holiday flights changed by 12 hrs and different airport

[TheDrownedApe]

Just after some advice, i may be short of important info

Elderly parents are off to Lake Como on Wed. Recently (not sure on when exactly) their package holiday flights were cancelled by the airline (ryanair) and the agent replaced them with a Jet2 flight. The flight out is 12 hrs earlier (0230 v 1430) and to a different arrival airport that is 2 hrs further away.

They have complained to the agent who was stated "it's allowed" etc.

I've had a look on the ABTA site without success but only briefly.

any ideas PHers?

[Alorotom]

This provides a reasonably generic breakdown of what a material change is:
https://www.travellawquarterly.co.uk/resources/tra...

Section specifically, What if my tour operator makes changes to my package before I travel?

What agent is it, as it would be useful to be able to look at their specific t&cs

I would suggest that such a change is absolutely material and the replacement offer is inferior and therefore a suitable price adjustment is required. (considering I have some flights booked with United for October, they moved the transatlantic flight element by 30mins a couple of weeks ago and gave the option of a full refund as they deemed that as material)

[TheDrownedApe]

Alorotom said:

This provides a reasonably generic breakdown of what a material change is:
https://www.travellawquarterly.co.uk/resources/tra...

Section specifically, What if my tour operator makes changes to my package before I travel?

What agent is it, as it would be useful to be able to look at their specific t&cs

I would suggest that such a change is absolutely material and the replacement offer is inferior and therefore a suitable price adjustment is required. (considering I have some flights booked with United for October, they moved the transatlantic flight element by 30mins a couple of weeks ago and gave the option of a full refund as they deemed that as material)

Thanks. I've asked my folks for the booking info and will dig through the T&Cs but wanted to get a head start.

[TheDrownedApe]

So ive read the T&Cs and here is the relevant section:

It is unlikely that we will have to make any changes to your holiday but we do plan your holiday arrangements many months in advance. Occasionally changes may be made, which we reserve the right to do at any time.

Most of these changes are insignificant and we will advise you at the earliest possible date. Examples of insignificant changes include: alteration of your outward/return flights by less than 12 hours, changes to airline or aircraft type, a direct to an indirect flight which arrives within 12 hours of your originally booked flight arrival time, a change of UK departure airport between Gatwick, Heathrow, Luton, Stansted, London City and Southend; between Birmingham and East Midlands; between Liverpool and Manchester; and between Edinburgh and Glasgow; or between the original airport and any other alternative UK airport within a 70-mile radius, change of accommodation/cabin to another of the same or higher standard, withdrawal of a hotel facility which is outside of our control and does not impact on the overall delivery of the tour, cancellation of an optional excursion.

A significant change is one that we make to your holiday arrangements before departure that involves, for example, changing your resort area, or time of departure or return by more than twelve hours, or offering accommodation with a lower official classification than that advertised (except the latter in the case of en-route tour hotels). If a significant change becomes necessary we will inform you as soon as is reasonably possible if there is time before your departure. When a significant change occurs you will have the choice of either accepting the change of arrangements, purchasing another available holiday from us (we will refund any price difference if alternative is of lower value), or cancelling your holiday and receiving a full refund of all monies paid (we will also provide a full refund of your travel insurance premiums if you purchased insurance from us). When a significant change occurs, provided it does not arise from circumstances amounting to force majeure (see below), we will pay compensation as detailed below, based on how far ahead of departure the change is advised:

my parents initial complaint email elicited the following reply;

"We have to move quicky to book our guests on to what flights are available that day and as we are covered in our Terms and Conditions for such changes, we have no obligation to consult our guests. "

So nowhere is it mentioned a different ARRIVAL airport. 80yo father and 74yo mother now have an additional 2 hrs transfer, they were not offered change of dates or cancellation. Thoughts folks?

Edited by TheDrownedApe on Monday 12th September 16:42

[Mr Pointy]

What outcome do you want? Cancellation & refund or some money back? It's unlikley they are going to be able to book the same flights as originally booked so you need to decide what you want to happen.

[TheDrownedApe]

Well as most old folks they have accepted the response from the agent and are travelling on Wed morning at 0200. Had I known sooner I would have pushed for a change of dates with better flights but alas that's too late. I expect compensation for the changes as they devalue the holiday.

0400 flight time instead of early afternoon

Early return missing on a full night's sleep

2x3 hr transfer instead of 2x 1.5hrs.

However I don't want to pen a reply for my parents to use without having the ammunition they need. So any help is appreciated

[Alorotom]

Its quite clear that any change is meant to be an improvement over the original offer, this quite clearly isnt. That being said I think by them already accepting the change may have removed the opportunity to salvage anything from this at all.

[Mark V GTD]

Alorotom said:

Its quite clear that any change is meant to be an improvement over the original offer, this quite clearly isnt. That being said I think by them already accepting the change may have removed the opportunity to salvage anything from this at all.

How is it clear that a change is meant to be an improvement? Surely its just a change - either a major or minor one and could be better or worse.

[r159]

Out of interest have they sorted out anything about getting into their accommodation early, with that crappy flight time they could be awake for 24hrs before seeing a bed. Ok if you’re in your 20s but not at that age…

[Alorotom]

Mark V GTD said:

Alorotom said:

Its quite clear that any change is meant to be an improvement over the original offer, this quite clearly isnt. That being said I think by them already accepting the change may have removed the opportunity to salvage anything from this at all.

How is it clear that a change is meant to be an improvement? Surely its just a change - either a major or minor one and could be better or worse.

Its in the PTR (Package Travel Regulations). If the changes, or the substitute package, are of lower quality you are entitled to an appropriate price reduction.

BUT, the killer point is who defines what constitutes higher or lower quality.

[Imasurv]

This is a wholly unsatisfactory situation and your parents have my sympathies. If these flights/transfers were offered at point of sale they would not have even considered them and sought alternatives.

Reading the t&c’s it seems to span between significant and not significant being at 12 hours, so I would certainly challenge that. As another poster mentioned, if they are flying at 2.30am, arriving around 6.30am ish then face a 3 hour transfer, it is possible their hotel room won’t be available, which again is unsatisfactory. It’s all pretty poor, and yet another example of poor service and the needs of the customer being completely ignored and blamed on covid etc….

Hope it gets sorted and they have an enjoyable break despite all this.

[Imasurv]

Alorotom said:

Mark V GTD said:

Alorotom said:

Its quite clear that any change is meant to be an improvement over the original offer, this quite clearly isnt. That being said I think by them already accepting the change may have removed the opportunity to salvage anything from this at all.

How is it clear that a change is meant to be an improvement? Surely its just a change - either a major or minor one and could be better or worse.

Its in the PTR (Package Travel Regulations). If the changes, or the substitute package, are of lower quality you are entitled to an appropriate price reduction.

BUT, the killer point is who defines what constitutes higher or lower quality.

I suspect this would be subject to the view of the courts, unless there is case law history either way….

[Giulia Jon]

I am trying to make a positive out of this .
Which airport 2 hours away are they being flown to ?

Bologna ,Venice ? maybe even Florence or Pisa ?

They could spend some of their first day exploring a nother city .
I'm assuming original airport for Como being Linate or Malpensa .

[TheDrownedApe]

Thanks for the replies. I've not enquired about the new airport as it doesn't affect me or the issue. They also didn't tell me about the offer of hotel accommodation at Bristol and I only saw it when they forwarded me the email yesterday. I shall take it further with the agent, thanks all

[superpp]

Is it really a 2.30am flight, I'm not aware of any airport running flights at that time?

[C G]

superpp said:

Is it really a 2.30am flight, I'm not aware of any airport running flights at that time?

Almost all UK airports have a curfew preventing that.

[InitialDave]

I'm afraid I can't offer you any active help, OP, but you have my sympathy for being on the receiving end of the "we'll tell you about a situation you could've helped a lot with, but too late and with too little information for you to be able to" routine.

[TheDrownedApe]

C G said:

superpp said:

Is it really a 2.30am flight, I'm not aware of any airport running flights at that time?

Almost all UK airports have a curfew preventing that.

Yeah when I got the email its 0400, not 0230

[Mark V GTD]

Not many UK airports allowed to do 4.00am flights either....

[djc206]

Would I be right in thinking they’ve moved to the Bristol to Verona flight? That leaves at 6am not 4am, I’m guessing 4am is the time check in opens?