Travelling the North West Frontier
Discussion
I've always had a fascination to see where my forbears were posted to in service of the King so finally plucked up the courage and the cash to buy a ticket to the North West Frontier Province Pakistan. So here's what Peshawar was like...
First posting for the PH officionados .... cars, roads and driving.
The roads are jam packed with cars, jingly trucks, motorbikes, rickshaws, carts, cycles, taxis, buses, animals, pedestrians. Everything moves at breakneck speed. Anything can stop anywhere at any time without any notice. And can decide to reverse or do a U-turn anywhere including on 1 way roads. There are no roadmarkings, streetlights, traffic signs. I've seen 1 roundabout. No traffic lights. There is no such thing as 'giving way' or 'right of way'. MoTs - what's an MoT? Driving Test - hahahaha. Indicators are a waste. Working headlights appear to be optional. 1 motorcyclist was navigating with the light from their mobile fone. Everything passes each other with just a cat's whisker in between. No quarter is given. Nerves of steel are required and that's just as a passenger!
The car scene is dominated by Japanese cars. But I've seen lots of Ford Transit mark 2s with the 3 rows of seats acting as taxis. So good seeing these still running. And lots of Bedford trucks tarted up in jingly gear doing the heavy lifting moving heavy goods up mountain roads. I saw a Beetle - apparently popular for wedding fotos.
The driving ... what an experience! Thrilling and s
t curdingly terrifying at the same time. Get it on your bucket list. Talk about sensory overload. The noise, the volume of traffic, the mayhem.
Rickshaws are everywhere. 4-stroke engines with a covered cart allowing 2-3 passengers. Cheap and incredibly manoeuvrable they can squeeze into the tightest of spaces in traffic and therefore do. They'll come at you from all directions, head on turning at the last moment. The Honda CD70 motorbikes are the other scourge. Designed for a single rider but seemingly capable of carrying up to 5 they undertake, overtake. Women sit side saddle without seemingly holding onto anything but with their shawls fluttering next to the bike chains.
The roads are absolute chaos. But despite the apparent mayhem and free for all, you know what...it all seems to work. Traffic moves at an incredible pace. People and goods move to where they need to be. Roads are never at a stand still. Grab a taxi from anywhere to anywhere. You can hire 'specials' for the day - a driver and aircon car at an incredibly cheap rate. I've travelled the world and never seen anything quite like the sheer sight, sounds and volume of Peshawar.
First posting for the PH officionados .... cars, roads and driving.
The roads are jam packed with cars, jingly trucks, motorbikes, rickshaws, carts, cycles, taxis, buses, animals, pedestrians. Everything moves at breakneck speed. Anything can stop anywhere at any time without any notice. And can decide to reverse or do a U-turn anywhere including on 1 way roads. There are no roadmarkings, streetlights, traffic signs. I've seen 1 roundabout. No traffic lights. There is no such thing as 'giving way' or 'right of way'. MoTs - what's an MoT? Driving Test - hahahaha. Indicators are a waste. Working headlights appear to be optional. 1 motorcyclist was navigating with the light from their mobile fone. Everything passes each other with just a cat's whisker in between. No quarter is given. Nerves of steel are required and that's just as a passenger!
The car scene is dominated by Japanese cars. But I've seen lots of Ford Transit mark 2s with the 3 rows of seats acting as taxis. So good seeing these still running. And lots of Bedford trucks tarted up in jingly gear doing the heavy lifting moving heavy goods up mountain roads. I saw a Beetle - apparently popular for wedding fotos.
The driving ... what an experience! Thrilling and s
t curdingly terrifying at the same time. Get it on your bucket list. Talk about sensory overload. The noise, the volume of traffic, the mayhem. Rickshaws are everywhere. 4-stroke engines with a covered cart allowing 2-3 passengers. Cheap and incredibly manoeuvrable they can squeeze into the tightest of spaces in traffic and therefore do. They'll come at you from all directions, head on turning at the last moment. The Honda CD70 motorbikes are the other scourge. Designed for a single rider but seemingly capable of carrying up to 5 they undertake, overtake. Women sit side saddle without seemingly holding onto anything but with their shawls fluttering next to the bike chains.
The roads are absolute chaos. But despite the apparent mayhem and free for all, you know what...it all seems to work. Traffic moves at an incredible pace. People and goods move to where they need to be. Roads are never at a stand still. Grab a taxi from anywhere to anywhere. You can hire 'specials' for the day - a driver and aircon car at an incredibly cheap rate. I've travelled the world and never seen anything quite like the sheer sight, sounds and volume of Peshawar.
A lot of those Transits will have been driven direct from the UK back in the 70's and 80 (IIRC after 1979 they had to take the southern route via Balochistan due to the Russian invasion). In those days an airline ticket to Pakistan cost the equivalent of £4,000 so it made far more sense for a family of 5 to buy a Transit, stick a mattress in the back, and drive there. the profit they'd make on selling the Transit would more than cover the return fare.
Two of my uncles did it a couple of times. Both were trained mechanics (one was former REME). There was normally a convoy of 3-4 vehicles and you wanted to make sure there was at least one person who'd be able to fix things if there were any breakdowns.
As a 5 year old it looked amazing - I remember going down to Dover to see them off once and seeing my first arcade game in the service station - Pong.
Two of my uncles did it a couple of times. Both were trained mechanics (one was former REME). There was normally a convoy of 3-4 vehicles and you wanted to make sure there was at least one person who'd be able to fix things if there were any breakdowns.
As a 5 year old it looked amazing - I remember going down to Dover to see them off once and seeing my first arcade game in the service station - Pong.
Faz-n8om6 said:
Working headlights appear to be optional.
I have driven in Southern Egypt where no one uses headlights at night. No one. The law is vague on the matter, and since the law is worded more sternly regarding dazzling other drivers at night, the oh so polite Southern Egyptians/Nubians don't use them at all. I didn't try driving at night.I spent a month between Faisalabad & Lahore. It was the longest 4 weeks of my life. The place is an utter sh@thole and I cannot think of one single redeeming feature about the place - maybe the Chinese/Asian restaurant at the Serena. At a push.
I’ve been to (and lived in) some pretty grotty places but Pakistan trumps them all.
An enduring memory is a newly built factory that I was doing some work in which had a ‘very swish’ glass fronted entrance. As you got closer to the door, you would find a tin bucket at either side of the door emblazoned with red text saying “Spit Here”.
Hell of a place.
I’ve been to (and lived in) some pretty grotty places but Pakistan trumps them all.
An enduring memory is a newly built factory that I was doing some work in which had a ‘very swish’ glass fronted entrance. As you got closer to the door, you would find a tin bucket at either side of the door emblazoned with red text saying “Spit Here”.
Hell of a place.
I'm not a big picture taker but I'll see what I've got.
Don't write off a country based on one-offs. I've been on lots of trips abroad where all that some of the group wanted to do was find the nearest Irish pub and drink in there all day long moaning about effin foreigners. I like travelling because it opens my eyes and makes me appreciate what lucky breaks I've had.
@Countdown I was wondering why those transit vans were there. Everyday's a learning day! And you're right there are loads of RTAs. There did not appear to be any thought to safety. No one wore seatbelts or helmets. No one thought you know what I won't overtake on a blind bend or ...let me give way. We were involved in one with a motorbike. I'll write up how that went ..
Peshawar and NWFP is very different to the rest of Pakistan. Different food, scenery, culture, weather, language and ways. Like mountain people everywhere they looked lean, tough. People were paler. Everyone was totally hospitable but there also was plenty of warning about ambushes on mountain roads at night by robbers. Everywhere was male dominated. Women were present but covered up and were given respect when they were passing.
I travelled from Peshawar to Pabbi and then up the mountain road. It was a relief to get away from the smog of the city up into clean cold air. Thankfully this time of year there were no mossies or flies. Temp was a nice mid 20's in the day but very cold at night. There hadn't been any rain for weeks so everywhere was dry and dusty. The night sky was beautiful. Lots of stars visible. One night I saw a line of 'stars' moving across the night sky. Must have been about 20 of them, one behind the other. I guess they must have been Elon Musks starlink satellites?
This was the road that British troops would march up in long columns to get to the garrison camp at Cherat. Long columns of men, horses, mules and materiel accompanied by all the camp workers marching up that road. Went to a place called Jalozai Camp where soldiers would rest and regroup before the last push up the mountain road to Cherat. It was easy to see how the tribesmen could lay ambushes and generally be a nuisance. The terrain was hilly. A snipers dream. The local houses seemed to be small fortresses. Big thick walls. Metal doors. Shuttered windows.
Couldn't help reflecting that a bit over a hundred years ago young men would be posted for a 3 or 5 year posting overseas. Officers families would be posted abroad for a lifetime with children raised there, schooled there, and looked after by batmen and servants. Nowadays soldiers are posted on 'out of areas deployments' for 6 months. Back then there was no WhatsApp, or Facetiming every day back home. Once you were gone, you were gone. Wondered how young soldiers coped back then....
Got as far as the last stretch to Cherat. Cherat is at the top of a mountain. On the side of the road to it were old Regimental badges carved into the rock. Fading away now and could do with a lick of paint. Black Watch. Border Regiment, Fusiliers. Couldn't get into Cherat itself as it is now a functioning Pakistani Army camp but was told that there are yet more British Army badges in the mountain face and some standing buildings from British Empire days.
Don't write off a country based on one-offs. I've been on lots of trips abroad where all that some of the group wanted to do was find the nearest Irish pub and drink in there all day long moaning about effin foreigners. I like travelling because it opens my eyes and makes me appreciate what lucky breaks I've had.
@Countdown I was wondering why those transit vans were there. Everyday's a learning day! And you're right there are loads of RTAs. There did not appear to be any thought to safety. No one wore seatbelts or helmets. No one thought you know what I won't overtake on a blind bend or ...let me give way. We were involved in one with a motorbike. I'll write up how that went ..
Peshawar and NWFP is very different to the rest of Pakistan. Different food, scenery, culture, weather, language and ways. Like mountain people everywhere they looked lean, tough. People were paler. Everyone was totally hospitable but there also was plenty of warning about ambushes on mountain roads at night by robbers. Everywhere was male dominated. Women were present but covered up and were given respect when they were passing.
I travelled from Peshawar to Pabbi and then up the mountain road. It was a relief to get away from the smog of the city up into clean cold air. Thankfully this time of year there were no mossies or flies. Temp was a nice mid 20's in the day but very cold at night. There hadn't been any rain for weeks so everywhere was dry and dusty. The night sky was beautiful. Lots of stars visible. One night I saw a line of 'stars' moving across the night sky. Must have been about 20 of them, one behind the other. I guess they must have been Elon Musks starlink satellites?
This was the road that British troops would march up in long columns to get to the garrison camp at Cherat. Long columns of men, horses, mules and materiel accompanied by all the camp workers marching up that road. Went to a place called Jalozai Camp where soldiers would rest and regroup before the last push up the mountain road to Cherat. It was easy to see how the tribesmen could lay ambushes and generally be a nuisance. The terrain was hilly. A snipers dream. The local houses seemed to be small fortresses. Big thick walls. Metal doors. Shuttered windows.
Couldn't help reflecting that a bit over a hundred years ago young men would be posted for a 3 or 5 year posting overseas. Officers families would be posted abroad for a lifetime with children raised there, schooled there, and looked after by batmen and servants. Nowadays soldiers are posted on 'out of areas deployments' for 6 months. Back then there was no WhatsApp, or Facetiming every day back home. Once you were gone, you were gone. Wondered how young soldiers coped back then....
Got as far as the last stretch to Cherat. Cherat is at the top of a mountain. On the side of the road to it were old Regimental badges carved into the rock. Fading away now and could do with a lick of paint. Black Watch. Border Regiment, Fusiliers. Couldn't get into Cherat itself as it is now a functioning Pakistani Army camp but was told that there are yet more British Army badges in the mountain face and some standing buildings from British Empire days.
MarkJS said:
I spent a month between Faisalabad & Lahore. It was the longest 4 weeks of my life. The place is an utter sh@thole and I cannot think of one single redeeming feature about the place - maybe the Chinese/Asian restaurant at the Serena. At a push.
I’ve been to (and lived in) some pretty grotty places but Pakistan trumps them all.
An enduring memory is a newly built factory that I was doing some work in which had a ‘very swish’ glass fronted entrance. As you got closer to the door, you would find a tin bucket at either side of the door emblazoned with red text saying “Spit Here”.
Hell of a place.
Lots of Pakistan is unfortunately "grotty". There is a plastic litter problem - it seems to be everywhere in urban areas. I have mixed memories of Lahore, there are some very nice parts and the history is fascinating - lots of beautiful buildings - a very busy place. Faisalabad, I wasn't the biggest fan of. I loved the food in Pakistan (but you need to be cautious when choosing where to eat, I was fine eating out but chose busy places where the food arrived piping hot and avoided any salad or sauce). I’ve been to (and lived in) some pretty grotty places but Pakistan trumps them all.
An enduring memory is a newly built factory that I was doing some work in which had a ‘very swish’ glass fronted entrance. As you got closer to the door, you would find a tin bucket at either side of the door emblazoned with red text saying “Spit Here”.
Hell of a place.
It's a massive country and the people, scenery, and cities vary massively. I enjoy the rural areas. Being out at night, I've never seen the stars in the sky so clearly.
I'd like to go back and visit the mountainous regions like Skardu. I have a dream that one day I'll have enough money to stop working, I'll buy a Land Cruiser and drive through Europe, North Africa and then to Iran/Pakistan/China for an adventure.
Piles of rubbish at the side of the road was a regular thing but apparently these were designated rubbish points where the government services would collect. But of course these services didn't keep their part of the deal. I did find cattle looking for food scraps in rubbish tips full of plastic bags particularly depressing.
Apart from the scenery and seeing the Regimental badges, the food was the best part. I ate from stalls in marketplaces. Chicken and mutton skewers roasted on coals, mixed in with curry sauce and then eaten with freshly made naan. Superb. I didn't drink the water but instead would opt for the sugar cane drink or orange juice extracted with some threshing machine or the yoghurt based lassi drink. All coming in at less than £2 for a meal for one.
Restaurant and hotel food wasn't any better than the market stalls. But there was Western choices - pasta, chips, burgers, pizza. What I found odd was the portion sizes. Despite asking for a table for 1 the food brought out was clearly for a group or family. My vegetable soup was brought out in a massive bowl easily enough for 6. The chicken karai must have been 3 chickens worth as it had 6 chicken legs, lots of breast meat, loads of wings. I think that meal with 2 lassi's (sweet and salty) came to £10! I got annoyed at the slow service bringing out the chicken karai but the waiter apologized and said he was waiting for me to finish the soup before bringing out the main. It would have taken me all night finishing that volume of soup!
Back to driving ...
We went off the main road into one of the villages at a place called Mohajer's bazar. When the Russians invaded Afghanistan, loads of refugees streamed across the Khyber Pass and many settled there. They set up shops and created the thriving bazar that continued after they were then expelled. Driving in the village was a whole new ball game. The roads were incredibly narrow. Just a little over a cars width between houses yet the thoroughfare for pedestrians, motorbikes, cars and compact Suzuki vans. And donkeys, overburdened with cement and bricks. Negotiating passage when 2 vehicles came head-on on the same stretch was a major feat. The tracks were axle breaking with all the ramps, potholes, gullys and water pipes. The battering that cars take and yet continue running is astonishing, serviced and repaired by people with the most basic of tools and an abundance of Japanese parts.
There was a wedding going on. Around the world normally celebrated with fireworks. But in this part of the world the custom was to let off a mag of 7.62 from an AK-47 into the air. But no seeming consideration that what goes up must come down somewhere!
Note to self for an entrepreneurial opportunity - quad bikes would have been ideal in those road conditions and terrain. And fun! Don't know if they are available with small trailers though to make them multipurpose.
Apart from the scenery and seeing the Regimental badges, the food was the best part. I ate from stalls in marketplaces. Chicken and mutton skewers roasted on coals, mixed in with curry sauce and then eaten with freshly made naan. Superb. I didn't drink the water but instead would opt for the sugar cane drink or orange juice extracted with some threshing machine or the yoghurt based lassi drink. All coming in at less than £2 for a meal for one.
Restaurant and hotel food wasn't any better than the market stalls. But there was Western choices - pasta, chips, burgers, pizza. What I found odd was the portion sizes. Despite asking for a table for 1 the food brought out was clearly for a group or family. My vegetable soup was brought out in a massive bowl easily enough for 6. The chicken karai must have been 3 chickens worth as it had 6 chicken legs, lots of breast meat, loads of wings. I think that meal with 2 lassi's (sweet and salty) came to £10! I got annoyed at the slow service bringing out the chicken karai but the waiter apologized and said he was waiting for me to finish the soup before bringing out the main. It would have taken me all night finishing that volume of soup!
Back to driving ...
We went off the main road into one of the villages at a place called Mohajer's bazar. When the Russians invaded Afghanistan, loads of refugees streamed across the Khyber Pass and many settled there. They set up shops and created the thriving bazar that continued after they were then expelled. Driving in the village was a whole new ball game. The roads were incredibly narrow. Just a little over a cars width between houses yet the thoroughfare for pedestrians, motorbikes, cars and compact Suzuki vans. And donkeys, overburdened with cement and bricks. Negotiating passage when 2 vehicles came head-on on the same stretch was a major feat. The tracks were axle breaking with all the ramps, potholes, gullys and water pipes. The battering that cars take and yet continue running is astonishing, serviced and repaired by people with the most basic of tools and an abundance of Japanese parts.
There was a wedding going on. Around the world normally celebrated with fireworks. But in this part of the world the custom was to let off a mag of 7.62 from an AK-47 into the air. But no seeming consideration that what goes up must come down somewhere!
Note to self for an entrepreneurial opportunity - quad bikes would have been ideal in those road conditions and terrain. And fun! Don't know if they are available with small trailers though to make them multipurpose.
turbomoggie said:
MarkJS said:
I spent a month between Faisalabad & Lahore. It was the longest 4 weeks of my life. The place is an utter sh@thole and I cannot think of one single redeeming feature about the place - maybe the Chinese/Asian restaurant at the Serena. At a push.
I’ve been to (and lived in) some pretty grotty places but Pakistan trumps them all.
An enduring memory is a newly built factory that I was doing some work in which had a ‘very swish’ glass fronted entrance. As you got closer to the door, you would find a tin bucket at either side of the door emblazoned with red text saying “Spit Here”.
Hell of a place.
Lots of Pakistan is unfortunately "grotty". There is a plastic litter problem - it seems to be everywhere in urban areas. I have mixed memories of Lahore, there are some very nice parts and the history is fascinating - lots of beautiful buildings - a very busy place. Faisalabad, I wasn't the biggest fan of. I loved the food in Pakistan (but you need to be cautious when choosing where to eat, I was fine eating out but chose busy places where the food arrived piping hot and avoided any salad or sauce). I’ve been to (and lived in) some pretty grotty places but Pakistan trumps them all.
An enduring memory is a newly built factory that I was doing some work in which had a ‘very swish’ glass fronted entrance. As you got closer to the door, you would find a tin bucket at either side of the door emblazoned with red text saying “Spit Here”.
Hell of a place.
It's a massive country and the people, scenery, and cities vary massively. I enjoy the rural areas. Being out at night, I've never seen the stars in the sky so clearly.
I'd like to go back and visit the mountainous regions like Skardu. I have a dream that one day I'll have enough money to stop working, I'll buy a Land Cruiser and drive through Europe, North Africa and then to Iran/Pakistan/China for an adventure.
I’m always up for an international adventure and I’m well aware that most of the world’s population doesn’t live like we do in north Western Europe. However, there are some utterly stunning parts of the world to visit without subjecting yourself to that cesspit and many of its inhabitants.
In terms of food - I found it very bland. I’m not squeamish but an enduring memory is seeing every bit of raw meat or fish for sale encrusted with a layer of flies. I’ve seen far better standards of hygiene in other third world countries I’ve visited.
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