Driving to the Alps and 'snow socks'
Discussion
I have just purchased a new BMW X5 and in January 2023 will be going to the Alps and specifically St Martin de Belleville with friends who ski (we don't, but enjoy other activities) I understand snow chains won't fit the car but snow socks will. I'm quite happy driving in snow and have done professionally for many years before retiring.
Questions I would like to ask for anyone who winters in the Alps, How well cleared will the roads be, I appreciate recent snow fall will cover roads but assume they are quickly cleared. Will snow socks be sufficient, I'm not really minded to buy winter tyres for what might just be one week. Finally the X5 is four wheel drive which axle should the snow shoes be fitted to. My thinking is front which are driven and steered.
Your views are greatly appreciated.
Jim
Questions I would like to ask for anyone who winters in the Alps, How well cleared will the roads be, I appreciate recent snow fall will cover roads but assume they are quickly cleared. Will snow socks be sufficient, I'm not really minded to buy winter tyres for what might just be one week. Finally the X5 is four wheel drive which axle should the snow shoes be fitted to. My thinking is front which are driven and steered.
Your views are greatly appreciated.
Jim
The AA says "Socks aren’t as effective as chains and they’re not considered an 'approved' alternative to chains in countries where signs show that chains must be used"
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/seasonal/snow...
I bought some of these snow socks for my M3 a few years back just to get some traction in our ungritted private road, but there's so little tyre to body clearance it was impossible to get them on without jacking the car up. I can't see them lasting more than a few miles, not really up to the purpose you might need.
ETA: useful thread from Snowheads: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=12...
If this was me, and I had a new X5 then I would just be punting for a set of snow chains to be better safe than sorry.
This place says they sell them for the X5. Or are you on huge rims beyond these?
https://www.snowchainstore.co.uk/snow-chains-for-s...
https://www.theaa.com/driving-advice/seasonal/snow...
I bought some of these snow socks for my M3 a few years back just to get some traction in our ungritted private road, but there's so little tyre to body clearance it was impossible to get them on without jacking the car up. I can't see them lasting more than a few miles, not really up to the purpose you might need.
ETA: useful thread from Snowheads: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=12...
If this was me, and I had a new X5 then I would just be punting for a set of snow chains to be better safe than sorry.
This place says they sell them for the X5. Or are you on huge rims beyond these?
https://www.snowchainstore.co.uk/snow-chains-for-s...
Edited by PurpleTurtle on Thursday 11th August 15:04
Snow socks are broadly speaking pretty useless. Moderately better than summer tyres. But only moderately. Possibly OK in an emergency but I wouldn't want to rely on them when it was really bad and especially not on steep resort access roads.
Snow chains, despite being a legal requirement in France, are only really of any use when the snow is deep. Most of the time they just serve to make a horrible noise and ruin the road surface. I've got the expensive Thule easy-fit ones but never actually used them.
I know you've said you don't want winters, but I can strongly recommend that you fit an all-season tyre like the Michelin Crossclimate. Seriously good tyres, I've driven to the French Alps every year (Covid allowing) for the last decade and these are an absolute revelation. Fine for year-round use, but they are snow-marked so the Gendarmes will just wave you on your way when the snow comes down and since I've had them on the XC90 I've not had a single problem. Perhaps it's just me but you do feel very smug driving past all the tourists struggling to put their chains on and getting very dirty and wet with it.
Not that I'd recommend it, but there are many people who just chance it. I've only ever had conditions bad enough for the gendarmes to stop traffic twice and particularly with somewhere as low as St Martin you're most unlikely to actually need them. This Easter it was dumping it down (they had a metre in Val Thorens in the two days before we arrived) and they set up the roadblock some way above St Martin.
Snow chains, despite being a legal requirement in France, are only really of any use when the snow is deep. Most of the time they just serve to make a horrible noise and ruin the road surface. I've got the expensive Thule easy-fit ones but never actually used them.
I know you've said you don't want winters, but I can strongly recommend that you fit an all-season tyre like the Michelin Crossclimate. Seriously good tyres, I've driven to the French Alps every year (Covid allowing) for the last decade and these are an absolute revelation. Fine for year-round use, but they are snow-marked so the Gendarmes will just wave you on your way when the snow comes down and since I've had them on the XC90 I've not had a single problem. Perhaps it's just me but you do feel very smug driving past all the tourists struggling to put their chains on and getting very dirty and wet with it.
Not that I'd recommend it, but there are many people who just chance it. I've only ever had conditions bad enough for the gendarmes to stop traffic twice and particularly with somewhere as low as St Martin you're most unlikely to actually need them. This Easter it was dumping it down (they had a metre in Val Thorens in the two days before we arrived) and they set up the roadblock some way above St Martin.
Thanks for your replies, most informative and as you quite rightly point out snow socks aren't up to the job.
Initially I thought I couldn't fit snow chains (my car is on 20inch rims) having gone through the BMW website I've found ones that will fit.
At around £321 they are a bit of a no brainer against winter tyres at £1,100.
Thanks again.
Initially I thought I couldn't fit snow chains (my car is on 20inch rims) having gone through the BMW website I've found ones that will fit.
At around £321 they are a bit of a no brainer against winter tyres at £1,100.
Thanks again.
There was a thread last year where a poster went over the alps in a rwd 7 series just using snow socks, conditions looked bad but he made it.
Actually here's the badger.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Actually here's the badger.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Wills2 said:
There was a thread last year where a poster went over the alps in a rwd 7 series just using snow socks, conditions looked bad but he made it.
Actually here's the badger.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Good thread that had passed me by!Actually here's the badger.
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
But this is the main reason I will stick with fitting snow-marked tyres in the first place:
Poster said:
Rears went in quick, as the size 850 covers the 275/35/20, and a few sizes up. The fronts were more of a battle, as the size 695 is right on the verge of fitting 245/35/20. None of this was helped by the fact that I had not lifted the suspension, so I played with about 40mm of clearance, whilst cutting my hands rather badly.
When I repeated the event later on when returning across Umbrail pass, it was less erratic, and more controllable, but still took good part of 20mins. I suppose not bad.
Taking these off, again especially at the front was a real challenge, because the wet socks literally stick to wet tyres, and are not eager to come off. Think latex glove on a palm of a hand for an hour. Same thing!
When I repeated the event later on when returning across Umbrail pass, it was less erratic, and more controllable, but still took good part of 20mins. I suppose not bad.
Taking these off, again especially at the front was a real challenge, because the wet socks literally stick to wet tyres, and are not eager to come off. Think latex glove on a palm of a hand for an hour. Same thing!
Haven driven an X5 up snowy roads in the alps - I would say you need snow chains aswell. The grip on an x5 is worse than a 2wd 5 series with winter tyres. Im sure I also had some caterpillar type snow chains - they were a pain to fit - but did the job. As mentioned earlier if its snowing hard - they won't let you up certain roads. The good thing is they are brilliant at clearing snow when it does fall.
jojim65 said:
Thanks for your replies, most informative and as you quite rightly point out snow socks aren't up to the job.
Initially I thought I couldn't fit snow chains (my car is on 20inch rims) having gone through the BMW website I've found ones that will fit.
At around £321 they are a bit of a no brainer against winter tyres at £1,100.
Thanks again.
Good to see PH helping out! Initially I thought I couldn't fit snow chains (my car is on 20inch rims) having gone through the BMW website I've found ones that will fit.
At around £321 they are a bit of a no brainer against winter tyres at £1,100.
Thanks again.
Sod's law as it is you can probably chuck them in the boot, find that you do not need them, flog them on at a small loss when you get back!
jojim65 said:
I have just purchased a new BMW X5 and in January 2023 will be going to the Alps and specifically St Martin de Belleville with friends who ski (we don't, but enjoy other activities) I understand snow chains won't fit the car but snow socks will. I'm quite happy driving in snow and have done professionally for many years before retiring.
Questions I would like to ask for anyone who winters in the Alps, How well cleared will the roads be, I appreciate recent snow fall will cover roads but assume they are quickly cleared. Will snow socks be sufficient, I'm not really minded to buy winter tyres for what might just be one week. Finally the X5 is four wheel drive which axle should the snow shoes be fitted to. My thinking is front which are driven and steered.
Your views are greatly appreciated.
Jim
I think you've got your answers, but look for some used M&S tyres now. Don't wait for the Autumn.Questions I would like to ask for anyone who winters in the Alps, How well cleared will the roads be, I appreciate recent snow fall will cover roads but assume they are quickly cleared. Will snow socks be sufficient, I'm not really minded to buy winter tyres for what might just be one week. Finally the X5 is four wheel drive which axle should the snow shoes be fitted to. My thinking is front which are driven and steered.
Your views are greatly appreciated.
Jim
Loads of folks buy new M&S, use them once or twice, then sell the car, being left with tyres which are useless to them.
I managed to buy a full set of Audi alloys, fitted with used twice M&S for £600.
Used them for Alps trips 3 times and sold them for £400.
In my experience (fairly substantial) of driving to the Alps, 9 times out of 10 you won't use your chains at all, but the one time you will need to, you will be putting them on half way up the mountain and by the time you hit the resort the snow will be a foot or so deep and coming down fast. The snow plows work fast but you will be sat on the mountainside for hours/till next morning to be guaranteed a clear run. Not practical.
Also not practical is chancing it. The police will turn you round if you don't have chains or winter tyres fitted and you need them. You may also get a fine.
We now tend to use an old jeep for the trip with full chunky winters fitted, but still carry chains regardless of its ability to pull through deep snow as it does this slowly and we don't want to inconvenience others.
If the cars a keeper I'd suggest a set of the smallest diameter wheels that go over the brakes fitted with either crossclimates or winters (and fit them in this country every winter too, the amount of soft roaders that get stuck in the piddling amount of snow we get here every year is embarrassing) and chuck a set of chains in the boot. Your manual will tell you which axle to fit them too, it depends whether your 4wd system is front or rear biased, ours is rear so you fit chains to the rear, I suspect the haldex based systems which are front biased advise front.
Also not practical is chancing it. The police will turn you round if you don't have chains or winter tyres fitted and you need them. You may also get a fine.
We now tend to use an old jeep for the trip with full chunky winters fitted, but still carry chains regardless of its ability to pull through deep snow as it does this slowly and we don't want to inconvenience others.
If the cars a keeper I'd suggest a set of the smallest diameter wheels that go over the brakes fitted with either crossclimates or winters (and fit them in this country every winter too, the amount of soft roaders that get stuck in the piddling amount of snow we get here every year is embarrassing) and chuck a set of chains in the boot. Your manual will tell you which axle to fit them too, it depends whether your 4wd system is front or rear biased, ours is rear so you fit chains to the rear, I suspect the haldex based systems which are front biased advise front.
jojim65 said:
Thanks for your replies, most informative and as you quite rightly point out snow socks aren't up to the job.
Initially I thought I couldn't fit snow chains (my car is on 20inch rims) having gone through the BMW website I've found ones that will fit.
At around £321 they are a bit of a no brainer against winter tyres at £1,100.
Thanks again.
Also practice putting them on - if they are similar to the ones I had they weren't easy to fit. You don't want the first time to be in subzero temps and snowing hard.Initially I thought I couldn't fit snow chains (my car is on 20inch rims) having gone through the BMW website I've found ones that will fit.
At around £321 they are a bit of a no brainer against winter tyres at £1,100.
Thanks again.
Generally agree with all of the other posters here, a few thoughts to add:
- Its very rare that you do NEED more than regular tyres, but when you do, you absolutely do.
- Chains are the A Game, will get you through anything the car can pass.
- Fitting chains (even the fancier variants) is cold, wet and on the ground.
I carry leather gloves, knee pads, pliers and a head torch for chain fitting, it makes it slightly less horrible. A test fit of chains in a warm dry garage on a flat dry surface is well worth doing: it will be slightly tricky, despite perfect conditions, but you will be so glad of it in the dark, cold, wet chainage area....
You feel awfully smug if you can fit chains quickly on the mountain and then continue your journey.
Its also worth thinking about when you are likely to be travelling up/ down the mountain, if you are in the regular changeover day convoy, there are more likely to be gendarmes enforcing chain use (not a bad thing!), but the road is well cleared by sheer volume of traffic. If, like me, you plan to be travelling midnight, mid week, then chains are more likely to be required, but less likely to be checked....
- Its very rare that you do NEED more than regular tyres, but when you do, you absolutely do.
- Chains are the A Game, will get you through anything the car can pass.
- Fitting chains (even the fancier variants) is cold, wet and on the ground.
I carry leather gloves, knee pads, pliers and a head torch for chain fitting, it makes it slightly less horrible. A test fit of chains in a warm dry garage on a flat dry surface is well worth doing: it will be slightly tricky, despite perfect conditions, but you will be so glad of it in the dark, cold, wet chainage area....
You feel awfully smug if you can fit chains quickly on the mountain and then continue your journey.
Its also worth thinking about when you are likely to be travelling up/ down the mountain, if you are in the regular changeover day convoy, there are more likely to be gendarmes enforcing chain use (not a bad thing!), but the road is well cleared by sheer volume of traffic. If, like me, you plan to be travelling midnight, mid week, then chains are more likely to be required, but less likely to be checked....
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