Private schools, times a changing?
Discussion
ooid said:
The children moving across will suffer, academically and socially.
Not necessarily. Those parents will still be able to afford a raft of private 1:1 tutoring out of school hours that provides excellent tailored outcomes. Not sure why going to a state school impacts social skills. Plenty of secondary schools have highly active social programs running from volunteering to DoE to debating clubs, etc. They aren't all a grim wasteland!
Our local secondaries are either outstanding or good, and have a very large array of extra curricular programs, attract very good teachers and have very good pupil outcomes...
vaud said:
Not necessarily. Those parents will still be able to afford a raft of private 1:1 tutoring out of school hours that provides excellent tailored outcomes.
Not sure why going to a state school impacts social skills. Plenty of secondary schools have highly active social programs running from volunteering to DoE to debating clubs, etc. They aren't all a grim wasteland!
Our local secondaries are either outstanding or good, and have a very large array of extra curricular programs, attract very good teachers and have very good pupil outcomes...
Would imagine that's not the case in much of the country. Not sure why going to a state school impacts social skills. Plenty of secondary schools have highly active social programs running from volunteering to DoE to debating clubs, etc. They aren't all a grim wasteland!
Our local secondaries are either outstanding or good, and have a very large array of extra curricular programs, attract very good teachers and have very good pupil outcomes...
okgo said:
vaud said:
Not necessarily. Those parents will still be able to afford a raft of private 1:1 tutoring out of school hours that provides excellent tailored outcomes.
Not sure why going to a state school impacts social skills. Plenty of secondary schools have highly active social programs running from volunteering to DoE to debating clubs, etc. They aren't all a grim wasteland!
Our local secondaries are either outstanding or good, and have a very large array of extra curricular programs, attract very good teachers and have very good pupil outcomes...
Would imagine that's not the case in much of the country. Not sure why going to a state school impacts social skills. Plenty of secondary schools have highly active social programs running from volunteering to DoE to debating clubs, etc. They aren't all a grim wasteland!
Our local secondaries are either outstanding or good, and have a very large array of extra curricular programs, attract very good teachers and have very good pupil outcomes...
jshell said:
Total pipe-dream for much of the country! Dunno where Vaud lives, but he should share the postcode.
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems. My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
okgo said:
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems. My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
jshell said:
okgo said:
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems. My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
Louis Balfour said:
jshell said:
okgo said:
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems. My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
vaud said:
Our local secondaries are either outstanding or good, and have a very large array of extra curricular programs, attract very good teachers and have very good pupil outcomes...
Only 18% of the schools in England have achieved outstanding in 2022. So congratulations living in one of those areas though, pretty soon most locals might be priced out of such areas.The heatmaps below is easy enough to highlight level of educational quality drop in the near future, as it also highlights both grammar and independent schools in a given area.
https://www.locrating.com/heatmaps.aspx
Run a scenario of average redistribution of 20% of students from private to nearby state schools, and calculate the outcomes for the next 5 years, including lack of funding, teaching and facilities.
No, wait, the original policy inventors has not run such scenario based models yet?
Edited by ooid on Friday 14th June 17:57
ooid said:
Only 18% of the schools in England have achieved outstanding in 2022. So congratulations living in one of those areas though, pretty soon most locals might be priced out of such areas.
The heatmaps below is easy enough to highlight level of educational quality drop in the near future, as it also highlights both grammar and independent schools in a given area.
https://www.locrating.com/heatmaps.aspx
Run a scenario of average redistribution of 20% of students from private to nearby state schools, and calculate the outcomes for the next 5 years, including lack of funding, teaching and facilities.
No, wait, the original policy inventors has not run such scenario based models yet?
Telegraph ran an article today on the dearth of decent state schools in areas where there was high private schooling. The heatmaps below is easy enough to highlight level of educational quality drop in the near future, as it also highlights both grammar and independent schools in a given area.
https://www.locrating.com/heatmaps.aspx
Run a scenario of average redistribution of 20% of students from private to nearby state schools, and calculate the outcomes for the next 5 years, including lack of funding, teaching and facilities.
No, wait, the original policy inventors has not run such scenario based models yet?
Edited by ooid on Friday 14th June 17:57
The stats were eye opening. Many London boroughs with over 20% in private and over 50% in Kensington and Chelsea.
okgo said:
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
They're not going to accept whatever the local 'needs improvement' type situation that is near their house. It will not be some straight swap, if it were me I'd just move house to where there was a grammar or renowned state school. Many will do similar, and it will put pressure on those already sought after schools and because these people can probably pay to play and buy property in catchment it will cause an even tighter funnel of problems. My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
S600BSB said:
Cheaper to just pay the VAT than move house. It’s what most of us will do.
Indeed but the 'moving home' element is what comes down the line when people with young children come to making the key decision as to how to educate their children. Those are the people who will be incentivised more now to bid up properties in key catchment areas, more so than has already been occurring for the last decade or more. Especially with WFH and t
t capabilities making it even easier to favour locating the home to benefit the children's schooling over the office commute. Especially when blokes realise that renting a flat in the centre of town that gets used just mid week with a couple of old uni mates is a hell of a lot more fun than spending hours commuting and costs barely two terms of fees in London. 
lardybiker said:
THIS
Fell for those with hard finance decisions to make however, also feel i have to point out.....
Could sell a playing field.
Work harder to afford.
Stop getting starbucks.
Miss out on one of your holidays.
etc.
All so that Wayne and Waynetta can have free breakfasts? Seems fair.Fell for those with hard finance decisions to make however, also feel i have to point out.....
Could sell a playing field.
Work harder to afford.
Stop getting starbucks.
Miss out on one of your holidays.
etc.
S600BSB said:
Cheaper to just pay the VAT than move house. It’s what most of us will do.
Indeed but the 'moving home' element is what comes down the line when people with young children come to making the key decision as to how to educate their children. Those are the people who will be incentivised more now to bid up properties in key catchment areas, more so than has already been occurring for the last decade or more. Especially with WFH and t
t capabilities making it even easier to favour locating the home to benefit the children's schooling over the office commute. Especially when blokes realise that renting a flat in the centre of town that gets used just mid week with a couple of old uni mates is a hell of a lot more fun than spending hours commuting and costs barely two terms of fees in London. CoolHands said:
Oh no, rich people fighting over expensive 3 bed semis in highly desirable catchment areas! However will the proletariat survive!
The point is though that A) These won’t be rich people affected it will mainly be people willing to sacrifice things for their children’s education and
B) the consequences of this change will likely not be the extra revenue for the government suggested and there will likely be negative consequences eg schools closing and more pressure on the state sector plus disruption to children’s education.
All because this is a policy based on ideology (and an anti aspirational negative ideology ) rather than economics.
God knows why labour are still perusing this, it’s not a popular policy amongst floating voters. Labour are miles ahead in the polls, why not be a party of aspiration and positive change not the party that will take away things and stifle choices and aspiration.
I’d likely vote labour in this GE but this policy alone puts me off. It just feels unfair and driven by spite and old school negative class war thinking, rather than a genuine attempt to improve education or the economic situation.
u-boat said:
God knows why labour are still perusing this, it’s not a popular policy amongst floating voters. Labour are miles ahead in the polls, why not be a party of aspiration and positive change not the party that will take away things and stifle choices and aspiration.
I’d likely vote labour in this GE but this policy alone puts me off. It just feels unfair and driven by spite and old school negative class war thinking, rather than a genuine attempt to improve education or the economic situation.
They think it's a good thing, bit of levelling up. It's effectively a freebie, keeps the core supporters happy with a bit of redistribution. I’d likely vote labour in this GE but this policy alone puts me off. It just feels unfair and driven by spite and old school negative class war thinking, rather than a genuine attempt to improve education or the economic situation.
It's not going to affect Labour's vote in any way, 95% of voters won't have heard of this policy or care as it'll only affect areas. It's a provisional issue to them that has very little downside.
CoolHands said:
Oh no, rich people fighting over expensive 3 bed semis in highly desirable catchment areas! However will the proletariat survive!
The key is that these won't be 'rich' people but just normal, middle England but with sufficient household income to ensure their children are in a good catchment area, which very obviously is exactly how the world works. I'd wager that when you bought your family home you didn't opt for a small ex council house in the most drug and violent infested street but instead made use of being one of the richest people in the U.K. and your considerable purchasing power to ensure you bought a home that best fit what you wanted and your expectations. Always be careful when mocking those you consider to be 'rich' because the remaining 90% of society that is behind you considers you to also be 'rich' and among those to be put on trains and sent to special places.
You may have a legacy of sports bike ownership over the decade so may even believe that like many sports bike owners that you are a small, rat like bloke with a big fat wife, a predilection to falling victim to conspiracy theories due to a poor education and that you are the salt of the earth and one of the common people. But the reality is that you are a homeowning, fancy car driving, pension owning, educated traitor. You are one of them, one of the oppressors, the elite who hold their jackboot on the real workers of the land.
If you own things and don't exist on a sink estate then you are one of the rich. It's really that simple. And you will be taxed.
vaud said:
Yorkshire. I'm not sharing my postcode but I pay council tax to Bradford, which will probably break some other PH myths.
My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
Bradford Grammar?My underlying point is that parents that can broadly afford private today will be in a very comfortable position to pay for high end top up tutoring if they are forced into state system.
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