Why are Americans so religious?

[RDMcG]

Living in Canada and have a winter place in Arizona -drive back and forth often and have a very good sense of the US.

One thing I would say about a that there is a vast divide between rural and urban areas. Driving through small town America will reveal huge numbers of depopulatins towns with small budgets and few social services.
There are many churches though and they provide an essential community service.People tend to support each other and the. Church provides the social glue to keep everything together . Of course like many rural and village areas in the world they are much more conservative than the big cities -
You won’t find the same level of bible classes in Manhattan for example.

I am no apologist for fundamentalist religions of any kind but I do get the role of providing what is often the only community service in the area.

[MikeM6]

CHLEMCBC said:

obody's proposing taking them away.

Maybe not with real credibility, but there are plenty that seem to mock them for them gun ownership and the question of gun control is raised periodically, so a perceived threat is ever present.But I think we have strayed somewhat from the original point a tad, in that there is a lot of generalisation of Americans online.

I've just been listening to a podcast where, by coincidence, the question of the difference between Americans and Brits is asked. The answer given was for a Brit to discover America "is like finding out your dad had another child with another woman, but gave them more money and confidence. The mother was much nicer too. Americans are like Brits, but with self belief."

I found it amusing, even if I don't put much stock into it.

[Gordon Hill]

Pitre said:

I watched an excellent film the other day... "The Invention of Lying" by Ricky Gervais.

Stonking debunking of religion ('the man in the sky' ), I can fully understand why it wasn't a huge success in the USA.

Wouldn't call anything that Gervais has ever done as "stonking", tedious maybe, playing the same character over and over again, slightly less annoying than James Corden but there isn't much in it, he's made a lot of money by licking the right amount of @rse but as a "comedian" is about as funny as a burning orphanage.

[standards]

Gordon Hill said:

Wouldn't call anything that Gervais has ever done as "stonking", tedious maybe, playing the same character over and over again, slightly less annoying than James Corden but there isn't much in it, he's made a lot of money by licking the right amount of @rse but as a "comedian" is about as funny as a burning orphanage.

IIRC fellow atheist Frankie Boyle was excoriating about Ricky Gervais as a stand up comedian. And didn't Frankie put New Atheists into Room 101?

It always intrigues me how the US, set up to avoid having a state religion is so faith driven-Dawkins quoted a survey that put a presidential atheist in the not-a-cat-in-hell-chance category of being elected, whereas in the UK with Established churches no one is really bothered about political leaders faith, possibly even it'd be a disadvantage-wasn't a LibeDem candidate zapped for being an evangelical christian?

[hidetheelephants]

Roofless Toothless said:

It has occurred to me that the existence of God was universally accepted during the early Middle Ages. There wasn’t even a box to tick for atheist or agnostic.

There's ample evidence they existed at the time, mostly focussed on the tortures applied to them for apostasy but not exclusively.

Roofless Toothless said:

This made me start comparing the period with the USA today, and I have been very surprised at the surveys quoted in previous posts that reveal there are so many non believing Americans at present. It doesn’t come over like this at all. They must be very good at keeping their heads down.

It was very late in European history that atheism became at all common, or at least admitted to. Nietzsche may have been one of the first prominent figures, and even he, of course, is famous for saying that God is dead, not that he never existed. I can even remember in my own lifetime Bertrand Russell being questioned on TV about his atheism.

Much of the States seems to have got stuck in a time warp that missed recent European cultural history completely, at least those parts away from a few enlightened’ enclaves.

There is no church of the latter day atheists* or evangelical atheists on TV exhorting unbelievers to send them money in return for wealth in this life and the next. Only 32% of americans attend a place of worship regularly and only 45% are members of a congregation. In red states I'm not surprised people keep their unbelief to themselves and in blue states depending on where they live it might help for a quiet life too.

*There is a The Satanic Temple, but it's not very big.

MikeM6 said:

I appreciate where you are coming from, but it is not for me or you to say that their views are legitimate or not. Gun ownership is for many a fundamental part of their culture, and sadly there are consequences to that. It does mean that law enforcement must be more ready to use it too.

While guns and gun ownership have been fetishised to an absurd degree this is not a majority position, polls repeatedly find a majority for greater control of guns.

Edited by hidetheelephants on Tuesday 25th June 19:28

[Slow.Patrol]

RDMcG said:

Living in Canada and have a winter place in Arizona -drive back and forth often and have a very good sense of the US.

One thing I would say about a that there is a vast divide between rural and urban areas. Driving through small town America will reveal huge numbers of depopulatins towns with small budgets and few social services.
There are many churches though and they provide an essential community service.People tend to support each other and the. Church provides the social glue to keep everything together . Of course like many rural and village areas in the world they are much more conservative than the big cities -
You won’t find the same level of bible classes in Manhattan for example.

I am no apologist for fundamentalist religions of any kind but I do get the role of providing what is often the only community service in the area.

I've been to the US a number of times including the less touristy areas in Arizona, Kansas and Colorado. The reply above is spot on. Often there is very little else in the way of community or social gathering facilities. No village halls or a village bar.

What I do like in the US is the tolerance of non believers to the religious. None of the ridicule "sky fairy" stuff. Each to their own. Just because someone doesn't believe, it doesn't give them the right to discredit the believers in an offensive way.

I also like the pride that a lot of citizens have in their country. Many houses display the stars and stripes on a flag pole in their front yards without anyone accusing them of being a right wing racist.

[Slow.Patrol]

RDMcG said:

Living in Canada and have a winter place in Arizona -drive back and forth often and have a very good sense of the US.

.

Phoenix or Sedona?

Out of interest, I believe a lot of people own second homes in Arizona due to the mild winters.

Is there any hate towards second home owners or are they welcomed. We have areas in the UK which are popular with second home owners who are hated by the locals. I didn't pick up any animosity during the short time I was there.

[RDMcG]

Slow.Patrol said:

Phoenix or Sedona?

Out of interest, I believe a lot of people own second homes in Arizona due to the mild winters.

Is there any hate towards second home owners or are they welcomed. We have areas in the UK which are popular with second home owners who are hated by the locals. I didn't pick up any animosity during the short time I was there.

Scottsdale just beyond Phoenix. No problem at all- friendly people, half an hour from pure wilderness, keep a Jeep down there for offroading.

[rodericb]

CHLEMCBC said:

MikeM6 said:

I appreciate where you are coming from, but it is not for me or you to say that their views are legitimate or not. Gun ownership is for many a fundamental part of their culture, and sadly there are consequences to that. It does mean that law enforcement must be more ready to use it too.

Yes they are coming from a defensive position, but so would we if the Greens demand we surrender our cars and force us to use a bus instead. It might be for "the greater good" that we all give up something that we could get by without but love, but I for one would find it extremely tough to do so. I suspect that many would get defensive or even aggressive about it. It doesn't matter whether the car (or the gun) serves a legitimate purpose or not or whether it is essential or not.

It is quite tough to judge accurately from this side of the pond, without experience of this directly. Just like it's hard for a Green party voter living in Brighton to properly understand the implications for someone in rural Lincolnshire of not having their own car.

Judging Americans by a Euro centric thinking is the same as judging football for not being more like rugby. Understand both properly first, then judge.

Nobody's proposing taking them away.

Mmm yeah, they aren't but they are:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61938109

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61591236

[hidetheelephants]

rodericb said:

Mmm yeah, they aren't but they are:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61938109

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61591236

Oh no! Common sense gun control laws with popular support! What a calumny!

[InformationSuperHighway]

MC Bodge said:

InformationSuperHighway said:

I work for a tech company and an employee of mine went to a sales meeting (Middle of the country) where the company they were selling to prayed at the start of the meeting for clarity, purpose and to guide the vision of the meeting in Gods eyes.

They must have had some terrible meetings in the past if they were resorting to that.

Apparently they do it at the start of EVERY meeting and have done since the company was created.


I told my sales rep to tell them to buy the software because Jesus loves a good ROI.

[732NM]

RDMcG said:

Scottsdale just beyond Phoenix. No problem at all- friendly people, half an hour from pure wilderness, keep a Jeep down there for offroading.

[rodericb]

hidetheelephants said:

rodericb said:

Mmm yeah, they aren't but they are:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61938109

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61591236

Oh no! Common sense gun control laws with popular support! What a calumny!

This is where the "they're taking our guns" starts. It's seen as the thin end of the wedge. Here's some more links:

https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/13...
https://www.law.columbia.edu/news/archive/most-ame...

I could dig up lobby groups who campaign for zero guns or whatever but the fact is that the perception that "someone is going to come for my guns" is a thing. There are people working to take peoples guns away and it's quite a hot-button topic in the USA.

[hidetheelephants]

Which is true only in the sense they want to make it hard for criminals and the mentally ill to buy or possess guns. This doesn't seem like a tricky proposition, but then I don't have brain worms.

[theboss]

RDMcG said:

Slow.Patrol said:

Phoenix or Sedona?

Out of interest, I believe a lot of people own second homes in Arizona due to the mild winters.

Is there any hate towards second home owners or are they welcomed. We have areas in the UK which are popular with second home owners who are hated by the locals. I didn't pick up any animosity during the short time I was there.

Scottsdale just beyond Phoenix. No problem at all- friendly people, half an hour from pure wilderness, keep a Jeep down there for offroading.

I was in Scottsdale in April and met a number of people - locals and 'Snowbirds' with second homes. Couldn't have been friendlier. I doubt there is much animosity towards anyone with a second home.

My brother has relocated to the Phoenix valley area recently with his family and reports the same at a neighbourhood level.

Have been over twice this year and love the place. Taking wife and small kids in October when weather should be more manageable. Is that about the time of year you head down there?

[RDMcG]

theboss said:

I was in Scottsdale in April and met a number of people - locals and 'Snowbirds' with second homes. Couldn't have been friendlier. I doubt there is much animosity towards anyone with a second home.

My brother has relocated to the Phoenix valley area recently with his family and reports the same at a neighbourhood level.

Have been over twice this year and love the place. Taking wife and small kids in October when weather should be more manageable. Is that about the time of year you head down there?

Usually a brief trip in October to open the house up and recomission the cars ( always something wrong after 6 months of storage). The late November thru Jan 15 ( OH stays all winter ) and back and forward till March. well worth exploring - amazing variety there.

[732NM]

I couldn't believe the traffic in Phoenix, unreal amount of cars on the highway.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

732NM said:

I couldn't believe the traffic in Phoenix, unreal amount of cars on the highway.

I was in LA at the weekend, the traffic is insane. The Metro system (bus and subway) is very good by US standards and stupidly cheap, but it's basically empty. Crazy.