Cultural Egypt type trip? Waste of money?
Discussion
Bit of back ground - I usually go on an annual trip for about 3wks to somewhere interesting - Vietnam/Cambodia, Africa, India/Nepal, Papua New Guinea etc. Trouble is that whislt fantastic I do spend a significant proportion of my spare income doing it (ca. £2.5k for the last few trips). I'm thinking with the brownturn I might do something cheaper, just in case.
Egypt is one possibility - close so flights are cheap, and plenty to see and do. I'm thinking cairo, out into the white desert, round a few oasisisisis, luxor, minimal felucca action and a bit of beach.
Trouble is I'm sure sure it will be "special" enough. I'm used to getting fairly well of the main tourist hack (though that is largely impossible these days), and one of the main reasons for going is for photography. Not really that bothered by the whole egyptology thing!
Will egypt be special enough?
Will it be totally overrun with hundreds of Americans?
Is it possible to have decent, genuie interaction with the locals?
I just don't know. What do people think? Any cheap alternatives (though probably not Morocco as I may be off there soon anyway.
Egypt is one possibility - close so flights are cheap, and plenty to see and do. I'm thinking cairo, out into the white desert, round a few oasisisisis, luxor, minimal felucca action and a bit of beach.
Trouble is I'm sure sure it will be "special" enough. I'm used to getting fairly well of the main tourist hack (though that is largely impossible these days), and one of the main reasons for going is for photography. Not really that bothered by the whole egyptology thing!
Will egypt be special enough?
Will it be totally overrun with hundreds of Americans?
Is it possible to have decent, genuie interaction with the locals?
I just don't know. What do people think? Any cheap alternatives (though probably not Morocco as I may be off there soon anyway.
VxDuncan said:
Bit of back ground - I usually go on an annual trip for about 3wks to somewhere interesting - Vietnam/Cambodia, Africa, India/Nepal, Papua New Guinea etc. Trouble is that whislt fantastic I do spend a significant proportion of my spare income doing it (ca. £2.5k for the last few trips). I'm thinking with the brownturn I might do something cheaper, just in case.
Egypt is one possibility - close so flights are cheap, and plenty to see and do. I'm thinking cairo, out into the white desert, round a few oasisisisis, luxor, minimal felucca action and a bit of beach.
Trouble is I'm sure sure it will be "special" enough. I'm used to getting fairly well of the main tourist hack (though that is largely impossible these days), and one of the main reasons for going is for photography. Not really that bothered by the whole egyptology thing!
Will egypt be special enough?
Will it be totally overrun with hundreds of Americans?
Is it possible to have decent, genuie interaction with the locals?
I just don't know. What do people think? Any cheap alternatives (though probably not Morocco as I may be off there soon anyway.
Not really sure what you mean about not being bothered by the Egyptology thing. If you mean you are not interested in seeing the pyramids, Luxor, Karnak, etc., then maybe Egypt is really not for you. I have been many times to Egypt it is a great place.Egypt is one possibility - close so flights are cheap, and plenty to see and do. I'm thinking cairo, out into the white desert, round a few oasisisisis, luxor, minimal felucca action and a bit of beach.
Trouble is I'm sure sure it will be "special" enough. I'm used to getting fairly well of the main tourist hack (though that is largely impossible these days), and one of the main reasons for going is for photography. Not really that bothered by the whole egyptology thing!
Will egypt be special enough?
Will it be totally overrun with hundreds of Americans?
Is it possible to have decent, genuie interaction with the locals?
I just don't know. What do people think? Any cheap alternatives (though probably not Morocco as I may be off there soon anyway.
As a westerner you will be treated as a tourist in 90% of places. It's not totally overrun with Americans, but it is with Russians (Russians on tour are considerably worse than our lager louts.) The Egyptians a re a warm & friendly people, you will be able to get off the beaten track.
I would thoroughly recommend Egypt.
The Pyramids/Luxor etc are bound to be pretty busy on the tourist front, but IMO once you get to the coast and also on the feluccas, it is easy enough to escape the crowds. I guess Egypt stands out as a popular destination that has been busy for years, but it's still a fantastic place to go.
Are you looking at organising everything yourself or would you go for a tour? We've got various options taking in everything you've said then you are free at the end to do whatever you fancy on the coast. I'll also look at flights if you want me to. Just drop me an email
Are you looking at organising everything yourself or would you go for a tour? We've got various options taking in everything you've said then you are free at the end to do whatever you fancy on the coast. I'll also look at flights if you want me to. Just drop me an email
Thanks everyone! I should probably explain more. I guess I have a few reason for travelling - to push myself out of the comfort zone, to have those crazy "oh my god I just got charged by a mountain gorilla"/"what do you mean you've eaten people"/"I can't beleive I've just shared a cabin with a couple of Viet Cong" type experiences, and for some seriously cool photography opportunities (usually people type shots).
Yes, I'm interested in seeing the pyramids and luxor, but the chance to spend some time wondreing round an oasis in the middle of the desert meeting the locals is far more of an attraction. I must be a bit odd!
As for a group, well I haven't decided, might do a mix of start off with a group (through the desert), then branch out on my own.
I think I need to go and look at some itineries, but you lot have definitely encouraged me!
And Russians on holiday - like Americans, but with more money!
Yes, I'm interested in seeing the pyramids and luxor, but the chance to spend some time wondreing round an oasis in the middle of the desert meeting the locals is far more of an attraction. I must be a bit odd!
As for a group, well I haven't decided, might do a mix of start off with a group (through the desert), then branch out on my own.
I think I need to go and look at some itineries, but you lot have definitely encouraged me!
And Russians on holiday - like Americans, but with more money!
You could look at something like this as an example then stay in Dahab/on the coast afterwards:
http://www.gapadventures.com/tour/DPRE
There are plenty of options out there though. It seems to be better to tour in the heart of the country then go for it yourself on the coast.
http://www.gapadventures.com/tour/DPRE
There are plenty of options out there though. It seems to be better to tour in the heart of the country then go for it yourself on the coast.
Egypt is great!
Lovely people, if you can get to meet them. Organised tours will likely keep you away.
If you want to get out of your comfort zone, most souks will be able to help, and you'll come out with crap you never thought you wanted! Best way to get a bargain is to simply keep saying 'No'.
Be aware that the Red Sea is a long bloody drive from e.g. Luxor, and 'day trips' will often have you there at the hottest past of the day, when you'll be too busy begging for water to even see the sights.
Lovely people, if you can get to meet them. Organised tours will likely keep you away.
If you want to get out of your comfort zone, most souks will be able to help, and you'll come out with crap you never thought you wanted! Best way to get a bargain is to simply keep saying 'No'.
Be aware that the Red Sea is a long bloody drive from e.g. Luxor, and 'day trips' will often have you there at the hottest past of the day, when you'll be too busy begging for water to even see the sights.
If you want a bit more unusual, I would do syria and lebanon. Much less touristy, people don't hassle you or see you as a cash machine (more likely to invite you back for tea, actuall). Incredible ruins, and the best food in the middle east.
Damascus and beirut are fantastic cities with culture, nightliffe, amazing markets and next to no tourist impact outside the main attractions.
Damascus and beirut are fantastic cities with culture, nightliffe, amazing markets and next to no tourist impact outside the main attractions.
The Egypt tourist trail is horrendously busy but you can escape it pretty easily, even in the tourist centres. You'll never get so far off the beaten track that people won't know what to make of you but at least they'll stop trying to sell you tat.
Libya (and even Tunisia away from the coast) are better from a meeting the locals perspective. They obviously don't have the scale of ruins of Egypt but the extent of Roman stuff is gobsmacking. It's also easier to get into the desert proper as a fair bit of Egypt is still off limits, either due to security concerns or minefields
Since the various terror attacks the Egyptians also prefer tourists to travel in groups and move you about in convoy. IMO it's counter-productive but it seems they like to be seen to be doing something. It's possible to escape but involves a certain amount of sweet-talking and benign stubborness (we didn't try bribes and people we met who tried shouting got nowhere).
There was even talk (3 years ago) of lifting the requirement in Libya of tourists having to travel with a guide. This didn't originally come about because of security issues or Ghadaffi's paranoia but because a group of (IIRC) Germans trashed some neolithic rock art trying to take a cast.
ETA: A lot of North Africa is keen on the Euro, which eats into the cheap factor given current exchange rates.
Libya (and even Tunisia away from the coast) are better from a meeting the locals perspective. They obviously don't have the scale of ruins of Egypt but the extent of Roman stuff is gobsmacking. It's also easier to get into the desert proper as a fair bit of Egypt is still off limits, either due to security concerns or minefields
Since the various terror attacks the Egyptians also prefer tourists to travel in groups and move you about in convoy. IMO it's counter-productive but it seems they like to be seen to be doing something. It's possible to escape but involves a certain amount of sweet-talking and benign stubborness (we didn't try bribes and people we met who tried shouting got nowhere).
There was even talk (3 years ago) of lifting the requirement in Libya of tourists having to travel with a guide. This didn't originally come about because of security issues or Ghadaffi's paranoia but because a group of (IIRC) Germans trashed some neolithic rock art trying to take a cast.
ETA: A lot of North Africa is keen on the Euro, which eats into the cheap factor given current exchange rates.
Edited by mechsympathy on Friday 15th May 08:59
mechsympathy said:
The Egypt tourist trail is horrendously busy but you can escape it pretty easily, even in the tourist centres. You'll never get so far off the beaten track that people won't know what to make of you but at least they'll stop trying to sell you tat.
Libya (and even Tunisia away from the coast) are better from a meeting the locals perspective. They obviously don't have the scale of ruins of Egypt but the extent of Roman stuff is gobsmacking. It's also easier to get into the desert proper as a fair bit of Egypt is still off limits, either due to security concerns or minefields
Since the various terror attacks the Egyptians also prefer tourists to travel in groups and move you about in convoy. IMO it's counter-productive but it seems they like to be seen to be doing something. It's possible to escape but involves a certain amount of sweet-talking and benign stubborness (we didn't try bribes and people we met who tried shouting got nowhere).
There was even talk (3 years ago) of lifting the requirement in Libya of tourists having to travel with a guide. This didn't originally come about because of security issues or Ghadaffi's paranoia but because a group of (IIRC) Germans trashed some neolithic rock art trying to take a cast.
ETA: A lot of North Africa is keen on the Euro, which eats into the cheap factor given current exchange rates.
To add to the above, Libya has a lot of Roman ruins which are pretty impressive.Libya (and even Tunisia away from the coast) are better from a meeting the locals perspective. They obviously don't have the scale of ruins of Egypt but the extent of Roman stuff is gobsmacking. It's also easier to get into the desert proper as a fair bit of Egypt is still off limits, either due to security concerns or minefields
Since the various terror attacks the Egyptians also prefer tourists to travel in groups and move you about in convoy. IMO it's counter-productive but it seems they like to be seen to be doing something. It's possible to escape but involves a certain amount of sweet-talking and benign stubborness (we didn't try bribes and people we met who tried shouting got nowhere).
There was even talk (3 years ago) of lifting the requirement in Libya of tourists having to travel with a guide. This didn't originally come about because of security issues or Ghadaffi's paranoia but because a group of (IIRC) Germans trashed some neolithic rock art trying to take a cast.
ETA: A lot of North Africa is keen on the Euro, which eats into the cheap factor given current exchange rates.
Edited by mechsympathy on Friday 15th May 08:59
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