USA ESTA revoked midterm

[delboyvette]

Hi,

I have travelled every year at least once (other than COVID) to USA since 1978 without any problems.

I applied and was granted a ESTA in January this year and travelled to USA for a month in March. Returned with no issues.

I then booked a flight to Miami in September. When I went to get boarding pass it transpired my ESTA had been cancelled. I never received any warning of this. When I requested further information I was told they do not have to provide a reason. I have checked my return in April was logged as I know sometimes this is incorrectly recorded so looks like you've over stayed but this was all OK.

Has anyone had this happen and been able to find out what may have caused it.

I did hire a car but there are no outstanding payments etc.

I have been advised to apply for a visa but if it's not granted you lose the $185 application fee. Without any clue as to why the ESTA was cancelled I don't see why a visa would be granted.

Any help please.

[Bonefish Blues]

US Embassy maybe?

[hidetheelephants]

delboyvette said:

I have been advised to apply for a visa but if it's not granted you lose the $185 application fee.

Hobson's choice, if you want to go to the US again you'll need a visa. I'd speculate someone with a similar name to you has done something naughty and Homeland Security's computer has had a brain fart.

[Matt Harper]

How many times do you typically visit each year and for what duration?

[delboyvette]

Normally go twice a year for 2/3 weeks. Now retired so went for a month last time, trip we were going on was for 3 weeks.

[x5tuu]

hidetheelephants said:

I'd speculate someone with a similar name to you has done something naughty and Homeland Security's computer has had a brain fart.

This.

I had my ESTA revoked mid-atlantic a few years ago.

I was removed from the immigration queue on arrival into JFK and hand / ankle restrained and cuffed to a metal chair in the little JFK prison facility.

I was then subject to full searches of my luggage and digital devices I had on me and interviewed at length over the course of a few hours - all the while my daughter (5 at the time) and partner were left in the baggage hall without any information about what was happening to me. The interviews were massively weighted around someone they beleived was a known associate of mine, connected via employment, someone I had never heard, but who the officers kept saying to me "was a bad man, and has done some very bad things". Lots of questions exclusively about male relatives too. The officers also had a pre-prepared file with a load of internet based stuff on me - quite scary tbh.

I was released eventually and homeland secutiry and the NYPD checked in with me whilst I was in NYC at my hotel.

It was only a 1wk trip and on return I was pulled from exit immigration and boarding card check I pulled out again, had all luggage for the whole party searched in detail which took 2hrs, then escorted to the gate and was sat with a Homeland Security officer who ensured I boarded.

On return I went through interview processes at the US embassy in the UK and in NYC and ended up with a Redress Number and some paperwork that I have to keep with me whenever I travel (I keep it digitally for ease). I did take some legal advice about what could be construed as illegal searches of my phone and while I would have won and likely been compensated i was advised that it would likely result in never being able to return to the US again which on balance was not worth it at all for me.

Not had a problem since though, but I am concerned of a repeat when I renew my passport and the Redress Number expires - I do currently travel to the US 6-10 times a year.

[Sheepshanks]

I posted the Redress link earlier but deleted it because apparently for ESTA rejections it doesn’t tell you anything beyond ‘you’re ineligible for ESTA, apply for a visa’.

[CraigyMc]

x5tuu said:

hidetheelephants said:

I'd speculate someone with a similar name to you has done something naughty and Homeland Security's computer has had a brain fart.

This.

I had my ESTA revoked mid-atlantic a few years ago.

I was removed from the immigration queue on arrival into JFK and hand / ankle restrained and cuffed to a metal chair in the little JFK prison facility.

I was then subject to full searches of my luggage and digital devices I had on me and interviewed at length over the course of a few hours - all the while my daughter (5 at the time) and partner were left in the baggage hall without any information about what was happening to me. The interviews were massively weighted around someone they beleived was a known associate of mine, connected via employment, someone I had never heard, but who the officers kept saying to me "was a bad man, and has done some very bad things". Lots of questions exclusively about male relatives too. The officers also had a pre-prepared file with a load of internet based stuff on me - quite scary tbh.

I was released eventually and homeland secutiry and the NYPD checked in with me whilst I was in NYC at my hotel.

It was only a 1wk trip and on return I was pulled from exit immigration and boarding card check I pulled out again, had all luggage for the whole party searched in detail which took 2hrs, then escorted to the gate and was sat with a Homeland Security officer who ensured I boarded.

On return I went through interview processes at the US embassy in the UK and in NYC and ended up with a Redress Number and some paperwork that I have to keep with me whenever I travel (I keep it digitally for ease). I did take some legal advice about what could be construed as illegal searches of my phone and while I would have won and likely been compensated i was advised that it would likely result in never being able to return to the US again which on balance was not worth it at all for me.

Not had a problem since though, but I am concerned of a repeat when I renew my passport and the Redress Number expires - I do currently travel to the US 6-10 times a year.

Nothing to add to this other than your right to not be searched (4th Amendment) doesn't apply at ports of entry -- people have fought this and lost.

YMMV of course.

[x5tuu]

CraigyMc said:

Nothing to add to this other than your right to not be searched (4th Amendment) doesn't apply at ports of entry -- people have fought this and lost.

YMMV of course.

Off topic and I apologise and Absolutely correct - it was the access to my phone that was the matter of contention specifically

[Guyr]

Border Guards/Customs in most countries have the highest powers of anyone and frequently far more than the Police have, so in general it's best to do anything they ask IMHO and not the time to try and argue about civil rights.

As for ESTA it's basically a technical platform with a little manual intervention, but the moment you fall out it, it's straight to the Embassy for a full Visa.

[delboyvette]

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for your responses, seems my rejection is not anywhere near as bad as trouble other people have had. Although I was annoyed as just day before at least I found out prior to going to airport etc.


Find it frustrating not knowing as could be a simple case of mistaken identity...... If not, I would really love to know what I have allegedly done that would entail ESTA being cancelled.

Am currently deciding whether to apply for a Visa or not. Might wait until next year now as wouldn't be going until March time anyway or to wait until current passport expires in a couple of years.

[hidetheelephants]

delboyvette said:

Am currently deciding whether to apply for a Visa or not. Might wait until next year now as wouldn't be going until March time anyway or to wait until current passport expires in a couple of years.

Unless things have changed you just carry the expired passport with the visa in it along with your new passport.

[Guyr]

Apply now while you have time, as it takes months to get an appointment at the US Embassy and it lasts 10 years.

You can always renew your passport early at any time, it just wastes a few years, which is only about £8 per year lost. So you could renew your passport now (which takes about a week currently) and then apply for a 10-year Visa which will run for the same period.

Edited by Guyr on Tuesday 15th October 09:39

[pj4d]

Guyr said:

Apply now while you have time, as it takes months to get an appointment at the US Embassy and it lasts 10 years.

You can always renew your passport early at any time, it just wastes a few years, which is only about £8 per year lost. So you could renew your passport now (which takes about a week currently) and then apply for a 10-year Visa which will run for the same period.

Edited by Guyr on Tuesday 15th October 09:39

visas are still valid, just take the old passport.

[rene7]

pj4d
Interesting thread - Wife and I have not been to USA since '911' due to all the horror stories we heard about difficulties entering USA after '911' - prior to 911 we visited USA several times/year for holidays - would our [issued 1980-see pic] existing unlimited visa's still be valid? Last used May 2001??
Would love to do 'route 66', Alaska and Hawaii which we've never done. But the ESTA hassle etc - put's us off attempting it.
TA
rene

[Shooter McGavin]

delboyvette said:

Hi,

Has anyone had this happen and been able to find out what may have caused it.

Maybe they have got wind of some dodgy gear in the lockup acquired off Boycey? Those 'Peckham Spring' days might have come back to haunt you!

Joking apart is there perchance someone with the same name as you who is a criminal?

[TwigtheWonderkid]

rene7 said:

pj4d
Interesting thread - Wife and I have not been to USA since '911' due to all the horror stories we heard about difficulties entering USA after '911' - prior to 911 we visited USA several times/year for holidays - would our [issued 1980-see pic] existing unlimited visa's still be valid? Last used May 2001??
Would love to do 'route 66', Alaska and Hawaii which we've never done. But the ESTA hassle etc - put's us off attempting it.
TA
rene

I wasn't aware of any hassle, and the OP's ESTA nightmare must be a very rare event. I travel to the USA usually once a month, sometimes twice a month, on an ESTA, and never had any hassle. The MPC entry app means it's often quicker getting thru customs into the USA than it is getting into an EU country.

[DeuceDeuce]

delboyvette said:

Hi,

Thanks to everyone for your responses, seems my rejection is not anywhere near as bad as trouble other people have had. Although I was annoyed as just day before at least I found out prior to going to airport etc.


Find it frustrating not knowing as could be a simple case of mistaken identity...... If not, I would really love to know what I have allegedly done that would entail ESTA being cancelled.

Am currently deciding whether to apply for a Visa or not. Might wait until next year now as wouldn't be going until March time anyway or to wait until current passport expires in a couple of years.

If you go for a visa interview they will tell you why your esta was cancelled as questioning you around the reason will form part of the discussion.

I had to do this and the waiting around really wasn’t too bad and the interviewer was reasonable. I do get asked why I have a visa when I enter the US now (although I suspect they already know from their border system) and I tell them and that’s it. Straight through.

Not relevant necessarily but the reason I need a visa: The first time I was stopped at immigration (NYC) was the first time I travelled to the US with my wife. She knew I used to live there and hated that she didn’t really know anything about that part of my life (more mystery, less history…) and when I got detained at the border she went a bit crazy at me ‘what did you do?! What’s going to happen to you?!! What am I meant to do?!!!’.

This was pre esta, early 2000s I think. I’d travelled over the Atlantic countless times before this with no trouble at the border but this time I saw the border chap press a button under his desk and reach to cover his holstered gun. Next thing I knew I was being escorted away and I swear I thought I was going to jail. I ended up being taken to the ‘office’ and after an absolute age I had an interview and learnt I was stopped & detained as I has overstayed by a day in the 90s sometime. The interviewer thought it was ridiculous waste of everyone’s time but said it would happen every time I came to the US unless I got a visa.

I decided I knew better and didn’t bother getting a visa and funnily enough the same thing happened the following year in Miami. You do not want to spend much time in the Miami ‘office’. The interviewer did know I was told to get a visa and did allow me entry but made it clear that next time I wouldn’t be granted entry.

Our next visit was post esta (which was granted so I didn’t bother with a visa) but again I was stopped at the border. My wife was not happy. This was Vegas and the ‘office’ clientele was of a much higher calibre than Miami or NY. Mostly seemed very wealthy but very naughty. Basically Goodfellas. Only time I have seen arrests being made in the office. I can imagine Vegas has its fair share of people misbehaving and leaving and hoping it won’t catch up with them.

Anyway, I finally got around to getting a visa and it’s been trouble free visits since. My wife still doesn’t believe the reason I used to get stopped at the border and eyes that period of my life with even more suspicion.

[GCH]

rene7 said:

pj4d
Interesting thread - Wife and I have not been to USA since '911' due to all the horror stories we heard about difficulties entering USA after '911' - prior to 911 we visited USA several times/year for holidays - would our [issued 1980-see pic] existing unlimited visa's still be valid? Last used May 2001??

A rarity. That is known as a Burroughs Visa, they were all revoked as of April 1 2004....largely because of the creation and implementation of the visa waiver program which they predate, so if you are eligible for that, via an ESTA, then you can travel that way. If not, then apply for a visa.

Interestingly, buried in the detail, the text of the regulation that enacted the change stated that holders should be allowed one entry on it still before voiding. Curious if that would still work!

https://www.aila.org/library/dos-cable-revocation-...
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1997-05-05/...

[OverHonda]

GCH said:

A rarity. That is known as a Burroughs Visa, they were all revoked as of April 1 2004....largely because of the creation and implementation of the visa waiver program which they predate, so if you are eligible for that, via an ESTA, then you can travel that way. If not, then apply for a visa.

Interestingly, buried in the detail, the text of the regulation that enacted the change stated that holders should be allowed one entry on it still before voiding. Curious if that would still work!

https://www.aila.org/library/dos-cable-revocation-...
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1997-05-05/...

I had one of those! From childhood when Dad worked in the States, and brought the family across on assignment from time to time.

Just had to bring the old passport along with me, worked right up until the final time when Immigration wrote "revoked without prejudice" all over it