Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
I don't think any significant fall in waiting lists will be related to the 20% potential rise in fees to be honest. I suspect it's more likely to be related to the end of free money, rising concerns re employment security and mortgage costs. Plenty of people just about to start out on what is a huge commitment will have been in work meetings over the last 12 months about cutting head count, many have no real property equity and large mortgages due to having missed getting on the ladder before the big jump. Many have had a working life where haemorrhaging income on lifestyle was seen as somehow normal and many are still reliant on parental support.
Looking around at how the slightly younger people around me have been spending faster than they earn since graduating trying to match their senior colleagues and peers it strikes me as entirely plausible that the cost rises of the last couple of years are causing more than expected to drop out from the desire to be seen at a particular set of school gates?
Maybe very different outside of London but lots have been putting their children down on lists just because the Jones's have been.
Looking around at how the slightly younger people around me have been spending faster than they earn since graduating trying to match their senior colleagues and peers it strikes me as entirely plausible that the cost rises of the last couple of years are causing more than expected to drop out from the desire to be seen at a particular set of school gates?
Maybe very different outside of London but lots have been putting their children down on lists just because the Jones's have been.
M1AGM said:
More guff and trolling. Keyboard warriors of your ilk are tedious I give you that and no I dont read the telegraph, although the assumption makes you look like a dick. No considered response to my post on the evidence provided by the article (not that your opinion is required again, its been repeated ad nauseam on here for months), just your own prejudice as always. What happened to your previous position that this policy would get private school parents to somehow make their local comp better by forcing them into ‘the system’, that has gone a bit quiet eh, because that was hilarious, keep doubling down with your buzzwords, your chip is clear to see, its only you that seems to be oblivious, using this thread to repeatedly try and make yourself feel better about whatever your own small mindedness has got you so worked up about. You let the mask slip before when you posted a rant about your bosses being from privilege, be careful comrade. I look forward to the usual deflective reply which will get ignored because it adds no value to the topic just more grrr wealthy/privilege/elites etc etc. Maybe go play with the other trolls and leave the grownups to discuss matters.
Word salad but I'll pick out the healthy pieces and respond.I have no chip but I understand how it could look that way.
Did I say that? I think you're reading someone else. I think those that would ignore others for the defence of their own are understandable but not defendable. I realise you don't understand the difference, because you're not the sharpest tool in the box. Now I've just insulted you.
Justifiably.
But I'll respond to your stupid set of questions. You're defending privilege. I'm not. Good luck with that, especially when privileges are unearned which I suspect is the reason you get so vehement on this subject.
cheesejunkie said:
Word salad but I'll pick out the healthy pieces and respond.
I have no chip but I understand how it could look that way.
Did I say that? I think you're reading someone else. I think those that would ignore others for the defence of their own are understandable but not defendable. I realise you don't understand the difference, because you're not the sharpest tool in the box. Now I've just insulted you.
Justifiably.
But I'll respond to your stupid set of questions. You're defending privilege. I'm not. Good luck with that, especially when privileges are unearned which I suspect is the reason you get so vehement on this subject.
I am not sure I understand the privilege part - education has always been VAT free, now the likely incoming government want to apply VAT to certain forms of education but not all. I have no chip but I understand how it could look that way.
Did I say that? I think you're reading someone else. I think those that would ignore others for the defence of their own are understandable but not defendable. I realise you don't understand the difference, because you're not the sharpest tool in the box. Now I've just insulted you.
Justifiably.
But I'll respond to your stupid set of questions. You're defending privilege. I'm not. Good luck with that, especially when privileges are unearned which I suspect is the reason you get so vehement on this subject.
The one form of education that seems to lead to preferential treatment is university, so from a privilege point of view that should be the one to target as it perpetuates a form of elitism surely?
Zaichik said:
I am not sure I understand the privilege part - education has always been VAT free, now the likely incoming government want to apply VAT to certain forms of education but not all.
The one form of education that seems to lead to preferential treatment is university, so from a privilege point of view that should be the one to target as it perpetuates a form of elitism surely?
Education used to be free. A labour government made it costly at third level and a tory government supported that.The one form of education that seems to lead to preferential treatment is university, so from a privilege point of view that should be the one to target as it perpetuates a form of elitism surely?
I have reasons for thinking they're both wrong but they're outside my private education school argument. Vat on PE is not a game changer but it's long overdue given the realities of funding differences between private and public schools. You can choose who to blame, you can't claim there's a government supported difference. You can't defend VAT free for you and not for them.
cheesejunkie said:
Education used to be free. A labour government made it costly at third level and a tory government supported that.
I have reasons for thinking they're both wrong but they're outside my private education school argument. Vat on PE is not a game changer but it's long overdue given the realities of funding differences between private and public schools. You can choose who to blame, you can't claim there's a government supported difference. You can't defend VAT free for you and not for them.
I am not sure University education was ever 'free'. Someone was having to pay for it. I have reasons for thinking they're both wrong but they're outside my private education school argument. Vat on PE is not a game changer but it's long overdue given the realities of funding differences between private and public schools. You can choose who to blame, you can't claim there's a government supported difference. You can't defend VAT free for you and not for them.
I have no problem with state funding education at any level as I have no problem with private funded choices too. My issue is an apparent unfairness in application of taxation - make it fair/equitable or don't have it. In the case of education I find it hard to equate taxing education with fairness and once they start down a route of taxing something only the rich pay, eventually it will be all of us.
In all these discussions about potential increases in all forms of tax, no one anywhere is suggesting that we perhaps have too much government, too much public service and perhaps we should consider just how much as a nation we can really afford? At some point we will run out of rich people in this nation and we will need to look to other nations...
Zaichik said:
I am not sure University education was ever 'free'. Someone was having to pay for it.
I have no problem with state funding education at any level as I have no problem with private funded choices too. My issue is an apparent unfairness in application of taxation - make it fair/equitable or don't have it. In the case of education I find it hard to equate taxing education with fairness and once they start down a route of taxing something only the rich pay, eventually it will be all of us.
In all these discussions about potential increases in all forms of tax, no one anywhere is suggesting that we perhaps have too much government, too much public service and perhaps we should consider just how much as a nation we can really afford? At some point we will run out of rich people in this nation and we will need to look to other nations...
We have different definitions of fair. That's fine as long as you don't assume should accept yours.I have no problem with state funding education at any level as I have no problem with private funded choices too. My issue is an apparent unfairness in application of taxation - make it fair/equitable or don't have it. In the case of education I find it hard to equate taxing education with fairness and once they start down a route of taxing something only the rich pay, eventually it will be all of us.
In all these discussions about potential increases in all forms of tax, no one anywhere is suggesting that we perhaps have too much government, too much public service and perhaps we should consider just how much as a nation we can really afford? At some point we will run out of rich people in this nation and we will need to look to other nations...
I think you're full of it when suggesting taking something only the rich pay will eventually be spread to all of is. I think you're a disease.
In all these discussions now one is suggesting we have a rich elite that seeks to remove an elected responsible people who think that their wealth justifies their opinion when it's usually bulls
t. Can we afford governments in hock to wealth, I don't think so.cheesejunkie said:
We have different definitions of fair. That's fine as long as you don't assume should accept yours.
I think you're full of it when suggesting taking something only the rich pay will eventually be spread to all of is. I think you're a disease.
In all these discussions now one is suggesting we have a rich elite that seeks to remove an elected responsible people who think that their wealth justifies their opinion when it's usually bullst. Can we afford governments in hock to wealth, I don't think so.
Fair is always a personal view which is why phrases like 'paying their fair share' are pretty meaningless.I think you're full of it when suggesting taking something only the rich pay will eventually be spread to all of is. I think you're a disease.
In all these discussions now one is suggesting we have a rich elite that seeks to remove an elected responsible people who think that their wealth justifies their opinion when it's usually bulls
t. Can we afford governments in hock to wealth, I don't think so.In terms of being full of it suggesting that a tax only the rich will pay will eventually spread to all of us, perhaps you are right as I only have one example of this off the top of my head which is the higher rate income tax.
I am a bit surprised you think not wanting ever increased taxes is a disease. It would seem to me to be completely rational.
Boggles my mind that people live in the mindset of preserve my privilege, dodge tax, breed and indoctrinate them to be just like me.
I have paid millions of pounds in tax, hundreds of thousands annually, and my only concern is that it's being spent by the fking Tories and not by a political party that actually gives a st about egalitarianism.
I have paid millions of pounds in tax, hundreds of thousands annually, and my only concern is that it's being spent by the f
king Tories and not by a political party that actually gives a st about egalitarianism.NDA said:
I've heard the same in my area - some excellent schools are going to struggle to stay open.
State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
The irony being that the children who REALLY need to be provided with free breakfasts won’t benefit because (sadly) they’re the ones either not at school, or not at school in time to benefit. So the whole thing benefits kids who would have otherwise had breakfast at home i.e. all it’s doing is moving money from higher to lower earners, and doing nothing to prevent child hunger.State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
cheesejunkie said:
NDA said:
I've heard the same in my area - some excellent schools are going to struggle to stay open.
State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
How? I think you're lying.State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
How are they going to struggle to stay open. No funding has been cut.
"It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money"
What would they be paying for if it wasn't cut?
Dwayne and chardonnay are not asking for your privilege and will do fine without it.
I think I can have fun with the railing. I may understand it but I think you have more fun with unearned privilege.
It's not going to cost taxpayers a lot of money. It's arguably a class issue. It's not an expensive one. Never will be.
Surviving private schools will become more elite, taxpayers will be paying more and there will be larger class sizes within the state system. But, yeah, end privilege innit. Hilarious.
Zaichik said:
cheesejunkie said:
Word salad but I'll pick out the healthy pieces and respond.
I have no chip but I understand how it could look that way.
Did I say that? I think you're reading someone else. I think those that would ignore others for the defence of their own are understandable but not defendable. I realise you don't understand the difference, because you're not the sharpest tool in the box. Now I've just insulted you.
Justifiably.
But I'll respond to your stupid set of questions. You're defending privilege. I'm not. Good luck with that, especially when privileges are unearned which I suspect is the reason you get so vehement on this subject.
I am not sure I understand the privilege part - education has always been VAT free, now the likely incoming government want to apply VAT to certain forms of education but not all. I have no chip but I understand how it could look that way.
Did I say that? I think you're reading someone else. I think those that would ignore others for the defence of their own are understandable but not defendable. I realise you don't understand the difference, because you're not the sharpest tool in the box. Now I've just insulted you.
Justifiably.
But I'll respond to your stupid set of questions. You're defending privilege. I'm not. Good luck with that, especially when privileges are unearned which I suspect is the reason you get so vehement on this subject.
The one form of education that seems to lead to preferential treatment is university, so from a privilege point of view that should be the one to target as it perpetuates a form of elitism surely?
Cheers
NDA said:
cheesejunkie said:
NDA said:
I've heard the same in my area - some excellent schools are going to struggle to stay open.
State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
How? I think you're lying.State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
How are they going to struggle to stay open. No funding has been cut.
"It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money"
What would they be paying for if it wasn't cut?
Dwayne and chardonnay are not asking for your privilege and will do fine without it.
I think I can have fun with the railing. I may understand it but I think you have more fun with unearned privilege.
It's not going to cost taxpayers a lot of money. It's arguably a class issue. It's not an expensive one. Never will be.
Surviving private schools will become more elite, taxpayers will be paying more and there will be larger class sizes within the state system. But, yeah, end privilege innit. Hilarious.
The current mood of the country is to protect feelings of various groups and generate respect for them. Except when it comes to 'rich kids' who are 'privileged' it seems. There is a very real situation on the horizon that is going to hurt people and I mean the kids that leave, not the ones that can afford to stay.
numtumfutunch said:
If you think a degree in origami from the university of Fullchester gives the same privilege as an education at Winchester College then I want a pint of whatever you are drinking
Cheers
of course it doesn't and attending a private school doesn't mean you are in some kind of old boys network that automatically gets you into top jobs.Cheers
I attended a private boarding school (fully paid for by UK taxpayers) and asides from giving me an reasonable education with good facilities it mainly just meant I didnt have to go to school in the 80s in places like the Soviet Union, West Africa and Afghanistan - though I was able to enjoy all of these in the school holidays and collect some souvenirs such as malaria, disentry and becoming mildly radioactive for a period of time.
Getting to university still took the same O and A levels and beyond university, the school I went to never made a blind bit of difference.
Good point. There's a big number of kids in private education who's parents are in the armed forces. The parents are based all over the world and kids board. Will the VAT apply to the whole school bill or just the education element? Either way, big bills coming for those in the forces or the forces themselves if they sub it.
TUS373 said:
Good point. There's a big number of kids in private education who's parents are in the armed forces. The parents are based all over the world and kids board. Will the VAT apply to the whole school bill or just the education element? Either way, big bills coming for those in the forces or the forces themselves if they sub it.
Not a particularly big bill, there's not many forces kids in boarding. Vat it'll be maybe £15m more on the MoDs bill. TUS373 said:
The current mood of the country is to protect feelings of various groups and generate respect for them. Except when it comes to 'rich kids' who are 'privileged' it seems.
I think there is a real hate that has brewed within the consumer society after nearly two decades of people just watching fantasy lifestyles online or on television. People have become more divorced from reality than ever before. Add to that this new and voluntary underclass of the conspiracy theorist and there just seem to be so many rage filled people who blame anyone based on what objects/lifestyle they perceive. They've been told for years that they were being oppressed, first by the EU, then by bankers, next it was immigrants then 'mainstream media' just one bogie man after another allegedly oppressing the masses. And these particular folks who wouldn't know the meaning of poverty or oppression and who don't give a single crap about those in society genuinely struggling and in need of help are just frothing because they want more objects in exchange for doing less work. The new affluent underclass who are demanding the things that should be going to the less fortunate while blaming anyone they deem more fortunate.
These are the people you eventually see shouting at people's children because of their illness.
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