Remote working (very) short term in Spain as a UK national
Discussion
I plan to be in Spain for a holiday this summer, in an ideal world I would be able to work remotely for a portion of that time - roughly 5 days over a period of 3 weeks.
I will be working on UK related work, for a firm registered in the UK.
My work supports remote working in various EU locations including Spain but has asked on my 'right to work' and visa requirements.
Reading guidance published by Spanish authorities they are clear there is a visa requirement for stays (regardless of purpose of visit) of over 183 days, and Spanish authorities are looking at 'digital nomad' visas for remote working, again for over 183 days (but specifically for remote working).
The only applicable legislation I can find quoted by Spanish authorities is:
'In compliance with EU regulation 2018/1806 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 14 November 2018 British passport holders travelling to Schengen countries for holidays, business or to visit family do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day-period'.
I have raised this to the Spanish Consulate/Embassy here in England to see if they can assist in clarification.
I am pessimistic at resolving this in the way I want and it appears the 'right to work' is the blocker over and above a visa - that said there appears a bit of a grey area here for periods under 90 days (which may be totally irrelevant without a 'right to work').
I will be working on UK related work, for a firm registered in the UK.
My work supports remote working in various EU locations including Spain but has asked on my 'right to work' and visa requirements.
Reading guidance published by Spanish authorities they are clear there is a visa requirement for stays (regardless of purpose of visit) of over 183 days, and Spanish authorities are looking at 'digital nomad' visas for remote working, again for over 183 days (but specifically for remote working).
The only applicable legislation I can find quoted by Spanish authorities is:
'In compliance with EU regulation 2018/1806 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 14 November 2018 British passport holders travelling to Schengen countries for holidays, business or to visit family do not require a visa for stays of up to 90 days in a 180 day-period'.
I have raised this to the Spanish Consulate/Embassy here in England to see if they can assist in clarification.
I am pessimistic at resolving this in the way I want and it appears the 'right to work' is the blocker over and above a visa - that said there appears a bit of a grey area here for periods under 90 days (which may be totally irrelevant without a 'right to work').
The Spanish consulate has confirmed a visa is required for any work. Looks like 80 Euro for the privilege.
'British citizens and their family member need visa for journey undertaken after 31st December 2020 for the purposes of residence, studies for period larger than 90 days, work, professional, artistic or religious activities.'
'British citizens and their family member need visa for journey undertaken after 31st December 2020 for the purposes of residence, studies for period larger than 90 days, work, professional, artistic or religious activities.'
boombang said:
The Spanish consulate has confirmed a visa is required for any work. Looks like 80 Euro for the privilege.
'British citizens and their family member need visa for journey undertaken after 31st December 2020 for the purposes of residence, studies for period larger than 90 days, work, professional, artistic or religious activities.'
And, I presume, they may still refuse the visa.'British citizens and their family member need visa for journey undertaken after 31st December 2020 for the purposes of residence, studies for period larger than 90 days, work, professional, artistic or religious activities.'
It's a real pisser. I worked with a really good guy for the last 4 years (UK company) He is Cypriot and spent around half the year in Cyprus and half the year in UK. He just flew over whenever we had some big projects on the go, and then worked from home in Cyprus the rest of the time.
Now he's quit his job and over to working for a Cypriot company as it was just too complicated with regards to visas to work in the UK after Brexit and so on.
A friend of mine has the same issue as you, he works from home most of the time (In the UK, for a UK company), and wants to work from home at his house in Portugal for a few months of the year and now all a mess of Visas etc.
I'm struggling to understand why this is an issue, why your employer has asked or why you need a special visa.
You're essentially on holiday but nipping on the laptop and doing a bit of work whilst you're there. I'd say that applies to half the people who ever go on holiday anywhere.
You're not taking money out of the Spanish economy or have any tax liability to the Spanish authorities. You're just doing what you'd do in the UK but in a hotel room in Spain. No?
You're essentially on holiday but nipping on the laptop and doing a bit of work whilst you're there. I'd say that applies to half the people who ever go on holiday anywhere.
You're not taking money out of the Spanish economy or have any tax liability to the Spanish authorities. You're just doing what you'd do in the UK but in a hotel room in Spain. No?
StevieBee said:
I'm struggling to understand why this is an issue, why your employer has asked or why you need a special visa.
You're essentially on holiday but nipping on the laptop and doing a bit of work whilst you're there. I'd say that applies to half the people who ever go on holiday anywhere.
You're not taking money out of the Spanish economy or have any tax liability to the Spanish authorities. You're just doing what you'd do in the UK but in a hotel room in Spain. No?
I can't speak for the OP, but Spain, Portugal, and others (for example) have decided that 'nipping on the laptop and doing a bit of work' is classed as 'Working in Spain' and therefore needs a Visa, otherwise you are in breach of their immigration and visa-waiver rules, and could be in deep poo.You're essentially on holiday but nipping on the laptop and doing a bit of work whilst you're there. I'd say that applies to half the people who ever go on holiday anywhere.
You're not taking money out of the Spanish economy or have any tax liability to the Spanish authorities. You're just doing what you'd do in the UK but in a hotel room in Spain. No?
Now, this may not be an issue as the Spanish likely won't know you are working on your laptop in your villa, but, the UK employer will know that you are in Spain for several weeks and that you will be working whilst there. This will be obvious during a Teams meeting, and the ring tone on your mobile when they call you... amongst other things.
The UK company will then demand that the employee provides evidence they aren't working in Spain illegally and are complying with the rules, much like they will ask to see a copy of your driving licence before allowing you to use your car for work business.
The UK business cannot condone or allow 'illegal working' or a breach of another countries immigration, work, or tax rules.
The OP can't provide this evidence to his employer without a proper work visa for Spain.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 28th February 15:30
As has been said, how will they know?
It's 5 days over 3 weeks.
This is good timing as my daughter wants to stay with her mate in Madrid when she graduates in June for 2 months.
She has a job to go to after graduating and rather wait until she returns to start the job she wants to work remotely for those 2 months.
The job is with the same company she did her placement with and most of that was in lockdown so done remotely.
Hopefully they are ok with it but she will definitely need a Visa being full time.
It's 5 days over 3 weeks.
This is good timing as my daughter wants to stay with her mate in Madrid when she graduates in June for 2 months.
She has a job to go to after graduating and rather wait until she returns to start the job she wants to work remotely for those 2 months.
The job is with the same company she did her placement with and most of that was in lockdown so done remotely.
Hopefully they are ok with it but she will definitely need a Visa being full time.
Yup I am boned. I can't see why a visa would be denied for what little it is, and if they do they give back the fee - however I need to make an appointment and go into London to discuss the visa, so it's unlikely I'll get that sorted.
If I was just doing emails and calls on a mobile I wouldn't be doing my job, I need access to a virtual desktop for at least one of those weeks.
Naive to think this wouldn't be yet another thing Brexit f
ked.
Looks like I'll be shortening my holiday by a week and leaving family out there.
If I was just doing emails and calls on a mobile I wouldn't be doing my job, I need access to a virtual desktop for at least one of those weeks.
Naive to think this wouldn't be yet another thing Brexit f
ked.Looks like I'll be shortening my holiday by a week and leaving family out there.
GreatGranny said:
As has been said, how will they know?
It's 5 days over 3 weeks.
This is good timing as my daughter wants to stay with her mate in Madrid when she graduates in June for 2 months.
She has a job to go to after graduating and rather wait until she returns to start the job she wants to work remotely for those 2 months.
The job is with the same company she did her placement with and most of that was in lockdown so done remotely.
Hopefully they are ok with it but she will definitely need a Visa being full time.
Because as per my post above, there is a 99.9% chance that the Spanish authorities won't know, but the employer will know, and that's where the problem is. The employer will want to see proof that the employee is acting legally, which requires a visa.It's 5 days over 3 weeks.
This is good timing as my daughter wants to stay with her mate in Madrid when she graduates in June for 2 months.
She has a job to go to after graduating and rather wait until she returns to start the job she wants to work remotely for those 2 months.
The job is with the same company she did her placement with and most of that was in lockdown so done remotely.
Hopefully they are ok with it but she will definitely need a Visa being full time.
The OP's employer has already asked that he proves he is acting legally whilst working abroad.
It gets worse - the Spanish will have you for the tax on the work that you perform on Spanish soil.
I work in gaming and my office is based in Gibraltar, although I'm UK home based.
Most of my colleagues work in Gib but live in Spain and recent tax developments mean that they can't WFH like me because the Spanish want millions in tax. I'm not sure of the actual details, but it boils down to that.
I work in gaming and my office is based in Gibraltar, although I'm UK home based.
Most of my colleagues work in Gib but live in Spain and recent tax developments mean that they can't WFH like me because the Spanish want millions in tax. I'm not sure of the actual details, but it boils down to that.
Dog Star said:
It gets worse - the Spanish will have you for the tax on the work that you perform on Spanish soil.
I work in gaming and my office is based in Gibraltar, although I'm UK home based.
Most of my colleagues work in Gib but live in Spain and recent tax developments mean that they can't WFH like me because the Spanish want millions in tax. I'm not sure of the actual details, but it boils down to that.
The still to be announced 'digital nomad' scheme that Spain are working on will apparently want 20% tax for any work done in Spain. That again applies to stays over 183 days. Whole thing is a mess.I work in gaming and my office is based in Gibraltar, although I'm UK home based.
Most of my colleagues work in Gib but live in Spain and recent tax developments mean that they can't WFH like me because the Spanish want millions in tax. I'm not sure of the actual details, but it boils down to that.
Only reason I started down this route was my work specifically promoting UK staff could work in other countries for 3 weeks each calendar year - I assume now the scheme was aimed at non-UK (i.e. EU) nationals.
bigandclever said:
Dog Star said:
It gets worse - the Spanish will have you for the tax on the work that you perform on Spanish soil.
Given what the OP has said, they're going to be nowhere near any of the thresholds to have to pay Spanish tax.Being able to do any work at all would be a good start!
Lord Marylebone said:
bigandclever said:
Dog Star said:
It gets worse - the Spanish will have you for the tax on the work that you perform on Spanish soil.
Given what the OP has said, they're going to be nowhere near any of the thresholds to have to pay Spanish tax.Being able to do any work at all would be a good start!
bigandclever said:
Given what the OP has said, they're going to be nowhere near any of the thresholds to have to pay Spanish tax.
Flat 20% on any earnings is what's been mooted to date under digital nomad scheme. That's on top of anything you owe to your non-Spanish country in which you are employed.For a handful of days working so I can take a 3 week trip with family I'd happily pay 80 Euro visa and or 20% of gross, but the hassle of time off work to sort, reporting and paying will likely make it a no-go.
DeejRC said:
The UK employer wouldn’t give a flying rat fk.
Have almost the exact same situation with a contact who is largely based in Spain. I recommend him to various clients I also work with who may or may not hire him. Very simple contracts and nobody gives a rat arse about any Spanish Visa.
The OP has already said that his employer wants to see the visa before they allow him to work from Spain, however short the duration.k.Have almost the exact same situation with a contact who is largely based in Spain. I recommend him to various clients I also work with who may or may not hire him. Very simple contracts and nobody gives a rat arse about any Spanish Visa.
My employer has also made mention recently that anyone wanting to work remotely from outside the UK must comply with all laws governing working in the country they are proposing to work from, and they will want to see proof of this.
Employers have a duty to make sure that their employees aren’t breaking the law, either here or in Spain, whilst working for them.
It’s the same as an employer wanting to see copies of your driving licence and insurance before allowing you to use your car for work.
Lord Marylebone said:
Because as per my post above, there is a 99.9% chance that the Spanish authorities won't know, but the employer will know, and that's where the problem is. The employer will want to see proof that the employee is acting legally, which requires a visa.
The OP's employer has already asked that he proves he is acting legally whilst working abroad.
I have to say that the phrase "the employer will know" only definitely applies in the OPs case because he's told them.The OP's employer has already asked that he proves he is acting legally whilst working abroad.
Unless I was stupid enough to have the pool in the background when I was on Teams calls, there's absolutely no way on this earth my employer would have a clue where I was working from. Your circumstances may vary.
Lord Marylebone said:
Because as per my post above, there is a 99.9% chance that the Spanish authorities won't know, but the employer will know, and that's where the problem is. The employer will want to see proof that the employee is acting legally, which requires a visa.
The OP's employer has already asked that he proves he is acting legally whilst working abroad.
Ah ok, sorry missed the bit where the employer wants proof that he is acting legally.The OP's employer has already asked that he proves he is acting legally whilst working abroad.
Just seems over the top from the employer for a few days work.
OP, don't have a job where, even when on holiday, you need to work!
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