Poll: Are you rich?
Total Members Polled: 544
Discussion
Ken_Code said:
akirk said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
Partner and I both earn more than double the national average. However, I live in Greater London, so if you compared our house to some of the houses around here you would think we were poor.
Have to say, I don't feel very wealthy, drive a £4K car, Spend about £3000 on holidays a year each, 2 bedroom house etc.
When I see someone in their 40s in a £2.5 million house with several brand new cars on the drive I wonder where it all went wrong.
On paper most of the country would assume we have an amazing lifestyle but I don't see it.
Have to say, I don't feel very wealthy, drive a £4K car, Spend about £3000 on holidays a year each, 2 bedroom house etc.
When I see someone in their 40s in a £2.5 million house with several brand new cars on the drive I wonder where it all went wrong.
On paper most of the country would assume we have an amazing lifestyle but I don't see it.
S100HP said:
According to the poll, yes. In reality, I don't have two pennies to rub together. My house is worth about 300k, mortgage remaining around 70k, but that's all I have. No savings, nothing. I just about to opt out of my NHS pension as I'm only just taking home enough to cover my bills. Another couple of hundred in my pocket will make a huge difference. It's bloody depressing at 41 years old. Can't afford holidays etc. We're just surviving.
The Gauge said:
Patio - The concrete patio slabs that were there when we moved into our house in 2007 were broken, wonky and rocking so we had a new patio laid.
It is an interesting thread, in particular to read perceptions from what is undoubtedly a skewed audience anyway...examples above show someone able to own a house / have a holiday / own a car, but not feeling rich - yet for millions they don't have the funds to do any of those things... Someone else 'just surviving' yet has c. £250,000 in equity in a house and takes home enough to cover their bills - v. the large number of people whose take home pay is less than their bills / who are dependent on the council for housing and foodbanks for food... there are c. 3,000,000 children in the UK who can't guarantee to actually be offered breakfast before going to school - I suspect that no-one on this thread is actually in poverty...
The comment about the patio slabs intrigued me - not the ongoing silly arguments about spend of money - but because it is symbolic of something very noticeable in our country v. other countries around the world... In the UK - when something like that is not 90% - 100% perfect it is replaced as though the bare minimum standard is of a new item - in other countries, if the functionality is there, no replacement takes place - is a house water-tight / is it basically warm and provides shelter - then it is fine un-rendered / without being fully finished as we would expect in the UK - here we fuss about heat values and eco-housing, we replace carpets because there is a small warn patch, we have a strong philosophy replacing with new (and often poor quality) rather than fixing what is broken - we look to buy new cars on financial discions that don't make sense, rather than run an older car and fix it. We have a very high level of minimum standards and we spend spend spend to keep houses / cars / items we own above that - rather than a more functional approach which would be more normal elsewhere...
There are some huge flaws in our approach as a nation to wealth / assets / expectations / etc.
Ken_Code said:
Over 90% of the Times Rich list can (by a reasonable definition of the term) be described as self-made.
I think that out of the hundreds of people who I know personally who’d likely be described as rich only three or four got that way through inheritance.
The rest are normal people who via a mixture of luck, judgement and well-planned effort earned it.
You do know that these rich lists are totally flawed - a huge part of the wealth in our country sits with people where it is difficult to detect it so they don't appear on such lists - it is very easy to pull up companies house records for a business and say xxx owns 55% so is worth ££££ - it is very tricky to value land / a leaky castle / assets held elsewhere in the world / etc. I know a lot of people who are not on the list but if they liquidated their assets would comfortably knock many off the list - including some who would appear towards the very top, but they are terribly secretive about their wealth.I think that out of the hundreds of people who I know personally who’d likely be described as rich only three or four got that way through inheritance.
The rest are normal people who via a mixture of luck, judgement and well-planned effort earned it.
The very wealthy often have no assets or wealth at all - they simply have the use and control of assets and wealth - far more tax efficient!
I suspect that a large percentage of rich people had lots of help getting there, in one form or another.
Ken_Code said:
akirk said:
Ken_Code said:
Over 90% of the Times Rich list can (by a reasonable definition of the term) be described as self-made.
I think that out of the hundreds of people who I know personally who’d likely be described as rich only three or four got that way through inheritance.
The rest are normal people who via a mixture of luck, judgement and well-planned effort earned it.
You do know that these rich lists are totally flawed - a huge part of the wealth in our country sits with people where it is difficult to detect it so they don't appear on such lists - it is very easy to pull up companies house records for a business and say xxx owns 55% so is worth ££££ - it is very tricky to value land / a leaky castle / assets held elsewhere in the world / etc. I know a lot of people who are not on the list but if they liquidated their assets would comfortably knock many off the list - including some who would appear towards the very top, but they are terribly secretive about their wealth.I think that out of the hundreds of people who I know personally who’d likely be described as rich only three or four got that way through inheritance.
The rest are normal people who via a mixture of luck, judgement and well-planned effort earned it.
The very wealthy often have no assets or wealth at all - they simply have the use and control of assets and wealth - far more tax efficient!
it is much harder to understand that someone they have never heard of might have a house with priceless paintings (I know of one person who has a fabulous collection of scottish modernists in his basement), or might have money tied up in a trust they control but don't own
I know a number of people in that position - not on the list and who work hard to make sure they never appear on such a list, but equally who know their comparative wealth... I am hardly going to break their confidence by sharing their details in public!
There is also an argument that the the list itself becomes less relevant as population grows and wealth levels spread further apart - you start to only list people who contain wealth in businesses or trusts as there is no other tax efficient way of doing it... and bear in mind that many of those listed are xxx and family - the individuals do not own that high a % of the wealth pot - it is often spread across a family / wider group of people, so in reality while there may be a figurehead, no one person owns anywhere near that amount - and returning back to my first point, in families where the wealth is owned by one person, many of them are very private about it.
Zolvaro said:
I agree that guy would like a handout, ken_code and shnozz weren't having a pop at him though, it was the_gauge they had in their sights, he has very nicely put them back in their box though 
Ha ha, thanks 
And thanks for being able to correctly understand what I was trying to say, seems others didn't for some reasonFor clarity I'm not actually looking for a handout at all, my mums money is hers to do with as she likes. I only mentioned it as my family are generally all fairly switched on with money and as my grandparents didn't want any of their estate to go to the tax man my mum and dad helped them move their money around so avoid paying any inheritance tax. Now there's only my mother left and she doesn't have the same thought process that she once did, which is why I don't anticipate receiving anything at all as care home fees could swallow the lot. But yes it would be nice had she done the same for my brother, sister and I who all have kids and mortgages etc and life can sometimes be a struggle.
I don't think there's anything wrong in 'thinking' it would be nice to be helped out financially, it's just thoughts, which are just electrical/chemical reactions in the brain
Edited by The Gauge on Friday 7th June 12:48
jdw100 said:
Did you buy the house in a bad state and thought you’d be in a position to fix it up?
I’d have had a go at learning to plaster. I’ve friend’s that have done exactly that when doing up houses to sell. Taken them ages but since they had the time…. Lot of sanding down required.
Also must have been some sale on for carpets - or are we talking a huge place? Did you buy a dilapidated castle in Scotland and now living like landed gentry? Open it to the public?
Joking aside, taking your son to competition in USA seems like a lovely thing to do.
No, the house initially appeared to be fairly reasonable when we bought it back in 2007, but then we found faults that the previous owner had disguised and covered up, as they do! We needed to do some rewiring in the living room but as the wallpaper was holding the plaster on I decided to hack it all off myself, do some DIY works, get an electrician in and then get it re-plastered. Flooring elsewhere got damaged and had to come up but we'd budgeted for all of this, but then we suddenly found ourselves in a position where that money needed to be spent elsewhere (I wont go into detail as that's private, it wasn't quite DIY SOS situation and Alan Titchmarsh didn't need to come round I’d have had a go at learning to plaster. I’ve friend’s that have done exactly that when doing up houses to sell. Taken them ages but since they had the time…. Lot of sanding down required.
Also must have been some sale on for carpets - or are we talking a huge place? Did you buy a dilapidated castle in Scotland and now living like landed gentry? Open it to the public?
Joking aside, taking your son to competition in USA seems like a lovely thing to do.
) so we were left with the house in an unfinished state for quite a while.After a few years my wife took redundancy and got a payout, but she got another job so we finally had the money to continue the works and It made sense to get the house back to a liveable condition, the situation had been getting us all very down, who wants to live with bare brick walls etc?
The only thing that could be seen as being a treat was the patio, but even after that we still had nearly £10 held back to keep in savings. Then the USA thing came up and we had a difficult decision to make, do we give our son the amazing sporting opportunity, or say no and regret it all our lives. So some of that £10k had to pay for our trip but he's now got regional, national and world titles and set new records in all of them.
£30k doesn't go as far as you think. About £15k went on a car which is needed for work use, and doing high mileage each week, and £15k on house DIY. We think the money was well spent, but others seem to disagree, that's fair enough I suppose.
Edited by The Gauge on Friday 7th June 13:15
Ken_Code said:
Skeptisk said:
What was the definition of “self-made”?
I suspect that a large percentage of rich people had lots of help getting there, in one form or another.
Everyone in the UK has had help. Self-made meant that the money wasn’t gifted or inherited.I suspect that a large percentage of rich people had lots of help getting there, in one form or another.
There's no point being the richest man in the graveyard. My dad died at 61 about 6 months before he planned on retiring and never had a chance to spend his pension pot or savings.
I have no savings other than my pension (about 100k with 30 years to go) and spend everything I make either on costs of living or on fun including one or two holidays per year. All my bills are covered and I'm not getting into debt to do so. There's the odd large expense on a credit card but it's easily factored in and paid off.
If I was to lose my job, I've been there long enough and could cut the fun to the point that any redundancy payment will keep me going for enough time to find another job. If anything was to happen to me while employed, I have enough benefits through critical illness cover and death in benefit that my family or I would again be perfectly fine.
Life is for living and I'd rather have fun now instead of looking at increasing numbers on a bank statement.
I have no savings other than my pension (about 100k with 30 years to go) and spend everything I make either on costs of living or on fun including one or two holidays per year. All my bills are covered and I'm not getting into debt to do so. There's the odd large expense on a credit card but it's easily factored in and paid off.
If I was to lose my job, I've been there long enough and could cut the fun to the point that any redundancy payment will keep me going for enough time to find another job. If anything was to happen to me while employed, I have enough benefits through critical illness cover and death in benefit that my family or I would again be perfectly fine.
Life is for living and I'd rather have fun now instead of looking at increasing numbers on a bank statement.
akirk said:
I know a number of people in that position - not on the list and who work hard to make sure they never appear on such a list, but equally who know their comparative wealth... I am hardly going to break their confidence by sharing their details in public!
I agree, I wouldn't fancy being kneecapped either.John87 said:
There's no point being the richest man in the graveyard. My dad died at 61 about 6 months before he planned on retiring and never had a chance to spend his pension pot or savings.
I have no savings other than my pension (about 100k with 30 years to go) and spend everything I make either on costs of living or on fun including one or two holidays per year. All my bills are covered and I'm not getting into debt to do so. There's the odd large expense on a credit card but it's easily factored in and paid off.
If I was to lose my job, I've been there long enough and could cut the fun to the point that any redundancy payment will keep me going for enough time to find another job. If anything was to happen to me while employed, I have enough benefits through critical illness cover and death in benefit that my family or I would again be perfectly fine.
Life is for living and I'd rather have fun now instead of looking at increasing numbers on a bank statement.
I agree - but for most people there is a balance between "spend it now, live for the moment" and "save every penny". As this thread shows, where that balance is - and how people prioritise different things - is very subjective and massively different for people.I have no savings other than my pension (about 100k with 30 years to go) and spend everything I make either on costs of living or on fun including one or two holidays per year. All my bills are covered and I'm not getting into debt to do so. There's the odd large expense on a credit card but it's easily factored in and paid off.
If I was to lose my job, I've been there long enough and could cut the fun to the point that any redundancy payment will keep me going for enough time to find another job. If anything was to happen to me while employed, I have enough benefits through critical illness cover and death in benefit that my family or I would again be perfectly fine.
Life is for living and I'd rather have fun now instead of looking at increasing numbers on a bank statement.
I am fairly sensible with money and like some other posters - could not imagine having no savings to fall back on. But, I am also fully aware that life is short and could end tomorrow - both of my parents died pretty young (my father was 19!). So there are certainly things that I spend money on - not least "toy" cars - with that in mind.
John87 said:
There's no point being the richest man in the graveyard. My dad died at 61 about 6 months before he planned on retiring and never had a chance to spend his pension pot or savings.
I have no savings other than my pension (about 100k with 30 years to go) and spend everything I make either on costs of living or on fun including one or two holidays per year. All my bills are covered and I'm not getting into debt to do so. There's the odd large expense on a credit card but it's easily factored in and paid off.
If I was to lose my job, I've been there long enough and could cut the fun to the point that any redundancy payment will keep me going for enough time to find another job. If anything was to happen to me while employed, I have enough benefits through critical illness cover and death in benefit that my family or I would again be perfectly fine.
Life is for living and I'd rather have fun now instead of looking at increasing numbers on a bank statement.
This is what I often say to people on here who bang on about having to smash tonnes into a pension or you won’t be able to live when you retire. It has to be a balance between now and future as now is assured but the future is not. I have no savings other than my pension (about 100k with 30 years to go) and spend everything I make either on costs of living or on fun including one or two holidays per year. All my bills are covered and I'm not getting into debt to do so. There's the odd large expense on a credit card but it's easily factored in and paid off.
If I was to lose my job, I've been there long enough and could cut the fun to the point that any redundancy payment will keep me going for enough time to find another job. If anything was to happen to me while employed, I have enough benefits through critical illness cover and death in benefit that my family or I would again be perfectly fine.
Life is for living and I'd rather have fun now instead of looking at increasing numbers on a bank statement.
Friend of my dads had a million pound pension pot and died of a heart attack three weeks before retirement. They had lived very frugally for years with the idea being they would “enjoy” their retirement
Even a 1 minute skim if average life expectancy stats will tell you which is the more sensible thing to plan for. Death at 60 or 85… many more will make the latter, especially if they’re 35 today as I assume he is.
I haven’t even given a seconds thought to those relatives of mine that died early. They are them. I am me. In a living sense. Exceptions apply with things that get passed down but you PROBABLY won’t die at 60, which is a young age to go for anyone. Let alone someone who’s in their 30’s today.
I haven’t even given a seconds thought to those relatives of mine that died early. They are them. I am me. In a living sense. Exceptions apply with things that get passed down but you PROBABLY won’t die at 60, which is a young age to go for anyone. Let alone someone who’s in their 30’s today.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
My partners father is 75, owns two fully paid for properties and has (at a complete guess) around £1 million in shares and pension.
He drives around in a 12 year old battered Honda and has no interest in buying a new car. He doesn't really go on holiday, doesn't buy anything expensive, but if he needs to spend money on something (recently his fridge freezer and dishwasher dies in the same week) he will buy it. He lives well on a day to day basis, but doesn't spend anything other than money on living.
We have (half) jokingly suggested he give my partner some of her inheritance early as he doesn't really need it and it would make a massive difference to our lives right now. On the one hand I can understand that it is his money and why should he, but on the other hand he must realise that my partner is going to get it eventually and it means much more right now than in 10/15/20 years time.
We live in a crazy world where the elderly are hording money they don't need and the young are signing themselves up to massive mortgages and debt because they have no other option.
Only (half) jokingly???He drives around in a 12 year old battered Honda and has no interest in buying a new car. He doesn't really go on holiday, doesn't buy anything expensive, but if he needs to spend money on something (recently his fridge freezer and dishwasher dies in the same week) he will buy it. He lives well on a day to day basis, but doesn't spend anything other than money on living.
We have (half) jokingly suggested he give my partner some of her inheritance early as he doesn't really need it and it would make a massive difference to our lives right now. On the one hand I can understand that it is his money and why should he, but on the other hand he must realise that my partner is going to get it eventually and it means much more right now than in 10/15/20 years time.
We live in a crazy world where the elderly are hording money they don't need and the young are signing themselves up to massive mortgages and debt because they have no other option.
Why don’t you just murder the old b****r then you can have his money now?
Posts like that really boil my p**s. It’s HIS money to do with as he wishes.
okgo said:
Even a 1 minute skim if average life expectancy stats will tell you which is the more sensible thing to plan for. Death at 60 or 85… many more will make the latter, especially if they’re 35 today as I assume he is.
I haven’t even given a seconds thought to those relatives of mine that died early. They are them. I am me. In a living sense. Exceptions apply with things that get passed down but you PROBABLY won’t die at 60, which is a young age to go for anyone. Let alone someone who’s in their 30’s today.
But on the other hand you don’t know what life will be like in 30, 40 or 50 years and whether. Society could go to pot and it might not be worth living. Or inflation could ruin tour plans. An Argentinian friend was telling me about his father. Retired 10 years ago with a super pension…but what he gets every week is now worth about 20% of what it was in real money. He has gone from well off to scrapping by.I haven’t even given a seconds thought to those relatives of mine that died early. They are them. I am me. In a living sense. Exceptions apply with things that get passed down but you PROBABLY won’t die at 60, which is a young age to go for anyone. Let alone someone who’s in their 30’s today.
bad company said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
My partners father is 75, owns two fully paid for properties and has (at a complete guess) around £1 million in shares and pension.
He drives around in a 12 year old battered Honda and has no interest in buying a new car. He doesn't really go on holiday, doesn't buy anything expensive, but if he needs to spend money on something (recently his fridge freezer and dishwasher dies in the same week) he will buy it. He lives well on a day to day basis, but doesn't spend anything other than money on living.
We have (half) jokingly suggested he give my partner some of her inheritance early as he doesn't really need it and it would make a massive difference to our lives right now. On the one hand I can understand that it is his money and why should he, but on the other hand he must realise that my partner is going to get it eventually and it means much more right now than in 10/15/20 years time.
We live in a crazy world where the elderly are hording money they don't need and the young are signing themselves up to massive mortgages and debt because they have no other option.
Only (half) jokingly???He drives around in a 12 year old battered Honda and has no interest in buying a new car. He doesn't really go on holiday, doesn't buy anything expensive, but if he needs to spend money on something (recently his fridge freezer and dishwasher dies in the same week) he will buy it. He lives well on a day to day basis, but doesn't spend anything other than money on living.
We have (half) jokingly suggested he give my partner some of her inheritance early as he doesn't really need it and it would make a massive difference to our lives right now. On the one hand I can understand that it is his money and why should he, but on the other hand he must realise that my partner is going to get it eventually and it means much more right now than in 10/15/20 years time.
We live in a crazy world where the elderly are hording money they don't need and the young are signing themselves up to massive mortgages and debt because they have no other option.
Why don’t you just murder the old b****r then you can have his money now?
Posts like that really boil my p**s. It’s HIS money to do with as he wishes.
Skeptisk said:
But on the other hand you don’t know what life will be like in 30, 40 or 50 years and whether. Society could go to pot and it might not be worth living. Or inflation could ruin tour plans. An Argentinian friend was telling me about his father. Retired 10 years ago with a super pension…but what he gets every week is now worth about 20% of what it was in real money. He has gone from well off to scrapping by.
All of that is vanishingly unlikely to happen in one of the world’s largest economies. Argentina entire exonomy is probably about the same as Surrey. The Gauge said:
bad company said:
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
My partners father is 75, owns two fully paid for properties and has (at a complete guess) around £1 million in shares and pension.
He drives around in a 12 year old battered Honda and has no interest in buying a new car. He doesn't really go on holiday, doesn't buy anything expensive, but if he needs to spend money on something (recently his fridge freezer and dishwasher dies in the same week) he will buy it. He lives well on a day to day basis, but doesn't spend anything other than money on living.
We have (half) jokingly suggested he give my partner some of her inheritance early as he doesn't really need it and it would make a massive difference to our lives right now. On the one hand I can understand that it is his money and why should he, but on the other hand he must realise that my partner is going to get it eventually and it means much more right now than in 10/15/20 years time.
We live in a crazy world where the elderly are hording money they don't need and the young are signing themselves up to massive mortgages and debt because they have no other option.
Only (half) jokingly???He drives around in a 12 year old battered Honda and has no interest in buying a new car. He doesn't really go on holiday, doesn't buy anything expensive, but if he needs to spend money on something (recently his fridge freezer and dishwasher dies in the same week) he will buy it. He lives well on a day to day basis, but doesn't spend anything other than money on living.
We have (half) jokingly suggested he give my partner some of her inheritance early as he doesn't really need it and it would make a massive difference to our lives right now. On the one hand I can understand that it is his money and why should he, but on the other hand he must realise that my partner is going to get it eventually and it means much more right now than in 10/15/20 years time.
We live in a crazy world where the elderly are hording money they don't need and the young are signing themselves up to massive mortgages and debt because they have no other option.
Why don’t you just murder the old b****r then you can have his money now?
Posts like that really boil my p**s. It’s HIS money to do with as he wishes.
Edited by bad company on Friday 7th June 16:19
okgo said:
Even a 1 minute skim if average life expectancy stats will tell you which is the more sensible thing to plan for. Death at 60 or 85… many more will make the latter, especially if they’re 35 today as I assume he is.
I haven’t even given a seconds thought to those relatives of mine that died early. They are them. I am me. In a living sense. Exceptions apply with things that get passed down but you PROBABLY won’t die at 60, which is a young age to go for anyone. Let alone someone who’s in their 30’s today.
Death not so relevant as health IMO. I have relatives who lost their health at 70 and may as well be broke for all the quality of life their riches bring them.I haven’t even given a seconds thought to those relatives of mine that died early. They are them. I am me. In a living sense. Exceptions apply with things that get passed down but you PROBABLY won’t die at 60, which is a young age to go for anyone. Let alone someone who’s in their 30’s today.
Average 'health' span is 65, and that's the age I'm planning for.
lizardbrain said:
Death not so relevant as health IMO. I have relatives who lost their health at 70 and may as well be broke for all the quality of life their riches bring them.
Average 'health' span is 65, and that's the age I'm planning for.
I think you’re in for a shock. Average 'health' span is 65, and that's the age I'm planning for.
65 is really nothing these days. All of our relatives are older and all are still holidaying, working in some cases, mobile, etc etc. 75 would be more reasonable. Then again I am from the south where we live longer apparently.
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