Would a country's action stop you visiting/holidaying?

[DodgyGeezer]

Just read this morning that a footballer has been sacked and threatened with prosecution for "support of Israel's massacres in Gaza" (in Turkey). This got me to thinking would a country's politics or actions stop you holidaying there?

It seems like a lot of the world's more interesting locations to visit are in stholes which although legal/safe to visit, may have you holding your nose a little.
- Turkey
- China
- Iran
- Saudi
- UAE
- South Africa
- Russia

And so on...

So where is your 'line in the sand'?

Edited by DodgyGeezer on Monday 15th January 13:22

[simon_harris]

Yes.

[RizzoTheRat]

I got back from South Africa a week ago, several people we spoke to complained about thier government being a bunch of corrupt arses they didn't trust further than they could kick them. Everyone I know who's been to Iran said the people they met were lovely. Government policy alone shouldn't dictate what you think of a countries people. How many Brits are/were against the wars in Afghanistan/Iraq/Yemen or Brexit, but would they not recommend foreigners holiday in the UK?

[StevieBee]

Most people become blind to the politics of a country when it comes to grabbing a bit of sun. You don't have to have BBC News 24 on all day to realise places like Turkey or the UAE don't tend to align that well with what we might refer to as Civil Society.

But then scratch a little of the surface of any destination and you'll find reason to reconsider your holiday plans. Even Spain where Bullfighting is still legal and where there's some dubious views towards the Catalans and Gibraltar.

Personally, I'm informed by whether a place interests me or not and whether it's as safe as can be reasonably expected. I'd love to visit Iran but wouldn't do so at the moment, and I have zero interest in visiting Dubai.

I think once you start check-listing a country's political standing and quality of governance, you begin to severely restrict your options.

[Zaichik]

Due to a combination of Brexit and the war in Ukraine, I am no longer allowed to visit Europe on holiday with my family.
EU countries post Brexit make it extremely difficult to obtain visas in the UK (no visa appointments available unless you purchase them from 'agents' on the street) and now most/all are not giving visas to Russians - though they happily take your money before telling you this.

As I am married to a Russian (I am a UK citizen), it means we are not able to visit Europe on holiday and my spouse is unable to travel there on business (even though is employed by a European headquartered company).

[JuanCarlosFandango]

It's a difficult question. On the one hand visiting these places can support and strengthen despotic regimes, on the other hand contact with the outside world and the ability to make a living can help foster the development of democracy and the desire for liberty.

It seems a bit hypocritical to take such a stand about travel while buying the cheap goods and the oil. It also seems like something you would have to either take to an extreme pr draw an arbitrary line somewhere. France nuked Polynesia in 1996!

Belgium has never really stoned for its misdeeds in the Congo, the Irish were a bit too friendly with the Germans so I'll have to fly somewhere on a Boeing or Airbus powered probably by Middle Eastern oil.

But then if I stay at home I can't very well visit the stately home built by the slave trader or the castle built by a colonialist power.

And I'm still supporting our own government with all the flaws and historical wrongs.

So I'd generally come down on the side of visiting and trying to support the small, private businesses and interact with real people as much as possible. Countries are not defined by the government of the day.

[Drawweight]

The defining factor would be my personal safety.

Apart from that I don’t think there are many places I wouldn’t go. I’ve been to Russia and China without a seconds thought.

My pounds are supporting a tourist industry which in turn will support a lot of locals.

Some poor hotel porter or waitress haven’t much of a say in global politics but have to make a living.

[LRDefender]

Difficult question....

When we consider the UK is ignoring UN resolutions regarding our illegal occupation of the Chagos Islands and the way we have treated the Chagossians are we in any position to call out any other country?

And that's before we start considering our arms exports to repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia.

[StevieBee]

LRDefender said:

And that's before we start considering our arms exports to repressive regimes like Saudi Arabia.

Who are also investing (very) heavily to promote tourism.

[Giantt]

Could add UK n USA to that list, continue to occupy other countries, supply arms n support to dictatorships,cause grief all over world but don't hang around to sort the mess out when it doesn't suit?
Currently in Philippines,been all over including south where FCO advise no travel,yet it's been fine

[Pistom]

Lots of people have said they won't be visiting Wales due to the new speed limits so I guess plenty of people have a high moral code.

Personally, I feel there's a lot more to a country than the actions of the leaders and if I end up not visiting them I find myslelf being hypocritical as I live in the UK whose actions for centuries have been dispicable both around the world and to it's own people as well as missing out on experiencing the country, it's nature and its people.

Iran is a case in point. Terrible political issues as we know but great people, great sites.

[purplepolarbear]

I'd visit a country if it was safe for me to do and the following apply:

1) It is democratic or at least a "hybrid regime" here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democr...
2) There is no widespread discrimination by the government or instruments of the government based on nationality, race, religion, sexuality, etc.
3) In general, anyone accused of a significant crime receives a trial that a typical westerner would consider broadly fair.

[havoc]

Drawweight said:

The defining factor would be my personal safety.

For me that would be question #1.

1. 2 though would be whether the regime were real aholes or just 'normally corrupt'

1. 3 would be how the people behaved - if the whole place was a corrupt xenophobic mess, I'd think twice before going, no matter how amazing or how cheap.

As an e.g. half the places in SE Asia - a mix of regimes from benign-ish dictatorships through to alleged democracies, but most running quite high on any corruption scale...yet the cultures are in the main very welcoming. I'd probably put South Africa in the same group. The exception I found was Northern* Vietnam, where they all seemed rather more aloof (racist, arguably) any my wife nearly got sexually assaulted in broad daylight.



* Saigon and Hoi An were rather more typical of that part of SE Asia.

[Kart16]

Zaichik said:

Due to a combination of Brexit and the war in Ukraine, I am no longer allowed to visit Europe on holiday with my family.
EU countries post Brexit make it extremely difficult to obtain visas in the UK (no visa appointments available unless you purchase them from 'agents' on the street) and now most/all are not giving visas to Russians - though they happily take your money before telling you this.

As I am married to a Russian (I am a UK citizen), it means we are not able to visit Europe on holiday and my spouse is unable to travel there on business (even though is employed by a European headquartered company).

And rightly so. Putler has been in power for 25 years and he killed hundreds of thousands of people in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and Ukraine. Not only that, but he also killed a great number of journalists and political opponents.

Another issue that governments haven’t put the necessary importance in the last 70 years is the meddling and subversion that Russia does in other countries. There are books by ex-KGB/FSB spies that detail how russia nowadays command a gigantic network of corrupted western journalists and infiltrated public employees.

I’m sorry for your wife individually, but I’m not sorry for Russians in general. They brought that upon them by having this late 19th century mentality that russia is some sort of a nation that will guide the world. I hope russia goes bankrupt as soon as possible.

“Russia will spread its errors around the world!” - Fatima, 1917.

Edited by Kart16 on Wednesday 17th January 10:13

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Kart16 said:

And rightly so. Putler has been in power for 25 years and he killed hundreds of thousands of people in Chechnya, Georgia, Syria, and Ukraine. Not only that, but he also killed a great number of journalists and political opponents.

Another issue that governments haven’t put the necessary importance in the last 70 years is the meddling and subversion that Russia does in other countries. There are books by ex-KGB/FSB spies that detail how russia nowadays command a gigantic network of corrupted western journalists and infiltrated public employees.

I’m sorry for your wife individually, but I’m not sorry for Russians in general. They brought that upon them by having this late 19th century mentality that russia is some sort of a nation that will guide the world. I hope russia goes bankrupt as soon as possible.

“Russia will spread its errors around the world!” - Fatima, 1917.

Edited by Kart16 on Wednesday 17th January 10:13

Careful taking such a hard stance. Our own history isn't exactly dissimilar.

[fourstardan]

DodgyGeezer said:

Just read this morning that a footballer has been sacked and threatened with prosecution for "support of Israel's massacres in Gaza" (in Turkey). This got me to thinking would a country's politics or actions stop you holidaying there?

It seems like a lot of the world's more interesting locations to visit are in stholes which although legal/safe to visit, may have you holding your nose a little.
- Turkey
- China
- Iran
- Saudi
- UAE
- South Africa
- Russia

And so on...

So where is your 'line in the sand'?

Edited by DodgyGeezer on Monday 15th January 13:22

I think desire to go somewhere (oh it's got lovely sights, wonders of the world etc) is different to being pulled in by the mystique of these countries.

Watch a Palin doc where he goes to say North Korea and I'd book a seat on the next plane if I could, however in reality you'd never go as your experience won't be the same.