Discussion
Some rose tinted glasses going in here! the 90s were rough as a badgers and the only reason things may have seemed up was because we were at such a low level! Ancient Greece wasn’t a democracy as we know it, it was a hinterland outpost of barbarians compared to Persia, Rome f
ked it up etc.
ked it up etc. Every generation tends to look on their peak years with rose tinted spectacles remembering the good bits and glossing over the bad. For me it was the 1970's I remember long, hot summers, out with my mates until it was dark, great music and not a care in the world.
What also happened was that my father was on strike a lot, we never had much money and my mum had cancer.
The main difference then was that expectations were lower, you never asked your parents for money because there wasn't any. Telling a generation that "you can have it all" when in reality you can't leads to an unrealistic expectation, a warped view of the realities of life , depression when it doesn't materialize and debt at funding a lifestyle that you can't afford.
What also happened was that my father was on strike a lot, we never had much money and my mum had cancer.
The main difference then was that expectations were lower, you never asked your parents for money because there wasn't any. Telling a generation that "you can have it all" when in reality you can't leads to an unrealistic expectation, a warped view of the realities of life , depression when it doesn't materialize and debt at funding a lifestyle that you can't afford.
missing the VR6 said:
I'd argue we're certainly not healthier and only living longer because of pharmaceutical intervention to make up for the poor diet and sedentary lifestyle the majority live.
Was going to post similar.Thee seems to be more and more overweight people about, fast processed food, sugary drinks, sedentary lifestyles.
On the other hand, smoking seems to be less and alcohol also.
When you see folk waddling up the high street you have to wonder though.
On the question of "why are we here?". It's just evolutionary happenstance. Nothing more, nothing less. We have no higher purpose.
Ultimately all the things we do that aren't furthering our ability to breed and eat are a waste of time. We'll destroy ourselves as a species at some point because we've an over-supply of spare time and mental acuity.
Ultimately all the things we do that aren't furthering our ability to breed and eat are a waste of time. We'll destroy ourselves as a species at some point because we've an over-supply of spare time and mental acuity.
Dagnir said:
I'd say we peaked at least 20 years ago.
Are we now:
Healthier? No
Wealthier? No
More educated? Highly debatable
More free? No
Happier? No
50's in the US seems like it was a good time. Are we now:
Healthier? No
Wealthier? No
More educated? Highly debatable
More free? No
Happier? No
1 blue collar wage was enough for a reasonable lifestyle. Decent house, nice car if you wanted it. Tons of optimism.
Granted you probably had to be white for thar particular outlook.
ChocolateFrog said:
sidewinder500 said:
Some interesting posts have been started the last couple of days/weeks reg broken britain, homelessness, how fragile is your life etc, which makes me wonder if we are in a steep decline from some 'golden years'.
There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
I don't agree with any of that. We've never been fatter, schooling has been dumbed down and pared back to the bone, life expectancy has fallen since Covid and only a few are wealthier, most are poorer.There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
richhead said:
i would argue, that that stage was reached when concorde was built, and after the moon landings, what have we acheived since that ground breaking, apart from the internet, and that is fueling the race to the bottom.
Nobody seems to try harder, just good enough.
Really? What about Hubble or the James Webb telescope, we have populated Mars with robots, landed on an asteroid in outer space then brought back samples of the asteroid, the international space station. Satellite technology, mobile computers where we can communicate with anyone in the world for free. Nobody seems to try harder, just good enough.
You will have any number of different kinds of technologies available to you that would blow the minds of someone in the 1990’s or even the 2000’s.
You have the ability to fly at a reasonable cost anywhere in the world on safe and comfortable jet aircraft. For a couple of thousand pounds you can get to most places on earth.
You can watch live any event in ultra HD from across the world. Watch pretty much any news event or historical moment for free on demand.
Your car will be safe, comfortable, efficient and ultra reliable.
Your home will have heat and hot water available instantly, your lights will come on and will stay on. The light bulbs should last years and consume next to no electricity.
At least in Western Europe and bits of Asia you can love and marry who ever you want without the threat of prison of being attacked by some thug. Think back to the 1970’s.
Plus race is becoming less of an issue. Hopefully religion dies off sooner rather than later.
We have not got anywhere near peak man. The future will be even better, I just wish I could live my life again and experience all that is to come.
Edited by lrdisco on Tuesday 2nd July 21:05
PlywoodPascal said:
ChocolateFrog said:
sidewinder500 said:
Some interesting posts have been started the last couple of days/weeks reg broken britain, homelessness, how fragile is your life etc, which makes me wonder if we are in a steep decline from some 'golden years'.
There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
I don't agree with any of that. We've never been fatter, schooling has been dumbed down and pared back to the bone, life expectancy has fallen since Covid and only a few are wealthier, most are poorer.There's a visible change in almost every area since ten or so years, empty or struggling businesses (or the umpteenth barber/nail/Asian food shop), more beggars, the cost of living takes its toll, a general decline of quality or service in almost everything.
On the other hand, as mankind we've never been healthier, more educated, alive longer, and wealthier than ever before.
It may be ambitious to impossible to determine anything that came before as we can't possibly know, but did we achieve peak mankind already?
For example the palazzo ducale in Venice has the largest unsupported hall in Europe, about 55 m long, and this was in the 15th century.
Notre-Dame was around 200 years earlier, and don't get me started on some pyramids...
Ancient Greece, Egypt or the Roman Empire had a functional society system with relative security, 2000 years ago.
Things sped up a bit in the industrial age, to the point where we are today, we lost a lot of skills on the way, not many proper mechanics/builders/whatever requres a certain amount of capability around anymore.
Overcomplexication in so many areas, but not that many able to fulfill the needs...
It seems we have it all but are not able or willing to get the best out of it for the sake of all, or do we still have some great things in the waiting and still are in a positive progression? Or worse, we achieved peak some 500 years ago?
BTW, it's not supposed to sound like an old man yelling at clouds rant, just my observation.
lrdisco said:
Really? What about Hubble or the James Webb telescope, we have populated Mars with robots, landed on an asteroid in outer space then brought back samples of the asteroid, the international space station. Satellite technology, mobile computers where we can communicate with anyone in the world for free.
You will have any number of different kinds of technologies available to you that would blow the minds of someone in the 1990’s or even the 2000’s.
You have the ability to fly at a reasonable cost anywhere in the world on safe and comfortable jet aircraft. For a couple of thousand pounds you can get to most places on earth.
You can watch live any event in ultra HD from across the world. Watch pretty much any news event or historical moment for free on demand.
Your car will be safe, comfortable, efficient and ultra reliable.
Your home will have heat and hot water available instantly, your lights will come on and will stay on. The light bulbs should last years and consume next to no electricity.
At least in Western Europe and bits of Asia you can love and marry who ever you want without the threat of prison of being attacked by some thug. Think back to the 1970’s.
Plus race is becoming less of an issue. Hopefully religion dies off sooner rather than later.
We have not got anywhere near peak man. The future will be even better, I just wish I could live my life again and experience all that is to come.
yes populated mars with robots, not people.You will have any number of different kinds of technologies available to you that would blow the minds of someone in the 1990’s or even the 2000’s.
You have the ability to fly at a reasonable cost anywhere in the world on safe and comfortable jet aircraft. For a couple of thousand pounds you can get to most places on earth.
You can watch live any event in ultra HD from across the world. Watch pretty much any news event or historical moment for free on demand.
Your car will be safe, comfortable, efficient and ultra reliable.
Your home will have heat and hot water available instantly, your lights will come on and will stay on. The light bulbs should last years and consume next to no electricity.
At least in Western Europe and bits of Asia you can love and marry who ever you want without the threat of prison of being attacked by some thug. Think back to the 1970’s.
Plus race is becoming less of an issue. Hopefully religion dies off sooner rather than later.
We have not got anywhere near peak man. The future will be even better, I just wish I could live my life again and experience all that is to come.
Edited by lrdisco on Tuesday 2nd July 21:05
dont start me on energy costs.
I think a lot of it is related to the increased absolute pursuit of profit above all else.
Generally, everything is cheap and doesn't last, buildings and public spaces are made as cheaply and blandly as possible. Think of the incredible architecture in public spaces from the Victorian era. Even the craftsmanship and flourishes of detail on bang average Victorian terraces put 90% of modern new builds to shame.
Obviously capitalism has been around for ages and has driven fantastic progress but I wonder if it is past it's peak in terms of delivering quality of life for the majority.
Generally, everything is cheap and doesn't last, buildings and public spaces are made as cheaply and blandly as possible. Think of the incredible architecture in public spaces from the Victorian era. Even the craftsmanship and flourishes of detail on bang average Victorian terraces put 90% of modern new builds to shame.
Obviously capitalism has been around for ages and has driven fantastic progress but I wonder if it is past it's peak in terms of delivering quality of life for the majority.
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