Becoming a fluent French speaker
Discussion
Not quite holidays or travel as such but seems the most appropriate sub-forum.
My 15 year old son has his heart set on going to university in France - he loves the language and wants to become fluent. I know that some French university courses are partly or wholly taught in English, but he wants to study computer science in French.
He has an aptitude for French but is still a long way off from being able to cope with a university level course taught in French. We have got three years (or maybe four if he takes a gap year) before he would start.
The obvious option is for him to study hard in the UK and get his A level French - but that is still going to be nowhere near the level of proficiency he will need. He would be happy to do a summer school or similar in France during the school holidays, but they are generally expensive so it would only be a relatively short time spent there.
The other option - which may be best - would be to take a gap year after A level and to work/live in France for a year (subject to visa requirements etc).
What I would be interested in are tips/suggestions for other things he can do to accelerate his learning - he is keen and quite focused but I am also conscious that he has got GCSEs this year and wil then be doing 3 quite challenging A levels and therefore needs to get the balance right.
We will be helping as far as possible - eg holidays and trips to France so he can practice speaking to native French speakers but this will be relatively minimal in the grand scale of things.
My 15 year old son has his heart set on going to university in France - he loves the language and wants to become fluent. I know that some French university courses are partly or wholly taught in English, but he wants to study computer science in French.
He has an aptitude for French but is still a long way off from being able to cope with a university level course taught in French. We have got three years (or maybe four if he takes a gap year) before he would start.
The obvious option is for him to study hard in the UK and get his A level French - but that is still going to be nowhere near the level of proficiency he will need. He would be happy to do a summer school or similar in France during the school holidays, but they are generally expensive so it would only be a relatively short time spent there.
The other option - which may be best - would be to take a gap year after A level and to work/live in France for a year (subject to visa requirements etc).
What I would be interested in are tips/suggestions for other things he can do to accelerate his learning - he is keen and quite focused but I am also conscious that he has got GCSEs this year and wil then be doing 3 quite challenging A levels and therefore needs to get the balance right.
We will be helping as far as possible - eg holidays and trips to France so he can practice speaking to native French speakers but this will be relatively minimal in the grand scale of things.
i learned french pretty well over three summers as a french exchange student. it’s amazing how much french a teenage boy can learn when there are teenage french girls he wants to talk to.
best: immersion and necessity… …if not: same age french speaker(s) in your local town/ online group, french tv/movies + subtitles
best: immersion and necessity… …if not: same age french speaker(s) in your local town/ online group, french tv/movies + subtitles
A few suggestions:
Try some courses offered by Alliance Française? They have locations in several cities:
https://www.alliancefrancaise.london/Scheduled-Fre...
Use Duolingo?
Join a www.meetup.com group for French speakers and go along to that?
Try some courses offered by Alliance Française? They have locations in several cities:
https://www.alliancefrancaise.london/Scheduled-Fre...
Use Duolingo?
Join a www.meetup.com group for French speakers and go along to that?
Some great ideas there - thank you
YouTube is an obvious one as he spends time watching that already - so I will encourage him to watch as much in French as possible.
A French exchange may be possible through school - it should have happened last year but Covid stopped it
We have got a couple of French friends - but difficult for a 15 year old to want to spend much time speaking to someone 30 years older than him
YouTube is an obvious one as he spends time watching that already - so I will encourage him to watch as much in French as possible.
A French exchange may be possible through school - it should have happened last year but Covid stopped it
We have got a couple of French friends - but difficult for a 15 year old to want to spend much time speaking to someone 30 years older than him
Practice is the only way. I did a weekly 'night school' class for six months and even that was plenty to get my head around tenses etc (I don't even know how grammar works in English) but as soon as that stopped I forgot it all really quickly.
I believe there are plenty of online services where you can do live sessions with a French speaker to have conversations over Zoom etc.
The plan to spend a gap year in France seems the way to go - although what's the deal with students and Brexit these days? (Likewise, once he has done his French degree is he going to be allowed to actually live and work somewhere French speaking....)
I believe there are plenty of online services where you can do live sessions with a French speaker to have conversations over Zoom etc.
The plan to spend a gap year in France seems the way to go - although what's the deal with students and Brexit these days? (Likewise, once he has done his French degree is he going to be allowed to actually live and work somewhere French speaking....)
Doofus said:
Read novels and magazines in French. Watch television in French (with English subtitles).
I've tried this for Italian. You can get a browser app that puts subtitles in the language of your choice on Youtube content, but I've yet to work out how to get live news with subtitles.TNJ said:
The obvious option is for him to study hard in the UK and get his A level French
Check what's involved. IME (35 years ago admittedly...) French A level is more like a French literature course. I did learn more French, but writing essays in French on existentialist literature isn't particularly useful in the real world.French exchanges were great, you may find your area has some form of cultural exchange with a twinned town so you can get contacts.
What about Meetup to find a French group locally? There will almost certainly be one or start one?
Meet weekly and talk french. Will help for sure.
Unfortunately working in France on a gap year won't be easy now - if he only has a UK passport? Legally it is very difficult after Brexit.
Meet weekly and talk french. Will help for sure.
Unfortunately working in France on a gap year won't be easy now - if he only has a UK passport? Legally it is very difficult after Brexit.
Edited by NorthDave on Tuesday 20th September 08:09
Liike Bill Above, my French A level was decades ago & largely consisted of literature. The empahsis on learning the nuts & bolts of the language ended at 16.
Tio become a fluent speaker, you have to speak, so there is no substitution for being in France, the deep end will bring your lad on at speed & better than anything else. But there will be other options. He'll be able to find local French/Francophone groups/societies etc. via Facebook etc. and his teachers will definitely be able to hook him up with those. During my time, we had a French trainee teacher working at our shool who was happy to take us down the pub on the condition we spoke French exclusively & that was a massive boost, if a bit iffy on a legal level, being 17 at the time.
Summers working at the likes of Eurocamp have been a well worn path for decades. There are always things you can do if you can be a little inventive with it. Bon chance hein!?!
Tio become a fluent speaker, you have to speak, so there is no substitution for being in France, the deep end will bring your lad on at speed & better than anything else. But there will be other options. He'll be able to find local French/Francophone groups/societies etc. via Facebook etc. and his teachers will definitely be able to hook him up with those. During my time, we had a French trainee teacher working at our shool who was happy to take us down the pub on the condition we spoke French exclusively & that was a massive boost, if a bit iffy on a legal level, being 17 at the time.
Summers working at the likes of Eurocamp have been a well worn path for decades. There are always things you can do if you can be a little inventive with it. Bon chance hein!?!
My eldest is studying maths and French in the uk.
She did a six month au pair job in a French family after a levels. No English speakers so in at the deep end and came out speaking French pretty well at a conversational level. Best way to learn is living i france and having to speak French every day, and no substitute in my mind
Then a year at uni in france for 3rd year and speaks well enough to not sound like a Brit to a native French speaker. Had a fantastic time in france.
However her observations were;
1. Regional french unis aren’t as good as uk ones, on average you’ll get better teaching in the uk ( some in Paris are good, but many distinctly average).
2. Starting at uni in france was really hard, there is specialist vocabulary in a degree that you just don’t learn in every day conversation, it took her 6 weeks just to get the vocab for maths topics she already knew, and hence was behind vs the native speakers who’ve learnt that all through high school. Even though she’s on for a good uni grade, her exam results for maths taken in france were not impressive.
3. In your subject, many French lecturers don’t speak particularly good English, so the option to get extra help is harder and they tend not to provide handouts and videos of lectures as the uk does.
4. Uni life in france is very different too, many students live at home, and it feels more like an extension of college rather than a distinct experience as it is in the uk.
However It’s worth thinking about what they want to achieve. If it’s a good degree and the ability to speak French to a good level, then would recommended thinking hard about doing a uk course, with a year at uni in france for the 3rd year. Done this way there is an expectation that academic results taken in france are about experience rather than marks plus there is some support from uk home uni. You can then focus on learning the language and having a good time.
But definitely spend a significant part of a gap year in france with a French family before uni.
She did a six month au pair job in a French family after a levels. No English speakers so in at the deep end and came out speaking French pretty well at a conversational level. Best way to learn is living i france and having to speak French every day, and no substitute in my mind
Then a year at uni in france for 3rd year and speaks well enough to not sound like a Brit to a native French speaker. Had a fantastic time in france.
However her observations were;
1. Regional french unis aren’t as good as uk ones, on average you’ll get better teaching in the uk ( some in Paris are good, but many distinctly average).
2. Starting at uni in france was really hard, there is specialist vocabulary in a degree that you just don’t learn in every day conversation, it took her 6 weeks just to get the vocab for maths topics she already knew, and hence was behind vs the native speakers who’ve learnt that all through high school. Even though she’s on for a good uni grade, her exam results for maths taken in france were not impressive.
3. In your subject, many French lecturers don’t speak particularly good English, so the option to get extra help is harder and they tend not to provide handouts and videos of lectures as the uk does.
4. Uni life in france is very different too, many students live at home, and it feels more like an extension of college rather than a distinct experience as it is in the uk.
However It’s worth thinking about what they want to achieve. If it’s a good degree and the ability to speak French to a good level, then would recommended thinking hard about doing a uk course, with a year at uni in france for the 3rd year. Done this way there is an expectation that academic results taken in france are about experience rather than marks plus there is some support from uk home uni. You can then focus on learning the language and having a good time.
But definitely spend a significant part of a gap year in france with a French family before uni.
At age 15, uni is still a few years away.
I don't know how easy it is to simply "go to university in France", but a few years ago the ERASMUS scheme (going to France for a 3rd year of uni) was a good option. I gather it's being replaced by the "Turing" programme, but there is more to read here: https://erasmusplus.org.uk/key-changes-to-erasmus-...
I agree with total immersion in the meantime - my French improved dramatically when spending time there with locals.
I don't know how easy it is to simply "go to university in France", but a few years ago the ERASMUS scheme (going to France for a 3rd year of uni) was a good option. I gather it's being replaced by the "Turing" programme, but there is more to read here: https://erasmusplus.org.uk/key-changes-to-erasmus-...
I agree with total immersion in the meantime - my French improved dramatically when spending time there with locals.
biggiles said:
At age 15, uni is still a few years away.
I don't know how easy it is to simply "go to university in France", but a few years ago the ERASMUS scheme (going to France for a 3rd year of uni) was a good option. I gather it's being replaced by the "Turing" programme, but there is more to read here: https://erasmusplus.org.uk/key-changes-to-erasmus-...
I agree with total immersion in the meantime - my French improved dramatically when spending time there with locals.
That’s the scheme my daughter is on .I don't know how easy it is to simply "go to university in France", but a few years ago the ERASMUS scheme (going to France for a 3rd year of uni) was a good option. I gather it's being replaced by the "Turing" programme, but there is more to read here: https://erasmusplus.org.uk/key-changes-to-erasmus-...
I agree with total immersion in the meantime - my French improved dramatically when spending time there with locals.
Uncle boshy said:
My eldest is studying maths and French in the uk.
She did a six month au pair job in a French family after a levels. No English speakers so in at the deep end and came out speaking French pretty well at a conversational level. Best way to learn is living i france and having to speak French every day, and no substitute in my mind
Then a year at uni in france for 3rd year and speaks well enough to not sound like a Brit to a native French speaker. Had a fantastic time in france.
However her observations were;
1. Regional french unis aren’t as good as uk ones, on average you’ll get better teaching in the uk ( some in Paris are good, but many distinctly average).
2. Starting at uni in france was really hard, there is specialist vocabulary in a degree that you just don’t learn in every day conversation, it took her 6 weeks just to get the vocab for maths topics she already knew, and hence was behind vs the native speakers who’ve learnt that all through high school. Even though she’s on for a good uni grade, her exam results for maths taken in france were not impressive.
3. In your subject, many French lecturers don’t speak particularly good English, so the option to get extra help is harder and they tend not to provide handouts and videos of lectures as the uk does.
4. Uni life in france is very different too, many students live at home, and it feels more like an extension of college rather than a distinct experience as it is in the uk.
However It’s worth thinking about what they want to achieve. If it’s a good degree and the ability to speak French to a good level, then would recommended thinking hard about doing a uk course, with a year at uni in france for the 3rd year. Done this way there is an expectation that academic results taken in france are about experience rather than marks plus there is some support from uk home uni. You can then focus on learning the language and having a good time.
But definitely spend a significant part of a gap year in france with a French family before uni.
Sounds like my daughter . Mine is actually au pairing through her year , teaching the children English . Other than that , all her new friends have agreed only to talk French , even though some are from Italy , uk etc She did a six month au pair job in a French family after a levels. No English speakers so in at the deep end and came out speaking French pretty well at a conversational level. Best way to learn is living i france and having to speak French every day, and no substitute in my mind
Then a year at uni in france for 3rd year and speaks well enough to not sound like a Brit to a native French speaker. Had a fantastic time in france.
However her observations were;
1. Regional french unis aren’t as good as uk ones, on average you’ll get better teaching in the uk ( some in Paris are good, but many distinctly average).
2. Starting at uni in france was really hard, there is specialist vocabulary in a degree that you just don’t learn in every day conversation, it took her 6 weeks just to get the vocab for maths topics she already knew, and hence was behind vs the native speakers who’ve learnt that all through high school. Even though she’s on for a good uni grade, her exam results for maths taken in france were not impressive.
3. In your subject, many French lecturers don’t speak particularly good English, so the option to get extra help is harder and they tend not to provide handouts and videos of lectures as the uk does.
4. Uni life in france is very different too, many students live at home, and it feels more like an extension of college rather than a distinct experience as it is in the uk.
However It’s worth thinking about what they want to achieve. If it’s a good degree and the ability to speak French to a good level, then would recommended thinking hard about doing a uk course, with a year at uni in france for the 3rd year. Done this way there is an expectation that academic results taken in france are about experience rather than marks plus there is some support from uk home uni. You can then focus on learning the language and having a good time.
But definitely spend a significant part of a gap year in france with a French family before uni.
Minor thing but pertinent. Learning French at school in the UK teaches you to speak in a pretty starchy & formal manner. There has to be a common standard for a curriculum, so I mention this not as a criticism but an observation, You do end up speaking quite 1950's Delighted to meet you, How do you do?
Languages are very much an evolving thing & it was only when I spent siginficant periods in France that I actually learned to speak French not only to a good standard but also, more importantly like the French with a fair bit of ribbing along the way from my French pals. Idioms mark you out as a native speaker & I would advise anyone who wants to truly learn a language to put themselves in a position where they can drink those in. In short, get to France!
Languages are very much an evolving thing & it was only when I spent siginficant periods in France that I actually learned to speak French not only to a good standard but also, more importantly like the French with a fair bit of ribbing along the way from my French pals. Idioms mark you out as a native speaker & I would advise anyone who wants to truly learn a language to put themselves in a position where they can drink those in. In short, get to France!
Unlike several contributors here, my French A level (37 years ago!) was based on French society - learning about the education system, French regions, contemporary society etc. It was a key factor in me moving from a public school (literature-based French A level) to an enlightened state school.
I also took advantage of a well structured exchange program (Aix les Bains, if anyone is interested)
The A level fired my interest in France & the French language. I am far from fluent but can hold my own in a conversations regarding most topics. If necessary I have built on my A level to cope with unlikely situations such as dealing with undertakers (my father died in rural France), plod (after my A level, my folks bought a place) when 2 months ago we had a break in.
The advice about picking up French car magazines is great because subconsciously you pick up grammar & vocab as tests are similar to English language magazines (but any French car present is guaranteed to win group tests...). Local newspapers add variety - you learn a different level of vocab.
On family holidays, try to visit places off the beaten track without a big expat community so that you are forced to speak French when out & about, one reason why I love the Jura.
On signs at attractions such as chateaux try to read the several paragraphs of French rather than the few words of English - double bonus, you get more of a feel of what you are visiting & pick up more lingo.
As you can gather, thanks to a wise choice in A Level I have developed a passion for France & speaking French (recently we had a French lady working in my local & it was great fun and slightly incongruous ordering a pint & talking b0!!0ck$ in French in the west of England!)
I also took advantage of a well structured exchange program (Aix les Bains, if anyone is interested)
The A level fired my interest in France & the French language. I am far from fluent but can hold my own in a conversations regarding most topics. If necessary I have built on my A level to cope with unlikely situations such as dealing with undertakers (my father died in rural France), plod (after my A level, my folks bought a place) when 2 months ago we had a break in.
The advice about picking up French car magazines is great because subconsciously you pick up grammar & vocab as tests are similar to English language magazines (but any French car present is guaranteed to win group tests...). Local newspapers add variety - you learn a different level of vocab.
On family holidays, try to visit places off the beaten track without a big expat community so that you are forced to speak French when out & about, one reason why I love the Jura.
On signs at attractions such as chateaux try to read the several paragraphs of French rather than the few words of English - double bonus, you get more of a feel of what you are visiting & pick up more lingo.
As you can gather, thanks to a wise choice in A Level I have developed a passion for France & speaking French (recently we had a French lady working in my local & it was great fun and slightly incongruous ordering a pint & talking b0!!0ck$ in French in the west of England!)
My question - will reading Dumas at A-level help him in a French science oriented Uni?
Streaming French radio might be a source of understanding how French is currently being spoken amongst his peer group. Its different.
My friend’s Grand-daughter clearly has a gift, she learnt both English and Japanese just by streaming television. Her English is very Eva Green. His grandson wants to be an entrepreneur, so they teach him how to pay his taxes. Fortunately, he has some nouse and is making money, because the Euro and dollar are near parity, but cannot see any risk with downsides,
My big concern would be the quality of his learning. French websites are poor when compared to most other Western sites, their security seems non-existant. Big sites are constantly being hacked. Last week, both EDF and ANTS were down on the day that I needed them. If he wanted to be a guitar player in a band in France, they would spend years teaching him a keyboard, If a French kid wanted to improve his English, he would spend months on verbs etc.
France is a great place for young people if he just wants to cruise through 3-fabulous years. If he wants to climb to the top of his game, I guess that Caltech would be a better option to develop his skill. He could then go to France with a skill that they desperately need.
The top bosses will be happy to speak to him in English. They all went to the same Grandes Écoles.
Streaming French radio might be a source of understanding how French is currently being spoken amongst his peer group. Its different.
My friend’s Grand-daughter clearly has a gift, she learnt both English and Japanese just by streaming television. Her English is very Eva Green. His grandson wants to be an entrepreneur, so they teach him how to pay his taxes. Fortunately, he has some nouse and is making money, because the Euro and dollar are near parity, but cannot see any risk with downsides,
My big concern would be the quality of his learning. French websites are poor when compared to most other Western sites, their security seems non-existant. Big sites are constantly being hacked. Last week, both EDF and ANTS were down on the day that I needed them. If he wanted to be a guitar player in a band in France, they would spend years teaching him a keyboard, If a French kid wanted to improve his English, he would spend months on verbs etc.
France is a great place for young people if he just wants to cruise through 3-fabulous years. If he wants to climb to the top of his game, I guess that Caltech would be a better option to develop his skill. He could then go to France with a skill that they desperately need.
The top bosses will be happy to speak to him in English. They all went to the same Grandes Écoles.
Thanks to everyone who has replied to the original post - there is a lot of information to digest but fortunately we have got time to evaluate all the pros and cons.
My immediate thoughts when he raised this was to do a UK degree but with a year spent in France. His outlook is that he wants to experience life in France and a year is not enough - but he does accept that he needs to really research and understand the quality of the education he will get.
I suspect he will take a gap year and will try to work in France for st least half of it (visa permitting) - that will hopefully help him make a more informed decision. In the meantime, he will need to demonstrate his commitment to learning the language - we have discussed some of the ideas above (Meetup groups, exchange trips, spending as much holiday time in France as possible, magazines and YouTube etc).
My immediate thoughts when he raised this was to do a UK degree but with a year spent in France. His outlook is that he wants to experience life in France and a year is not enough - but he does accept that he needs to really research and understand the quality of the education he will get.
I suspect he will take a gap year and will try to work in France for st least half of it (visa permitting) - that will hopefully help him make a more informed decision. In the meantime, he will need to demonstrate his commitment to learning the language - we have discussed some of the ideas above (Meetup groups, exchange trips, spending as much holiday time in France as possible, magazines and YouTube etc).
Gassing Station | Holidays & Travel | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff