Discussion
Ken_Code said:
OK, so given your focus on this what have you actually done about it?
Think you missed the point.This isn’t a game of one-up-man-ship of who can do the most, and measuring the validity of my post against my personal efforts. I was surprised to read a comment that suggested that living on the streets is acceptable if they don’t pee and make a mess. It felt selfish. Apologies If I read too much into that.
We are all one step away from being in the same boat. When you take time to listen it turns out life can change in an instant.
TheJimi said:
Spare tyre said:
Motorman74 said:
A school friend of mine was murdered in a homeless hostel - he'd had a troubled life, even when we were in school - but he didn't deserve that.
My wife's office is opposite the same homeless hostel, a number of homeless people have been hit by cars while totally out of it on spice or whatever.
Where I work, there are a large number of vans and caravans parked in non-residential streets around a park. They are being moved on - they need to go somewhere, it's probably going to be dispersal in the surrounding residential streets. Despite "van life" being this idealised youtube channel thing, none of these people are living in vans by choice. A bit more empathy/compassion is needed.
It's an epidemic of immense proportions, and it's not limited to the UK. The system is completely broken. I don't have any idea how this can be fixed, but just abandoning these people is really not acceptable in 2024.
Horrid thing to say, but stopping rewarding cretins for breeding with free houses and “pay” would be a good startMy wife's office is opposite the same homeless hostel, a number of homeless people have been hit by cars while totally out of it on spice or whatever.
Where I work, there are a large number of vans and caravans parked in non-residential streets around a park. They are being moved on - they need to go somewhere, it's probably going to be dispersal in the surrounding residential streets. Despite "van life" being this idealised youtube channel thing, none of these people are living in vans by choice. A bit more empathy/compassion is needed.
It's an epidemic of immense proportions, and it's not limited to the UK. The system is completely broken. I don't have any idea how this can be fixed, but just abandoning these people is really not acceptable in 2024.
Spare tyre said:
Well, no, but I suspect if you said after xyz there is no free housing just because you’ve popped out a sprog, it’d self control to some respects
But those that ignore it, we'll just leave their children in absolute poverty or the care system? (Cause the latter is cheap and gas great outcomes)The battle against teenage pregnancy has been incredibly successful. Now politicians are stressing about the birth rate...
Edited by Evanivitch on Monday 1st July 12:56
Edited by Evanivitch on Tuesday 2nd July 06:35
Cannot think of anything worse than having nowhere to live, I have seen people fall due to gambling or losing their job and my heart goes out to them.
I take my hat off to organisations such as Pret a manger who donate unsold food to hostels for the homeless, I think that they also donate a percentage of every drink.
I take my hat off to organisations such as Pret a manger who donate unsold food to hostels for the homeless, I think that they also donate a percentage of every drink.
mickythefish said:
ithe common dominator is single man, just seems sad really in a first world country, there is more than enough money in the system.
Spare tyre said:
No idea what his situation is, but if you don’t have parents to fall back on it could be tough if wages are low.
This, you don't know these people's situation. A divorce, losing a job, mental health issues, a lot of people who judge these people are themselves one or two bad breaks away from being made homeless.You could be thinking everything is going OK in your life and before you know it due to a situation beyond your control you have nowhere to live.
I went through a divorce ten years ago and suddenly I am driving away in my shed with two bin bags of clothes in the boot. I am lucky, I had my parents to fall back on, but what if you are not that lucky?
Where do you go, you could stay with friends for a while maybe, but eventually you are going to outstay your welcome.
If you don't have enough money to rent somewhere, what are you supposed to do?
I eventually got back on my feet and managed to buy myself a little house near my parents. I don't live there, I rent it out now but I know it is always there as a backup plan if my life ever goes to s
t.A lot of people are not that lucky and have nothing to fall back on.
ThingsBehindTheSun said:
mickythefish said:
ithe common dominator is single man, just seems sad really in a first world country, there is more than enough money in the system.
Spare tyre said:
No idea what his situation is, but if you don’t have parents to fall back on it could be tough if wages are low.
This, you don't know these people's situation. A divorce, losing a job, mental health issues, a lot of people who judge these people are themselves one or two bad breaks away from being made homeless.You could be thinking everything is going OK in your life and before you know it due to a situation beyond your control you have nowhere to live.
I went through a divorce ten years ago and suddenly I am driving away in my shed with two bin bags of clothes in the boot. I am lucky, I had my parents to fall back on, but what if you are not that lucky?
Where do you go, you could stay with friends for a while maybe, but eventually you are going to outstay your welcome.
If you don't have enough money to rent somewhere, what are you supposed to do?
I eventually got back on my feet and managed to buy myself a little house near my parents. I don't live there, I rent it out now but I know it is always there as a backup plan if my life ever goes to s
t.A lot of people are not that lucky and have nothing to fall back on.
I was unwell with cancer a few years back and had a young family during covid, wife was having to take time from work to look after family
Was scary to see how quickly something can change for you
Now I’m focused on getting my house under my belt and from that point on the biggest worry (for me) is done
I talk to a friend on the school run (i also went to school with him at the same time)
His wife works in A&E, he is a council warden, they are good honest people who work bloody long hours.
They don’t have fancy cars, holidays etc.
Thankfully they do have a mortgage (rather than very high rent), the guy tells me that they can’t really afford to do much as they are always battling the bottom line. His folks treat the grandkids to their holidays.
I feel genuinely sorry for the guy, does everything right, he would mentally be better off not working (long term who knows)
StevieBee said:
Over the years, I've worked for and with various organisations that seek to address this issue.
What I've learnt is that there is absolutely no institutional driven need for anyone in the UK to sleep rough. If you lost absolutely everything right now, there is a bed, a warm meal, shower, etc for you this evening and for as long as you need. Plus, all the support you need to get back on your feet.
The government could spend £1b building new shelters, employing more staff and running more outreach yet there would still be people sleeping on the streets.
The reasons are hugely complex and far from being singular; addiction, mental health, etc... Almost always, the common denominator as being the root cause is family. What should be the ultimate safety net, for many simply does not exist. Sometimes through unfortunate circumstance, sometimes through deliberate abandonment.
This.What I've learnt is that there is absolutely no institutional driven need for anyone in the UK to sleep rough. If you lost absolutely everything right now, there is a bed, a warm meal, shower, etc for you this evening and for as long as you need. Plus, all the support you need to get back on your feet.
The government could spend £1b building new shelters, employing more staff and running more outreach yet there would still be people sleeping on the streets.
The reasons are hugely complex and far from being singular; addiction, mental health, etc... Almost always, the common denominator as being the root cause is family. What should be the ultimate safety net, for many simply does not exist. Sometimes through unfortunate circumstance, sometimes through deliberate abandonment.
Everyone is entitled to the same help. Your local council have to help you, and everyone can get housing benefit.
As a single man you're not going to be given your own property though. That's where things start to get difficult. Many homeless people have issues and don't fit in well with rules, restrictions, and responsibilities.
That why you end up with people who choose to sleep rough rather than take the help they are entitled to.
Ken_Code said:
As long as they aren’t littering or using the streets as a toilet then there’s no great harm done.
What a f@cking tit end.
As someone who actually tries to do something about it I find that the 2 biggest causes are the breakdown of a relationship or debt (more prevalent now than ever). The system that the local authorities use is broken but I have some sympathy with them as there are very few houses as none have been built and those that are empty have hundreds of applicants fighting over them, it's a soul destroying experience for them.
My ex's cousin is 'voluntarily' homeless, her aunt and uncle have a decent sized house (in a seaside area so not huge expensive place), he has a room there with his clothes and things, stays xmas or if theres an event, but other than that moves all round the place doing odd jobs, van life/squats/hostels/sleeping on the streets if needed,
Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
TheK1981 said:
My ex's cousin is 'voluntarily' homeless, her aunt and uncle have a decent sized house (in a seaside area so not huge expensive place), he has a room there with his clothes and things, stays xmas or if theres an event, but other than that moves all round the place doing odd jobs, van life/squats/hostels/sleeping on the streets if needed,
Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
Your ex's cousin chooses to be homeless, doesn't mean others do. Some of them don't have the option of sleeping in a van and have to sleep rough.Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
Super Sonic said:
TheK1981 said:
My ex's cousin is 'voluntarily' homeless, her aunt and uncle have a decent sized house (in a seaside area so not huge expensive place), he has a room there with his clothes and things, stays xmas or if theres an event, but other than that moves all round the place doing odd jobs, van life/squats/hostels/sleeping on the streets if needed,
Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
Your ex's cousin chooses to be homeless, doesn't mean others do. Some of them don't have the option of sleeping in a van and have to sleep rough.Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
Personally I think all right to buy should stop, and councils be given more power so say to developers you have x amount of time to build or it will be sold to the council and we will build, stop land banking
TheK1981 said:
My ex's cousin is 'voluntarily' homeless, her aunt and uncle have a decent sized house (in a seaside area so not huge expensive place), he has a room there with his clothes and things, stays xmas or if theres an event, but other than that moves all round the place doing odd jobs, van life/squats/hostels/sleeping on the streets if needed,
Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
That's one person, so a pretty pointless post really.Hes got no addiction issues or anything, just doesnt want the hassle of life, hes worked in quite a few jobs that he could be earning enough to get somewhere, was a manager at maccys running his own store, was a training manager for tesco,
Officially hes homeless, but for him its a choice, so people shouting that its the tories/rich/someones fault, there isnt a fault, its his choice
Spare tyre said:
Druggies and stuff I do feel sorry for, but they are hard to help, having watched their behaviour you wonder how often they’ve been let down
There is a 52 plate berlingo that I see in various places around the city
I happened to be sat near it one evening and a youngish guy about 25 cycled up and got in, later that evening you see blankets up at the window
No idea what his situation is, but if you don’t have parents to fall back on it could be tough if wages are low.
Is he homeless I guess, I admire him for sticking with it.
I know it’s not the same as it’s different issues with different legalities but the centre of Southampton is a curious place, migrant hotel right in the centre (we won’t talk about them doing Uber eat deliveries on e-bikes) and homeless outside. Strange world
Not saying that chap couldn't be homeless, as in sleeping in his Berlingo is his only option. But there are a lot of young #vanlife people/digital nomads who choose to live in a van/work on the road. Could have been that. If I lost everything but could still pull in a wage of some description I'd probably choose to spend a bit of time living on the road.There is a 52 plate berlingo that I see in various places around the city
I happened to be sat near it one evening and a youngish guy about 25 cycled up and got in, later that evening you see blankets up at the window
No idea what his situation is, but if you don’t have parents to fall back on it could be tough if wages are low.
Is he homeless I guess, I admire him for sticking with it.
I know it’s not the same as it’s different issues with different legalities but the centre of Southampton is a curious place, migrant hotel right in the centre (we won’t talk about them doing Uber eat deliveries on e-bikes) and homeless outside. Strange world
Evanivitch said:
Spare tyre said:
Horrid thing to say, but stopping rewarding cretins for breeding with free houses and “pay” would be a good start
So punish babies and children?Edited by Spare tyre on Monday 1st July 10:06
compulsory sterilisation in order to receive further state handouts. If you can't afford children, you shouldn't have them.
I hate seeing it, but must admit I don’t know the first thing about how the problem could be solved. I’ve helped out at a homeless shelter on a couple of Christmases and it was lovely to help, but haven’t been for a number of years now I have my own children.
Elsewhere can be much worse though - a trip to San Francisco would shock a lot of folk.
Elsewhere can be much worse though - a trip to San Francisco would shock a lot of folk.
David87 said:
I hate seeing it, but must admit I don’t know the first thing about how the problem could be solved. I’ve helped out at a homeless shelter on a couple of Christmases and it was lovely to help, but haven’t been for a number of years now I have my own children.
Elsewhere can be much worse though - a trip to San Francisco would shock a lot of folk.
It can’t be solved, but the bleeding hearts above pretending that people have no agency and are just passive recipients of what life throws at them do more harm than good.Elsewhere can be much worse though - a trip to San Francisco would shock a lot of folk.
This is the bloke I came across living in a garage as couldn't get housing support. Can't remember details of reasons.
Might be nsfw swearing etc.
Xmas 2001 in a garage.
https://youtu.be/BWhGSnUjqFs?si=t5onoXObeNb06hWE
I know there a lot of people sleeping in cars nowadays as well
Might be nsfw swearing etc.
Xmas 2001 in a garage.
https://youtu.be/BWhGSnUjqFs?si=t5onoXObeNb06hWE
I know there a lot of people sleeping in cars nowadays as well
Ken_Code said:
David87 said:
I hate seeing it, but must admit I don’t know the first thing about how the problem could be solved. I’ve helped out at a homeless shelter on a couple of Christmases and it was lovely to help, but haven’t been for a number of years now I have my own children.
Elsewhere can be much worse though - a trip to San Francisco would shock a lot of folk.
It can’t be solved, but the bleeding hearts above pretending that people have no agency and are just passive recipients of what life throws at them do more harm than good.Elsewhere can be much worse though - a trip to San Francisco would shock a lot of folk.
Speaking to a couple of friends who work with homeless charities, their general response is every single homeless person has story, and some of those stories are utterly horrific. It is often a complicated route that takes them to being on the street and for many, it is a long way back. This is especially relevant for women, where sexual and physical abuse accounts for a substantial proportion of those who are homeless (I have seen 1 in 4 stated, - but I will check those stats). Sexual abuse of females is high, I think that 1 in 4 may also be the % of homeless women who have been abused.
For a few it may be a "lifestyle choice" but for the greater part, I suspect it is a culmination of events, with alcohol and rugs often playing a part along the away. Substance abuse is often not the single reason, often circumstances have led to that, and the outcome is being on the street.
A few of my old school friends ended up homeless. One was a scumbag from day one and ended up out of his council flat. The other 2 had awful childhoods, were vulnerable kids and young adults and it was a knocking bet that they would end up slipping through the system, even with me and the lads tried to help them.
If that makes me a bleeding heart, then so be it. I wear that compassion with pride and as an ex plod, I am not exactly naïve.
TheK1981 said:
Personally I think all right to buy should stop, and councils be given more power so say to developers you have x amount of time to build or it will be sold to the council and we will build, stop land banking
How would this solve homelessness? I would imagine that very few rough sleepers are able to be housed in a normal residential setting. I would imagine doing so would result in them rough sleeping again.I think land banking is just a lazy trope from the usual suspects. Working with developers and the council I can’t think of anything more laughable than expecting the council to do a more efficient better job of building houses than private developers.
Also would this not just exacerbate the rental crisis?
A huge amount of capital and resources over the last 30 years has gone into student accommodation, if we are looking at appropriating others things, why not give some of those housing resources to the homeless ?
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