Discussion
as said above its in behind the panel on the left hand side of the passenger footwell. you will need to peel back the carpet and find the 2 button head bolts that hold the panel in place.
can i ask why you want to access the ecu though? you do realize they are all password protected so you wont be able to gain access.
if there is something you want to do then pm me and il let you know if you can do it or not.
can i ask why you want to access the ecu though? you do realize they are all password protected so you wont be able to gain access.
if there is something you want to do then pm me and il let you know if you can do it or not.
Boosted LS1 said:
I'd be interested to know which ecu pcm they finally settled on as they certainly tried a few by all accounts.
did they?the first orange tso had a link fitted as did the silver press car for the first couple months but since then they have always been fitted with the same omex 710 unit.
Edited by deltaV on Saturday 20th October 18:39
Boosted LS1 said:
The first tso had an mbe fitted, I was there for dynoeing etc.
my mistake then. ive only ever seen them fitted with link ecu's. only mbe units i saw in the building where in the ts250's and 500'si know they never got idle control working on the link, hence they ran so badly when cold. the car came on leaps and bounds once put over onto omex and someone who really knew what they where doing with the software.
Well I'd guess marcos have only made/sold a dozen cars if that.
Prototype ran with the mbe but there were some issues which never really got resolved. Javelin stuff also had issues with the mbe. Constant remaps to get through mot's etc. I don't know much about link except that it's cheap, to cheap to be any good? Omex is good but there is so much more power to be had with a modified GM pcm. With hindsight and if marcos had invested in some development then that's probably the way they should have gone. They enquired about GM based products but never acted upon it.
Boosted.
Prototype ran with the mbe but there were some issues which never really got resolved. Javelin stuff also had issues with the mbe. Constant remaps to get through mot's etc. I don't know much about link except that it's cheap, to cheap to be any good? Omex is good but there is so much more power to be had with a modified GM pcm. With hindsight and if marcos had invested in some development then that's probably the way they should have gone. They enquired about GM based products but never acted upon it.
Boosted.
Boosted LS1 said:
Well I'd guess marcos have only made/sold a dozen cars if that.
Prototype ran with the mbe but there were some issues which never really got resolved. Javelin stuff also had issues with the mbe. Constant remaps to get through mot's etc. I don't know much about link except that it's cheap, to cheap to be any good? Omex is good but there is so much more power to be had with a modified GM pcm. With hindsight and if marcos had invested in some development then that's probably the way they should have gone. They enquired about GM based products but never acted upon it.
Boosted.
7 cars i think ?Prototype ran with the mbe but there were some issues which never really got resolved. Javelin stuff also had issues with the mbe. Constant remaps to get through mot's etc. I don't know much about link except that it's cheap, to cheap to be any good? Omex is good but there is so much more power to be had with a modified GM pcm. With hindsight and if marcos had invested in some development then that's probably the way they should have gone. They enquired about GM based products but never acted upon it.
Boosted.
yes i know it was looked into. however there where reasons why it was decided to not go down the gm route. one being that allot of other items where integrated into the tso engine loom and tooling was set for this. changing to a gm ecu would have meant more electrical development, which as most people know is the hard part of any small manufacturer.
why do you say there is more power to be had from the gm ecu? what can the gm unit do that the omex cant? engine related of course,not all the other stuff that the gm unit controls.
considering a stock ls2 is 405bhp i would say they did pretty well to get to 474bhp
Edited by deltaV on Saturday 20th October 23:00
Edited by deltaV on Saturday 20th October 23:02
474 bhp, I'd like to see the proof but that aside, the graph I saw was a photoshop, something was wrong with it. A 36-1 trigger wheel was fine for prototype engines with aftermarket ecu's but incompatible with gm ecu's. Once costs came into the equation the aftermarket stuff looks expensive. An omex may cost £800 at a guess. A loom to suit from the people marcos got looms from would be over £600 for an mbe (2 looms) but they bought cheaper from elsewhere so maybe £400 to suit the omex, who knows. They wasted time and money and did minimal development.
A gm ecu, truly all bells and whistles is $75 if you know where to go and a suitable street rod harness would be $150 or thereabouts. Remap with a suitable programme (efi live) and they could have imported/installed crate engines which was always the end game. The gm ecu has way more power then an omex, just look at the investment for starters. There's nothing wrong with an Omex imo but the gm product meets the very latest OBD requirements and powers hundreds of thousands of cars all over the planet and it's mappable. It has so much going on that I'm worried about how to remap it myself! Then again I could go on the net and download dozens of suitable maps
A gm ecu, truly all bells and whistles is $75 if you know where to go and a suitable street rod harness would be $150 or thereabouts. Remap with a suitable programme (efi live) and they could have imported/installed crate engines which was always the end game. The gm ecu has way more power then an omex, just look at the investment for starters. There's nothing wrong with an Omex imo but the gm product meets the very latest OBD requirements and powers hundreds of thousands of cars all over the planet and it's mappable. It has so much going on that I'm worried about how to remap it myself! Then again I could go on the net and download dozens of suitable maps
deltaV said:
Boosted LS1 said:
474 bhp, I'd like to see the proof but that aside, the graph I saw was a photoshop, something was wrong with it. A 36-1 trigger wheel was fine for prototype engines with aftermarket ecu's but incompatible with gm ecu's. Once costs came into the equation the aftermarket stuff looks expensive. An omex may cost £800 at a guess. A loom to suit from the people marcos got looms from would be over £600 for an mbe (2 looms) but they bought cheaper from elsewhere so maybe £400 to suit the omex, who knows. They wasted time and money and did minimal development.
A gm ecu, truly all bells and whistles is $75 if you know where to go and a suitable street rod harness would be $150 or thereabouts. Remap with a suitable programme (efi live) and they could have imported/installed crate engines which was always the end game. The gm ecu has way more power then an omex, just look at the investment for starters. There's nothing wrong with an Omex imo but the gm product meets the very latest OBD requirements and powers hundreds of thousands of cars all over the planet and it's mappable. It has so much going on that I'm worried about how to remap it myself! Then again I could go on the net and download dozens of suitable maps
well i dont have a copy of the dyno sheet but i can assure you it did make it as i was there when it did. the only downside to the 36-1 trigger was that the engine needs 2 revolutions to go stat sync and start as oppose to the gm one that always knows where it is. the data rate on the 36-1 is fine.A gm ecu, truly all bells and whistles is $75 if you know where to go and a suitable street rod harness would be $150 or thereabouts. Remap with a suitable programme (efi live) and they could have imported/installed crate engines which was always the end game. The gm ecu has way more power then an omex, just look at the investment for starters. There's nothing wrong with an Omex imo but the gm product meets the very latest OBD requirements and powers hundreds of thousands of cars all over the planet and it's mappable. It has so much going on that I'm worried about how to remap it myself! Then again I could go on the net and download dozens of suitable maps
a 710 may cost that retail but they would have payed allot less than that as they where buying them in greater numbers (or at least that was the plan. lol) for a loom your at least double over estimate im afraid. but dont forget that as said before the tso engine loom also had other items included in it such as air con, heater valve, ect ect and it was all made to length to fit the tso perfectly.
the tso used a crate engine anyway, it was a 15min job to fit the macros harness to it.
the gm unit is also designed to run the flyby wire throttle body which is fine for one off applications but it throws up all sorts of problems when your talking about small scale production as the saftey features needed to implicate such a system to meet regs takes allot of time and money to develop. not to mention the fact that the pedal pot wouldnt fit into the tso adjustable pedal box.
about the only advantage i can think of with the gm unit was that it runs knock control. the omex can also do this but marcos never had the time to develop this into the system.
anyway, im far to pissed and far to tired to type anymore so i bid you goodnight.
Edited by deltaV on Sunday 21st October 00:08
Morning DV,
Maybe omex offer several ecu, ie a cheap item as well as an expensive item? Perhaps they thought they would seel lots of them? I'd guessed at £800 as was speaking to some chaps at Horncastle about configuring the Omex to work with the GM trigger wheel. I think that's been achieved now. Have a read of this thread to see just how capable the GM ecu is. I saw something about it monitoring events 10 times a second and yes the knock sensors are really useful plus they can be adjusted for aggressiveness or not as the case may be.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
and here: http://www.efilive.com/overview_flash2.aspx
It can easily be configured to work with a cable throttle body. EfiLive has a repository or links to a repository where you can download free maps from similar vehicles. As for harnesses, you can buy them with pin outs for air-con or whatever else you want, length isn't a problem or get them made where marcos used to go.
I'm stuck between the latest dta option or the GM item and for now I'm sitting on the fence. I'm leaning towards the GM unit because it's plug and play and ridiculously cheap.
Maybe omex offer several ecu, ie a cheap item as well as an expensive item? Perhaps they thought they would seel lots of them? I'd guessed at £800 as was speaking to some chaps at Horncastle about configuring the Omex to work with the GM trigger wheel. I think that's been achieved now. Have a read of this thread to see just how capable the GM ecu is. I saw something about it monitoring events 10 times a second and yes the knock sensors are really useful plus they can be adjusted for aggressiveness or not as the case may be.
http://www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0...
and here: http://www.efilive.com/overview_flash2.aspx
It can easily be configured to work with a cable throttle body. EfiLive has a repository or links to a repository where you can download free maps from similar vehicles. As for harnesses, you can buy them with pin outs for air-con or whatever else you want, length isn't a problem or get them made where marcos used to go.
I'm stuck between the latest dta option or the GM item and for now I'm sitting on the fence. I'm leaning towards the GM unit because it's plug and play and ridiculously cheap.
Edited by Boosted LS1 on Sunday 21st October 10:10
morning boosted.
yes your correct, omex do a cheaper 600 series ecu (around the £550 mark. it is still a capable little unit but it doesn't have all the functions of the 710 obviously ie no internal data logging, and is desined more towards 4 pot engines rather than the v8 and v12's that the 710 can run.
the gm unit is very capable im not disputing that but at the time marcos where doing this project the gm stuff was only just coming to light and work had already been done on the omex. you have to draw a line under development at some point and just build the car to try and make some money.
looking at the list of capabilities of the gm unit there isnt really anything there that jumps out at me as being to superior to the omex unit. sure its great that you can plug into any obd2 ready to change stuff, but you can get map3000 free from omex and the data cable costs £5. the 710 was also doing pretty much everything else in the list you showed me for the gm unit. run time, lambda control, idle control, temps, map, ect ect.
as said, the main advantage was that the gm trigger wheel aloud it to keep a constant track of where it was on the engine rotation hence it could start at the flick of the key as oppose to the 2 rotations needed to sync the omex up. but im not to sure how it works now that omex have got it working with the standard trigger wheel.
i think it was mainly that tony went through a couple of people who said no problem we can do that and give you loads of power and perfect running and never quite fully got there at the quality he was looking for. after they went to omex there where no problems and everything worked as it should have and at the power they said they could deliver, plus Richard at omex is incredibly helpful and would answer the phone at pretty much anytime of day to work through any queries ect.
its all swings and roundabouts but at the time omex was the best option as they could deliver when they said they could. and thats invaluable when you have a very small design team and no time for anything.
regarding the power output of the ls2. i cant remember who it was but one of the dealers had his checked and it made around the 470bhp mark so they did make the claimed power unlike certain other sports car manufactures. lol
but back to the original point. James if you want to let me know what you want to do or if there is a problem then drop me a line and il give you what advice i can (or put you in touch with someone who can help)
yes your correct, omex do a cheaper 600 series ecu (around the £550 mark. it is still a capable little unit but it doesn't have all the functions of the 710 obviously ie no internal data logging, and is desined more towards 4 pot engines rather than the v8 and v12's that the 710 can run.
the gm unit is very capable im not disputing that but at the time marcos where doing this project the gm stuff was only just coming to light and work had already been done on the omex. you have to draw a line under development at some point and just build the car to try and make some money.
looking at the list of capabilities of the gm unit there isnt really anything there that jumps out at me as being to superior to the omex unit. sure its great that you can plug into any obd2 ready to change stuff, but you can get map3000 free from omex and the data cable costs £5. the 710 was also doing pretty much everything else in the list you showed me for the gm unit. run time, lambda control, idle control, temps, map, ect ect.
as said, the main advantage was that the gm trigger wheel aloud it to keep a constant track of where it was on the engine rotation hence it could start at the flick of the key as oppose to the 2 rotations needed to sync the omex up. but im not to sure how it works now that omex have got it working with the standard trigger wheel.
i think it was mainly that tony went through a couple of people who said no problem we can do that and give you loads of power and perfect running and never quite fully got there at the quality he was looking for. after they went to omex there where no problems and everything worked as it should have and at the power they said they could deliver, plus Richard at omex is incredibly helpful and would answer the phone at pretty much anytime of day to work through any queries ect.
its all swings and roundabouts but at the time omex was the best option as they could deliver when they said they could. and thats invaluable when you have a very small design team and no time for anything.
regarding the power output of the ls2. i cant remember who it was but one of the dealers had his checked and it made around the 470bhp mark so they did make the claimed power unlike certain other sports car manufactures. lol
but back to the original point. James if you want to let me know what you want to do or if there is a problem then drop me a line and il give you what advice i can (or put you in touch with someone who can help)
Edited by deltaV on Sunday 21st October 11:15
no Richard wragg who owns omex.
the 710 can run maf as well if it wants to and is the ideal way to go. its just more money on expensive sensors ect.
the tso was done on throttle angle in the end as map wasnt giving enough detail just past idle.
the 710 can run maf as well if it wants to and is the ideal way to go. its just more money on expensive sensors ect.
the tso was done on throttle angle in the end as map wasnt giving enough detail just past idle.
Edited by deltaV on Sunday 21st October 14:10
deltaV said:
as said above its in behind the panel on the left hand side of the passenger footwell. you will need to peel back the carpet and find the 2 button head bolts that hold the panel in place.
can i ask why you want to access the ecu though? you do realize they are all password protected so you wont be able to gain access.
if there is something you want to do then pm me and il let you know if you can do it or not.
Many thanks,tried to pm but failed.The car has always pinked at certain revs without a large amount of octane boost-a re-map was on the way but not happened so need to sort it out asapcan i ask why you want to access the ecu though? you do realize they are all password protected so you wont be able to gain access.
if there is something you want to do then pm me and il let you know if you can do it or not.
hi james, i understand you have spoken to andy at omex now so hopefully he has sorted you out.
robbyt, the problems that v800 is having is nothing to do with the ecu manufacture, its due to the car manufacture not giving omex time to check things that should have been checked when gm changed the tooth pattern from 24x to 60-2.
robbyt, the problems that v800 is having is nothing to do with the ecu manufacture, its due to the car manufacture not giving omex time to check things that should have been checked when gm changed the tooth pattern from 24x to 60-2.
Edited by deltaV on Monday 22 October 14:43
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