Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
jshell said:
Louis Balfour said:
jshell said:
okgo said:
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems. My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
Louis Balfour said:
It's a long time since I looked at it. But IIRC my concerns were that I'd grow bored of the rural charms and then be taxed to death when the deal ended.
A friend of mine was talking about leaving his two eldest where they are but bailing out to Barcelona with the two youngest, so I don't think you have to condemn yourself to village life to do the move. Just made the last monthly payment as that’s my daughter finishing later this month.
She’s been there since P6(Scotland) so 8 years and I think the costs have doubled since she started.
Has it been a good decision? Yes think it has she done fairly well from someone not really academic and loved all the others things it had to offer.
Don’t think we could afford to do it nowadays if the VAT kicks in. Will be interesting to see what happens here in Edinburgh with 25% privately educated.
She’s been there since P6(Scotland) so 8 years and I think the costs have doubled since she started.
Has it been a good decision? Yes think it has she done fairly well from someone not really academic and loved all the others things it had to offer.
Don’t think we could afford to do it nowadays if the VAT kicks in. Will be interesting to see what happens here in Edinburgh with 25% privately educated.
DonkeyApple said:
S600BSB said:
Cheaper to just pay the VAT than move house. It’s what most of us will do.
Indeed but the 'moving home' element is what comes down the line when people with young children come to making the key decision as to how to educate their children. Those are the people who will be incentivised more now to bid up properties in key catchment areas, more so than has already been occurring for the last decade or more. Especially with WFH and t
t capabilities making it even easier to favour locating the home to benefit the children's schooling over the office commute. Especially when blokes realise that renting a flat in the centre of town that gets used just mid week with a couple of old uni mates is a hell of a lot more fun than spending hours commuting and costs barely two terms of fees in London. 
S600BSB said:
Like the sound of that!
It's the future.Move family to a pleasant part of England and then rent a nice Z2 flat with mates that you use Tue to Thur and is cleaned with fresh bedding by an Airbnb service in your absence. 2 evenings midweek with old mates, talking b
ks in a Samual Smith pub is a pure luxury. 
DonkeyApple said:
Louis Balfour said:
It's a long time since I looked at it. But IIRC my concerns were that I'd grow bored of the rural charms and then be taxed to death when the deal ended.
A friend of mine was talking about leaving his two eldest where they are but bailing out to Barcelona with the two youngest, so I don't think you have to condemn yourself to village life to do the move. Louis Balfour said:
I was referring to a specific Italian deal in Puglia. However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.
Which Puglia is. Nice place to visit, but you wouldnt want to live there.Patch1875 said:
Will be interesting to see what happens here in Edinburgh with 25% privately educated.
Glasgow is hilarious,More income tax, more stamp duty,
All private schools here have increased fees well above inflation and are all expanding (or seeking to).
Natch the new houses close to Jordanhill aren't in its hard bounded catchment, which when the UFLers find out simply means more applications to the private schools.
Oh, and the stats suggest there are more private schools and more pupils everywhere. People will just pay a little more here and there.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024...
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024...
Louis Balfour said:
I was referring to a specific Italian deal in Puglia. However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.
Ah. Personally, I wouldn't go near Puglia. As lovely as it is there is a reason they are trying to attract affluent immigration. The area has always been difficult to get to, even internally the young have a long journey to leave and live in a city to have any future and externally you are at the mercy of people like Michael OLeary as to whether you can arrive or leave. The other slight issue is that it is fast becoming where they deposit thousands of refugees from all the Med crossings. Tens of thousands arrive in Lampedusa and are then distributed into the mainland of which the Puglia region is a core recipient. As an aside, any Brit who is currently emotional over a few rubber dinghies crossing the Channel really ought to go to Sicily and see a real refugee crisis and how there is a genuine problem in Europe.
DonkeyApple said:
Ah. Personally, I wouldn't go near Puglia. As lovely as it is there is a reason they are trying to attract affluent immigration. The area has always been difficult to get to, even internally the young have a long journey to leave and live in a city to have any future and externally you are at the mercy of people like Michael OLeary as to whether you can arrive or leave. The other slight issue is that it is fast becoming where they deposit thousands of refugees from all the Med crossings. Tens of thousands arrive in Lampedusa and are then distributed into the mainland of which the Puglia region is a core recipient.
As an aside, any Brit who is currently emotional over a few rubber dinghies crossing the Channel really ought to go to Sicily and see a real refugee crisis and how there is a genuine problem in Europe.
Agreed with the last line but I try not to get too involved in some commenter's lives on here.As an aside, any Brit who is currently emotional over a few rubber dinghies crossing the Channel really ought to go to Sicily and see a real refugee crisis and how there is a genuine problem in Europe.
I've never been to Puglia but used to think Italy was a place I could happily spend half my retirement in, the other half in the UK. I've worked there, can speak a bit of the lingo, love the food, and like hot weather. My ambitions have switched to Spain for no real reason other than I spend more time there now.
Oh I totally get the O'Leary comment. I've family with holiday homes (I'd never be arsed, I'd rather be flexible) wailing at the cost of getting to wherever it is. Tough s
t. You pays your money and you takes your choice. If you want that holiday home realise some costs aren't in your control.I'll make a very tangential reference that can easily be argued against towards privately funded schools. You decided to support a system that preserves privilege. You can't complain when the table stakes are risen by the dealer. Not aimed at you DA. Buying a getaway in Italy, you can't complain when Ryanair raise their prices. I know how far I'm stretching that analogy and how open to criticism it is. Fire away, I won't mind.
macron said:
Oh, and the stats suggest there are more private schools and more pupils everywhere. People will just pay a little more here and there.
https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024...
Putting aside the Guardian level of journalism these days (its not a tax loophole, the picture is of harrow boys, etc) I thought this merited conversation:https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024...
“But official Department for Education (DfE) data published last week shows that as of this January, the number of pupils in independent schools in England was 593,486, up from 591,954 the year before and an increase of 24,150 on 2020/21.”
Is 1,500 more out of 591,000 significant in a year, and what is the trend? I would argue it’s too early to see the full attrition from this policy because there will be families with children who are already in private school, who have younger siblings who would normally go to the same school, and will be the bulk of the intakes. As a parent you will cut everything you could to afford to do that. Newcomers not so much.
The labour claim that the justification for this envy tax is to recruit 6,500 more teachers has already been dismissed as fantasy as there are over 2,000 teacher vacancies now that cannot be filled and the trend is rising. What we need is an apolitical commission to put together workable policies to fix teacher retention, 40% of teachers quit in the first 2 years. So plenty would have liked to be teaching but gave up after trying. It’s frustrating that all parties seem incapable of being pragmatic over education, which is the future of our nation.
In other news we got an email from school offering a discount for prepayment of fees. The email was very clear it made no guarantees on future tax situations and was not offering financial advice etc. Policy was always no discounts for prepayments so I am quite happy to take the offer, I decided to pay the 2 years of 6th form for the oldest child to finish off 15 years of that commitment. Quite liberating.
Edited by M1AGM on Saturday 15th June 17:00
Edited by M1AGM on Saturday 15th June 17:01
DonkeyApple said:
Louis Balfour said:
I was referring to a specific Italian deal in Puglia. However common sense suggests that any deal, anywhere, is unlikely to be peanuts tax forever. Or at least unless “anywhere” is seriously compromised somehow.
Ah. Personally, I wouldn't go near Puglia. As lovely as it is there is a reason they are trying to attract affluent immigration. The area has always been difficult to get to, even internally the young have a long journey to leave and live in a city to have any future and externally you are at the mercy of people like Michael OLeary as to whether you can arrive or leave. The other slight issue is that it is fast becoming where they deposit thousands of refugees from all the Med crossings. Tens of thousands arrive in Lampedusa and are then distributed into the mainland of which the Puglia region is a core recipient. As an aside, any Brit who is currently emotional over a few rubber dinghies crossing the Channel really ought to go to Sicily and see a real refugee crisis and how there is a genuine problem in Europe.
By odd coincidence I stumbled across this in the FT moments ago.
M1AGM said:
Putting aside the Guardian level of journalism these days (its not a tax loophole, the picture is of harrow boys, etc) I thought this merited conversation:
“But official Department for Education (DfE) data published last week shows that as of this January, the number of pupils in independent schools in England was 593,486, up from 591,954 the year before and an increase of 24,150 on 2020/21.”
Is 1,500 more out of 591,000 significant in a year, and what is the trend? I would argue it’s too early to see the full attrition from this policy because there will be families with children who are already in private school, who have younger siblings who would normally go to the same school, and will be the bulk of the intakes. As a parent you will cut everything you could to afford to do that. Newcomers not so much.
The labour claim that the justification for this envy tax is to recruit 6,500 more teachers has already been dismissed as fantasy as there are over 2,000 teacher vacancies now that cannot be filled and the trend is rising. What we need is an apolitical commission to put together workable policies to fix teacher retention, 40% of teachers quit in the first 2 years. So plenty would have liked to be teaching but gave up after trying. It’s frustrating that all parties seem incapable of being pragmatic over education, which is the future of our nation.
In other news we got an email from school offering a discount for prepayment of fees. The email was very clear it made no guarantees on future tax situations and was not offering financial advice etc. Policy was always no discounts for prepayments so I am quite happy to take the offer, I decided to pay the 2 years of 6th form for the oldest child to finish off 15 years of that commitment. Quite liberating.
Guardian level of journalism instantly makes you look like a dick. I could say the same about the telegraph and be much more accurate. Leave it out.“But official Department for Education (DfE) data published last week shows that as of this January, the number of pupils in independent schools in England was 593,486, up from 591,954 the year before and an increase of 24,150 on 2020/21.”
Is 1,500 more out of 591,000 significant in a year, and what is the trend? I would argue it’s too early to see the full attrition from this policy because there will be families with children who are already in private school, who have younger siblings who would normally go to the same school, and will be the bulk of the intakes. As a parent you will cut everything you could to afford to do that. Newcomers not so much.
The labour claim that the justification for this envy tax is to recruit 6,500 more teachers has already been dismissed as fantasy as there are over 2,000 teacher vacancies now that cannot be filled and the trend is rising. What we need is an apolitical commission to put together workable policies to fix teacher retention, 40% of teachers quit in the first 2 years. So plenty would have liked to be teaching but gave up after trying. It’s frustrating that all parties seem incapable of being pragmatic over education, which is the future of our nation.
In other news we got an email from school offering a discount for prepayment of fees. The email was very clear it made no guarantees on future tax situations and was not offering financial advice etc. Policy was always no discounts for prepayments so I am quite happy to take the offer, I decided to pay the 2 years of 6th form for the oldest child to finish off 15 years of that commitment. Quite liberating.
Edited by M1AGM on Saturday 15th June 17:00
Edited by M1AGM on Saturday 15th June 17:01
It's not an envy tax. That is privileged twit commentary. Envy of what? Ask yourself.
Now in the real world anyone taking their children out of private education now are not doing so because of labour policies. Maybe out of a fear of them but not because of them. No policy has happened yet. Many failing schools are being picked up as causes of labour policies by the right wing press with no evidence because idiots will believe the bulls
t.There won't be a flood, I'm sure of that. There might be a very vocal few.
Why do parents sacrifice many of their earnings rather than supporting the state school system? Because they want advantage. When the advantage becomes more difficult to achieve (guess what you were always dependent on the opinion of others to get it) tough s
t. I don't enjoy the reality dawning but I think it was about time. I also think it won't be as bad as the seers are predicting but they've vested interests in saying it's doom.
Louis Balfour said:
Me neither, but the headline did its job and I looked into it.
By odd coincidence I stumbled across this in the FT moments ago.
Portugal ran one of those after the GFC. I think that at any given time at least one EU member is pitching deals for minted pensioners from elsewhere. We ought to replace the non Dom setup with this sort of thing to get some folks to move to Jaywick and tidy it up? By odd coincidence I stumbled across this in the FT moments ago.
or to just entice retired folk in the SE to head back to the regions?okgo said:
Via a mate - Heard about one of the best schools in the U.K. going through their entire waiting list and then onto reserves to fill a place for September reception - totally unheard of for this to happen - times not looking so good…apart from his kid of course.
I've heard the same in my area - some excellent schools are going to struggle to stay open.State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
cheesejunkie said:
Guardian level of journalism instantly makes you look like a dick. I could say the same about the telegraph and be much more accurate. Leave it out.
It's not an envy tax. That is privileged twit commentary. Envy of what? Ask yourself.
Now in the real world anyone taking their children out of private education now are not doing so because of labour policies. Maybe out of a fear of them but not because of them. No policy has happened yet. Many failing schools are being picked up as causes of labour policies by the right wing press with no evidence because idiots will believe the bullst.
There won't be a flood, I'm sure of that. There might be a very vocal few.
Why do parents sacrifice many of their earnings rather than supporting the state school system? Because they want advantage. When the advantage becomes more difficult to achieve (guess what you were always dependent on the opinion of others to get it) tough st. I don't enjoy the reality dawning but I think it was about time. I also think it won't be as bad as the seers are predicting but they've vested interests in saying it's doom.
More guff and trolling. Keyboard warriors of your ilk are tedious I give you that and no I dont read the telegraph, although the assumption makes you look like a dick. No considered response to my post on the evidence provided by the article (not that your opinion is required again, its been repeated ad nauseam on here for months), just your own prejudice as always. What happened to your previous position that this policy would get private school parents to somehow make their local comp better by forcing them into ‘the system’, that has gone a bit quiet eh, because that was hilarious, keep doubling down with your buzzwords, your chip is clear to see, its only you that seems to be oblivious, using this thread to repeatedly try and make yourself feel better about whatever your own small mindedness has got you so worked up about. You let the mask slip before when you posted a rant about your bosses being from privilege, be careful comrade. I look forward to the usual deflective reply which will get ignored because it adds no value to the topic just more grrr wealthy/privilege/elites etc etc. Maybe go play with the other trolls and leave the grownups to discuss matters.It's not an envy tax. That is privileged twit commentary. Envy of what? Ask yourself.
Now in the real world anyone taking their children out of private education now are not doing so because of labour policies. Maybe out of a fear of them but not because of them. No policy has happened yet. Many failing schools are being picked up as causes of labour policies by the right wing press with no evidence because idiots will believe the bulls
t.There won't be a flood, I'm sure of that. There might be a very vocal few.
Why do parents sacrifice many of their earnings rather than supporting the state school system? Because they want advantage. When the advantage becomes more difficult to achieve (guess what you were always dependent on the opinion of others to get it) tough s
t. I don't enjoy the reality dawning but I think it was about time. I also think it won't be as bad as the seers are predicting but they've vested interests in saying it's doom.NDA said:
I've heard the same in my area - some excellent schools are going to struggle to stay open.
State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
How? I think you're lying.State schools already have long waiting lists, so it is unclear where pupils will be forced to go.
But as long as Dwayne and Chardonay get their free breakfasts paid for by the toffs, that's the main thing.
It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money - more than it might raise.
How are they going to struggle to stay open. No funding has been cut.
"It's ultimately going to cost taxpayers an awful lot of money"
What would they be paying for if it wasn't cut?
Dwayne and chardonnay are not asking for your privilege and will do fine without it.
I think I can have fun with the railing. I may understand it but I think you have more fun with unearned privilege.
It's not going to cost taxpayers a lot of money. It's arguably a class issue. It's not an expensive one. Never will be.
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