introduced until September 2025. There is no forestalling if fees are paid in 2024 for the 2024-2025 school year, as far as I am aware.

This story is from 3 hours ago. If Labour win VAT will be applied from the time of their first budget in September 2024 facilitated by anti-forestalling measures.

https://bmmagazine.co.uk/news/labour-to-close-vat-...

Not according to the article you posted.

article said:

he anti-forestalling legislation would ensure that any fees paid in advance for education provided after the VAT comes into force will still be subject to the tax.

So fees paid in 2024 for 2024/2025 would not be subject to VAT.

[CS Garth]

Louis Balfour said:

So fees paid in 2024 for 2024/2025 would not be subject to VAT.

Sorry I miss read you’re quite right.

[loafer123]

NDA said:

It's also worth noting that business rate relief is also going to be scrapped by Labour - which is going to be a substantial additional cost.

Depends what the valuation methodology is…if it’s profits method, they won’t be high.

[soxboy]

loafer123 said:

NDA said:

It's also worth noting that business rate relief is also going to be scrapped by Labour - which is going to be a substantial additional cost.

Depends what the valuation methodology is…if it’s profits method, they won’t be high.

I would have expected DRC method. I might have to get back into rating if there’s opportunity there.

[Mikebentley]

Our school have released a letter outlining next years fees from Sept 2024 and the following years fees from Sept 2025 to 2026. They have effectively added approx 9.7% to what we paid this year and the following year 2025/26 have applied a maximum cap of 10% again. This is all subject to interest rates remaining below 3.8%. These increases also are to include any VAT applied by a Labour government as part of its planned policy.

2023/24 £17295.00 per annum
2024/25 £18975.00 per annum including any VAT
2025/26 £20872.50 per annum including any VAT

Part of me feels they are trying to be helpful but the 9.7% next year strikes me as a knee jerk reaction to the threat of VAT which apparently now won’t happen until 2025/26 year. I feel they should reconsider this and reduce to maybe a 3 or 4% rise next year. My son leaves before 2026/27 year but if they push prices up as proposed that year would be £25047.00 pa which is an enormous rise from £17295 this year.

[Gecko1978]

Mikebentley said:

Our school have released a letter outlining next years fees from Sept 2024 and the following years fees from Sept 2025 to 2026. They have effectively added approx 9.7% to what we paid this year and the following year 2025/26 have applied a maximum cap of 10% again. This is all subject to interest rates remaining below 3.8%. These increases also are to include any VAT applied by a Labour government as part of its planned policy.

2023/24 £17295.00 per annum
2024/25 £18975.00 per annum including any VAT
2025/26 £20872.50 per annum including any VAT

Part of me feels they are trying to be helpful but the 9.7% next year strikes me as a knee jerk reaction to the threat of VAT which apparently now won’t happen until 2025/26 year. I feel they should reconsider this and reduce to maybe a 3 or 4% rise next year. My son leaves before 2026/27 year but if they push prices up as proposed that year would be £25047.00 pa which is an enormous rise from £17295 this year.

I thought it was interesting Kier Starmer saying schools struggle to it's right private schools struggle....so less of making it better just worse for me lol. The issue as I see it will be the free places or supported places for kids will go. So ensuring even more kids don't get support they need.

If you want to improve state schools make teaching more attractive cut spending in one area an move it to education. EV subsidies for example won't you think of the children an all that. But harming some kids to help others seems silly

[TUS373]

Interesting discussions between teachers and pupils at the fee paying school my son attends. Life long labour voters themselves, but naturally very much against VAT on the school fees..so they are not voting for Labour. No surprise Sherlock.

The more I see of Starmer, the more I think he is Startlefart. He looks very lost on a podium and a puppet of the party. I'm actually looking forward to the election.

[DonkeyApple]

Tom8 said:

Will we end up with funny schemes to avoid it? I like the idea of schools becoming membership clubs, to be a member you have to buy a blazer for £15k and your fees are "free" and no VAT as it is school uniform which is exempt.

I'm not sure that is too likely but what I suspect will happen is that schools start separating out items in their invoicing as there are large elements of the costs that wouldn't be VATable,

[Tom8]

I see in his latest interview, Starmer says it won't impact schools or families and schools will just swallow it up. And he says Sunak is out of touch?

[Zolvaro]

TUS373 said:

Interesting discussions between teachers and pupils at the fee paying school my son attends. Life long labour voters themselves, but naturally very much against VAT on the school fees..so they are not voting for Labour. No surprise Sherlock.

Sounds like a lot of labour voters I know, happy to spend other peoples money, not so keen when that money has to come from anywhere near them.

[Tom8]

Zolvaro said:

TUS373 said:

Interesting discussions between teachers and pupils at the fee paying school my son attends. Life long labour voters themselves, but naturally very much against VAT on the school fees..so they are not voting for Labour. No surprise Sherlock.

Sounds like a lot of labour voters I know, happy to spend other peoples money, not so keen when that money has to come from anywhere near them.

So true! Funny how they go on about spending but never offer up anything extra themselves to the tax man and complain when new taxes impact them.

[zorba_the_greek]

Very narrow minded by Labour. If it backfires will heads roll?


Petition at 170k now.

https://www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-2...

[Zolvaro]

zorba_the_greek said:

Very narrow minded by Labour. If it backfires will heads roll?


Petition at 170k now.

https://www.change.org/p/stop-labour-from-adding-2...

They won't it's a niche issue that play wells with their core voters, and to be honest it's a reasonable policy, I would however have introduced it in say 5% steps rather than all in one go to to help parents adjust, 20% rise in one go is pretty harsh.