Emigration due to living costs
Discussion
I was just idly reading the energy prices thread and noticing the eye-watering costs that some households are paying now just to heat their place to a modest temperature. It got me thinking : what would be your line in the sand for energy costs before saying 'enough is enough' and emigrating to a warmer climate? Is anyone facing this predicament or getting close to it? With (iirc) 2 further "cap" increases planned for this year surely there's only so much "work harder" you can do before the costs become unaffordable and something needs to give?
On a personal level I received my gas bill for my UK rental a couple of days ago and was quite shocked by the amount which wasn't far off being one-third of the price of the rent itself! Thankfully I can comfortably afford it, but the cost is beyond my psychological barrier of what I feel is a fair price (rightly or wrongly). I spend quite a bit of time in Yucatán, Mexico already, where it's somewhere between 20-35C all year round so energy costs are peanuts even after factoring in the AC.
As I don't have any major ties to the UK anymore and I can work from anywhere with an internet connection, I'm having thoughts about shipping out of the UK permanently and have my money go a lot further than spunking a ton of it just to stay warm. Not necessarily Mexico, but there are plenty of places in Latin America, Southern Europe and SE Asia where it's min 20C all year round and perfectly liveable if you're prepared to adjust your expectations and adapt to the local customs/learn the lingo.
Anyone here already left the shores due to cost of living or looking at doing so?
On a personal level I received my gas bill for my UK rental a couple of days ago and was quite shocked by the amount which wasn't far off being one-third of the price of the rent itself! Thankfully I can comfortably afford it, but the cost is beyond my psychological barrier of what I feel is a fair price (rightly or wrongly). I spend quite a bit of time in Yucatán, Mexico already, where it's somewhere between 20-35C all year round so energy costs are peanuts even after factoring in the AC.
As I don't have any major ties to the UK anymore and I can work from anywhere with an internet connection, I'm having thoughts about shipping out of the UK permanently and have my money go a lot further than spunking a ton of it just to stay warm. Not necessarily Mexico, but there are plenty of places in Latin America, Southern Europe and SE Asia where it's min 20C all year round and perfectly liveable if you're prepared to adjust your expectations and adapt to the local customs/learn the lingo.
Anyone here already left the shores due to cost of living or looking at doing so?
Having travelled a bit, I can say some countries dont have the 'squeeze' on energy prices that we do - im thinking Canada, Nordics, maybe Poland.
That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
BUT - energy prices is a small factor in deciding to move to another country - theres also climate, people, jobs, nearby family, culture, amenities, poligitcal situation.
Dont just move for one reason
That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
BUT - energy prices is a small factor in deciding to move to another country - theres also climate, people, jobs, nearby family, culture, amenities, poligitcal situation.
Dont just move for one reason
r3g said:
I was just idly reading the energy prices thread and noticing the eye-watering costs that some households are paying now just to heat their place to a modest temperature. It got me thinking : what would be your line in the sand for energy costs before saying 'enough is enough' and emigrating to a warmer climate? Is anyone facing this predicament or getting close to it? With (iirc) 2 further "cap" increases planned for this year surely there's only so much "work harder" you can do before the costs become unaffordable and something needs to give?
On a personal level I received my gas bill for my UK rental a couple of days ago and was quite shocked by the amount which wasn't far off being one-third of the price of the rent itself! Thankfully I can comfortably afford it, but the cost is beyond my psychological barrier of what I feel is a fair price (rightly or wrongly). I spend quite a bit of time in Yucatán, Mexico already, where it's somewhere between 20-35C all year round so energy costs are peanuts even after factoring in the AC.
As I don't have any major ties to the UK anymore and I can work from anywhere with an internet connection, I'm having thoughts about shipping out of the UK permanently and have my money go a lot further than spunking a ton of it just to stay warm. Not necessarily Mexico, but there are plenty of places in Latin America, Southern Europe and SE Asia where it's min 20C all year round and perfectly liveable if you're prepared to adjust your expectations and adapt to the local customs/learn the lingo.
Anyone here already left the shores due to cost of living or looking at doing so?
If you can comfortably afford it then the cost of heating shouldn't be an important factor in whether you move or not.On a personal level I received my gas bill for my UK rental a couple of days ago and was quite shocked by the amount which wasn't far off being one-third of the price of the rent itself! Thankfully I can comfortably afford it, but the cost is beyond my psychological barrier of what I feel is a fair price (rightly or wrongly). I spend quite a bit of time in Yucatán, Mexico already, where it's somewhere between 20-35C all year round so energy costs are peanuts even after factoring in the AC.
As I don't have any major ties to the UK anymore and I can work from anywhere with an internet connection, I'm having thoughts about shipping out of the UK permanently and have my money go a lot further than spunking a ton of it just to stay warm. Not necessarily Mexico, but there are plenty of places in Latin America, Southern Europe and SE Asia where it's min 20C all year round and perfectly liveable if you're prepared to adjust your expectations and adapt to the local customs/learn the lingo.
Anyone here already left the shores due to cost of living or looking at doing so?
That being said if i was in your position I'd definitely move. I'd probably choose 3 or 4 places, spend 6 months in each to see how much I liked it, before making a more permanent decision.
There's quite a few 'digital nomad' type visa schemes for remote workers both long and short term, which might be worth looking into in order to help legalise any working rights or tax formalities required in another country.
It's not just the living costs either but just better work/life balance, weather, healthcare if called upon, etc.
Tax has to be a major incentive as well.
For me personally I would look at Southern Europe, anyone offering the right sort of tax/residency terms. I know Portugal, Spain, Malta, Greece, Croatia have details of some schemes and I work with a bloke personally who has taken up residence in Greece but is also married to one which makes it somewhat easier to integrate. I'm biased because my wife is Serbian but having travelled the whole Balkans area quite a lot I'd be happy anywhere in SE Europe and probably any of the previously mentioned as well.
It's not just the living costs either but just better work/life balance, weather, healthcare if called upon, etc.
Tax has to be a major incentive as well.
For me personally I would look at Southern Europe, anyone offering the right sort of tax/residency terms. I know Portugal, Spain, Malta, Greece, Croatia have details of some schemes and I work with a bloke personally who has taken up residence in Greece but is also married to one which makes it somewhat easier to integrate. I'm biased because my wife is Serbian but having travelled the whole Balkans area quite a lot I'd be happy anywhere in SE Europe and probably any of the previously mentioned as well.
Edited by theboss on Sunday 1st January 17:58
KAgantua said:
Having travelled a bit, I can say some countries dont have the 'squeeze' on energy prices that we do - im thinking Canada, Nordics, maybe Poland.
That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
Not true here in BC, Canada. Energy prices have jumped up loads in the last 12-18 months. I personally saw a 70% increase in gas/propane pricing where I live in BC. That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
PositronicRay said:
Try it, you can always move again.
I think I've done a thread fail 
. I was merely adding my own position as the back-story for what triggered the 'light bulb' realisation moment of how much it now costs to heat your place here, then I saw the energy price thread where some eye-watering costs are being posted and so attempted to spark a discussion to see if anyone else had moved out or was considering moving out to somewhere with a lower cost of living and warmer climate.Obviously a much more viable option for the so-called digital nomad types with no real to the UK, but for the family people, if the energy costs triple or quadruple by this time next year where do you draw the line and say enough is enough and look at moving out to cheaper locations and/or warmer climates? Maybe it would just be too much upheavel and hassle for some so all they can do is just turn off the heating and freeze or stick your head in the sand and hope the government comes along with more hand-outs?
PurpleTurtle said:
Surely all of this is complicated by the need for a visa?
You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
True enough, but in several countries it's nothing more than a paperwork exercise going from tourist visa > temp resi visa > perm resi visa over a few years. In many countries you can just buy a perm resi visa outright if you show the required funds in your bank account.You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
theboss said:
having travelled the whole Balkans area quite a lot I'd be happy anywhere in SE Europe and probably any of the previously mentioned as well.
I'm spending a lot of time on a project in Albania at the moment. Of all the Balkan states I think this has the potential to develop very nicely over the next ten years or so. I've met a couple of Brits who've set up shop in Tirana and love it. A good mate settled in Sofia back in 2004. We thought he was mad but has turned out very nicely for him. His apartment in the city centre that he paid €50k for is now worth something like €800k. He's a consultant working around the world earning 'northern European' day rates so has benefited from a standard of living he'd get nowhere close to in the UK. The one downside is that he had to put his two kids through private education as Bulgarian state schools were appalling. This cost him a fortune. Same with healthcare. He pays for private health cover because the state health system is equally lacking.
And this is the balance you have to consider. Whilst some places offer a better cost of living than the UK, you have to think about the 'value' aspect to that cost. From what I can see, despite all that's wrong with the NHS, energy costs and the like, the UK still offers the best value cost of living - or at least to levels no better or worse than any other nation you care to think of.
Rich_AR said:
KAgantua said:
Having travelled a bit, I can say some countries dont have the 'squeeze' on energy prices that we do - im thinking Canada, Nordics, maybe Poland.
That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
Not true here in BC, Canada. Energy prices have jumped up loads in the last 12-18 months. I personally saw a 70% increase in gas/propane pricing where I live in BC. That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
What is average proportion of energy costs to other outgoings may I ask?
I'd be off to a warmer country in a heartbeat if it was viable, more because I simply prefer being warm than due to energy costs. The issue appears to be that you can't simply move abroad to "work from home" for a UK employer without some serious complications which most UK employers won't take on. The only solution would be if there was some British territory overseas which would still be classed as being in the UK if I were to move there. I changed my career entirely last year so maybe when I'm fully up to speed I can think about emigrating more seriously as it's a very in demand sector that I'm in now.
KAgantua said:
Rich_AR said:
KAgantua said:
Having travelled a bit, I can say some countries dont have the 'squeeze' on energy prices that we do - im thinking Canada, Nordics, maybe Poland.
That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
Not true here in BC, Canada. Energy prices have jumped up loads in the last 12-18 months. I personally saw a 70% increase in gas/propane pricing where I live in BC. That is to say, people just run the heating all day every day, even with windows open, and dont seem to care.
What is average proportion of energy costs to other outgoings may I ask?
Gas bill was circa 500 quid last month. Electric approx 600 quid, but I have a mix of propane and electric heating in the house (plus gas hob and work from home). Trying to get a wood pellet burner approved, but the local council/municipality aren't in favour yet. It would massively reduce my energy costs.
r3g said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Surely all of this is complicated by the need for a visa?
You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
True enough, but in several countries it's nothing more than a paperwork exercise going from tourist visa > temp resi visa > perm resi visa over a few years. In many countries you can just buy a perm resi visa outright if you show the required funds in your bank account.You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
Edited by Rich_AR on Monday 2nd January 18:02
PurpleTurtle said:
Surely all of this is complicated by the need for a visa?
You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
Of course you can.You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/22/border-pat...
Thankyou4calling said:
I think you’ll find it’s far from easy to move to another country and start working (or retire)
Many people “Know someone” who did it.
The reality is VERY different.
Agree, I've moved to 4 different countries/4 different continents in the last 15 years. None of which was that simple. Many people “Know someone” who did it.
The reality is VERY different.
These new nomad visas have made things a lot easier for sure, but you really need to be in the right situation with your job/company or own business. A friend of mine is winging it over in Thailand on a nomad visa (5 year one), still working for a UK company, who have no idea he's not even in the UK. His plan is to get the Thai retirement visa in a few years.
NMNeil said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Surely all of this is complicated by the need for a visa?
You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
Of course you can.You can’t just up sticks and go and live in another country (semi) permanently without going through that whole process, no?
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/22/border-pat...
Edited by Rich_AR on Monday 2nd January 18:20
Something I have looked into having recently retired.
Thailand is the easiest for sure, IMHO.
They offer 5 or 10 year "elite" visas regardless of your age or financial standing and they are about £3k a year (min 5 year buy in).
Other than buying the 5 years in advance there is nothing else you have to do.
If you are over 50 then you can use the retirement visa which basically costs next to nothing (about £100 a year) and you need minimal proof of funds too (15k in the bank).
The retirement visas are more complex though and you have to do a lot more stuff on a more regular basis. Amazing value though.
COL is also very good, $1000-$1500/mo is more than enough for base living costs in a big city. $2000 a month would get you a very, very nice lifestyle.
I think Mexico has similar to Thailand but I think there is an income requirement of $2500/mo where as in Thailand you only need to pay £3k a year so dont actually need any income or prove any bank balance etc. COL is higher too, probably still half of the UK but the big cities can still be pretty expensive.
Most of the nomad visas require steady employment, which often is the issue for retired people. Bermuda offer a fairly open system but you still need an income. Currently only valid for a year too which is not much use. Barbados has similar IIRC. Property in both are expensive and so are daily consumables due to location.
For me, Spain would be perfect but Brexit messed that up. I have read they are looking at doing some sort of nomad visa system but no doubt it will be similar to Portugal so there will be a hefty income requirement. Cheap ish, modern ish, climate with 3 seasons, short trip home and ok medical facilities etc.
Thailand also looks great but the tropical climate and wildlife non stop round the clock would just be too full on for me. You are basically living in a jungle city. Plus its 12+ hours from home. Shame really. Although its still on my radar...
New Zealand is the perfect place IMHO, but expensive and virtually no options for entry for a retiree unless you have $$$,$$$+.
Just my 2ps worth.
Thailand is the easiest for sure, IMHO.
They offer 5 or 10 year "elite" visas regardless of your age or financial standing and they are about £3k a year (min 5 year buy in).
Other than buying the 5 years in advance there is nothing else you have to do.
If you are over 50 then you can use the retirement visa which basically costs next to nothing (about £100 a year) and you need minimal proof of funds too (15k in the bank).
The retirement visas are more complex though and you have to do a lot more stuff on a more regular basis. Amazing value though.
COL is also very good, $1000-$1500/mo is more than enough for base living costs in a big city. $2000 a month would get you a very, very nice lifestyle.
I think Mexico has similar to Thailand but I think there is an income requirement of $2500/mo where as in Thailand you only need to pay £3k a year so dont actually need any income or prove any bank balance etc. COL is higher too, probably still half of the UK but the big cities can still be pretty expensive.
Most of the nomad visas require steady employment, which often is the issue for retired people. Bermuda offer a fairly open system but you still need an income. Currently only valid for a year too which is not much use. Barbados has similar IIRC. Property in both are expensive and so are daily consumables due to location.
For me, Spain would be perfect but Brexit messed that up. I have read they are looking at doing some sort of nomad visa system but no doubt it will be similar to Portugal so there will be a hefty income requirement. Cheap ish, modern ish, climate with 3 seasons, short trip home and ok medical facilities etc.
Thailand also looks great but the tropical climate and wildlife non stop round the clock would just be too full on for me. You are basically living in a jungle city. Plus its 12+ hours from home. Shame really. Although its still on my radar...
New Zealand is the perfect place IMHO, but expensive and virtually no options for entry for a retiree unless you have $$$,$$$+.
Just my 2ps worth.
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