"Dark" Holidays
Discussion
I don't fancy cambodia but I would like to go to Auschwitz and the war graves in France. I would also like to go to chenobyl. More to pay respect to the horror that has occured in the past than anything else but I'm a funny bugger who would rather be at work than have a 2 week beach holiday.
I've been to Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camp, the WW1 trenches just outside Ypres and the Normandie beaches/museums.
All were fascinating for their own reasons and the reason for my visits was to learn more about what happened there and understand the scale of the events that occured at each place and pay my respects to those who suffered.
Also to actually visit and stand where men younger than me stood and were shot/gassed/starved/freezing cold/terrified etc is quite sobering and makes you realise just how bloody lucky we are today.
The day people stop visiting these places and they get forgotten is the day s
t like that occurs again.
All were fascinating for their own reasons and the reason for my visits was to learn more about what happened there and understand the scale of the events that occured at each place and pay my respects to those who suffered.
Also to actually visit and stand where men younger than me stood and were shot/gassed/starved/freezing cold/terrified etc is quite sobering and makes you realise just how bloody lucky we are today.
The day people stop visiting these places and they get forgotten is the day s
t like that occurs again.Cyder said:
Also to actually visit and stand where men younger than me stood and were shot/gassed/starved/freezing cold/terrified etc is quite sobering and makes you realise just how bloody lucky we are today.
The day people stop visiting these places and they get forgotten is the day st like that occurs again.
Quite. One time I went to France with my parents, my grandad gave us a list of names. They were the kids he went to school with, who had lain dead in northern France for fifty years. We went back with a photograph of each grave as requested - it only took us one day because most of them died on D-Day and were buried in the same place, but even as a kid I found it very moving. The youngest was only a few years older than me.The day people stop visiting these places and they get forgotten is the day s
t like that occurs again.
During a trip to Cambodia/Vietnam I went to the Killing Fields and the main prison in Phnom Penh, Tuol Sleng, where they held prisoners prior to sending them to the killing fields.
It wasn't the reason I went to Cambodia and you didn't have to go along but I went because I really don't think I knew enough about what happened in that time.
It was awful, I mean truely awful. The prison still had the blocks where they were held and some of the instruments of torture. The killing fields had a main memorial/shrine where they held the skulls of victims as well as some of their clothes. In the fields our guide poured water onto the ground and showed a piece of bone. They were everywhere on the ground, you just had to disturb the dirt to see bits.
Possibly one of the few times I have cried a little in public.
As for why I went? As I said above, I didn't know a great deal about what happened during that period of history and now I am far more aware of the horrors. Yes, it is dark but assuming you go with the intention to learn and not to be "entertained" or have another story to tell people then I think it's right for people to go to these places. To some extent, until you visit somewhere like the Killing Fields or Auschwitz I don't think you can fully understand the true horror man inflicts upon man. If it helps people remember what happened and prevents it happening again then I think it's right for people to be able to visit.
It wasn't the reason I went to Cambodia and you didn't have to go along but I went because I really don't think I knew enough about what happened in that time.
It was awful, I mean truely awful. The prison still had the blocks where they were held and some of the instruments of torture. The killing fields had a main memorial/shrine where they held the skulls of victims as well as some of their clothes. In the fields our guide poured water onto the ground and showed a piece of bone. They were everywhere on the ground, you just had to disturb the dirt to see bits.
Possibly one of the few times I have cried a little in public.
As for why I went? As I said above, I didn't know a great deal about what happened during that period of history and now I am far more aware of the horrors. Yes, it is dark but assuming you go with the intention to learn and not to be "entertained" or have another story to tell people then I think it's right for people to go to these places. To some extent, until you visit somewhere like the Killing Fields or Auschwitz I don't think you can fully understand the true horror man inflicts upon man. If it helps people remember what happened and prevents it happening again then I think it's right for people to be able to visit.
Ranger 6 said:
Cyder said:
I've been to Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camp...
Used to live just down the road - an eerie place, very quiet and by that I mean general noise, birdsong etc, just wasn't there.It was in stark contrast to the American Cemetery above Omaha beach which just felt peaceful and calm.
I've been to The Killing Fields, seen The Killing Tree and visited Tuol Sleng in Cambodia. I didn't go just to see that (I went to see Angkor Wat) but I personally don't think you can visit Cambodia without seeing things like that as the country is indelibly influenced by it. History is often unpleasant but without acknowledging and trying to comprehend it we cannot meaningfully move on.
Bungleaio said:
I would also like to go to chenobyl.
Remember not to buy the local under wear..... because Chernobyl fall out....Sorry.
I've been to a few WW2 cemeteries in Belgium (one on the way to my stag do would you believe) and each time I have found them upsetting and compelling in equal measure. Knowing how good we have it now in our modern world, and remembering those lost is a soul cleansing experience.
obob said:
I can't understand why people do it, holidays are meant to be fun. Going to one of these places would depress the hell out of you, I don't want to pay good money to get depressed.
No its not about being depressed , its about seeing a site of massive historic importance During a tour around Poland with my Polish girlfriend we visited Krakow , you know where was a facsinating place to visit
Lost soul said:
obob said:
I can't understand why people do it, holidays are meant to be fun. Going to one of these places would depress the hell out of you, I don't want to pay good money to get depressed.
No its not about being depressed , its about seeing a site of massive historic importance During a tour around Poland with my Polish girlfriend we visited Krakow , you know where was a facsinating place to visit
Its like some people hate the idea of going to say, India. They take one look at the chaotic streets, shabby buildings and mangy food and wonder why on earth anyone would choose to go on holiday there when there are other places that are nice and clean.
Holidays are a personal thing. Not everyone just wants 'fun'. Some people want interesting experiences, learning opportunities and visits to places of key significance.
Holidays are a personal thing. Not everyone just wants 'fun'. Some people want interesting experiences, learning opportunities and visits to places of key significance.
obob said:
I can't understand why people do it, holidays are meant to be fun. Going to one of these places would depress the hell out of you, I don't want to pay good money to get depressed.
They are actually meant to be a break from the norm. I'd rather spend my money being educated and stimulated mentally by visiting fascinating places of history than sat on a beach doing nothing.Unlike you, I do however understand why some people like to lay on a beach all day, it's just not the holiday for me normally.
I have done :
Berlin
Auchwitz
Sachsenhausen
All of Normandy
Ypres
Albert
Flanders
Maginot Line
+ lots of other WW1 and WW2 sites I can't remember at 3am. Still got a few places I want to visit such as Prora and Peenemunde.
Just for contrast and to show I'm not a total weirdo, I do sometimes indulge in a cheery holiday: Venice, Monaco, Barcelona in recent years
obob said:
Lost soul said:
obob said:
I can't understand why people do it, holidays are meant to be fun. Going to one of these places would depress the hell out of you, I don't want to pay good money to get depressed.
No its not about being depressed , its about seeing a site of massive historic importance During a tour around Poland with my Polish girlfriend we visited Krakow , you know where was a facsinating place to visit
Been to most of those places, my idea of holidays is usually to see cultures or things that would interest me. This could be traditional Thai dancing or it could be an afternoon at a concentration camp.
I certainly don't get emotional about any of it, it's fascinating to see and absorb the history. In fact i think getting emotional and depressed about it is a bit insulting to the real victims and you are 'stealing' their emotional trauma.
I certainly don't get emotional about any of it, it's fascinating to see and absorb the history. In fact i think getting emotional and depressed about it is a bit insulting to the real victims and you are 'stealing' their emotional trauma.
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