Coldwater to tropical?

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Discussion

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Saturday 30th April 2011
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Stupid question, can I rehome the goldfish, add a heater and go or do the chemicals in the water need to be different?

Its only a 35L tank and I am not after a huge stock of fish just some variety.

Edit - I have a pump and filter.

Thanks

Scott

jackthelad1984

839 posts

188 months

Sunday 1st May 2011
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you can get some cold water tropical fish, a friend has a cold water tank of a similar size with some small gold fish, plattys and guppies, and a few loaches, plenty of colour on the guppies to.

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Sunday 1st May 2011
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Indeed but the ambient temp of the tank is just too low because of where it is located and as such I don't think they would last.

The rehoming of the fish isn't too much of a problem as we have another 160L coldwater tank.

tenohfive

6,276 posts

189 months

Sunday 1st May 2011
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Yes, you can rehome them and crack on with it as a tropical tank. Just move the old occupants over and move the filter with them (assuming it's an internal rather than under gravel) and leave it running in the 160L tank whilst you sort out the 35L for tropicals. It'll take awhile for the water temp to rise so personally I'd move the fish and filter over, add the heater then go and buy the new fish the following day. Doing this just guarantees that none of the nitrifying bacteria will die off.


Quick question - are the gold fish common goldfish or the long finned, fancy variety? If the former then I'd start looking for a pond to rehome them in as it's a matter of time before they outgrow even a big tank (mine aren't far off outgrowing my 340L tank.)

What sort of stocking are you thinking of for the tropical setup? I can see a betta, 6-8 ember tetras and 6 pygmy corys looking lovely in that sized tank.

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Sunday 1st May 2011
quotequote all
tenohfive said:
Yes, you can rehome them and crack on with it as a tropical tank. Just move the old occupants over and move the filter with them (assuming it's an internal rather than under gravel) and leave it running in the 160L tank whilst you sort out the 35L for tropicals. It'll take awhile for the water temp to rise so personally I'd move the fish and filter over, add the heater then go and buy the new fish the following day. Doing this just guarantees that none of the nitrifying bacteria will die off.


Quick question - are the gold fish common goldfish or the long finned, fancy variety? If the former then I'd start looking for a pond to rehome them in as it's a matter of time before they outgrow even a big tank (mine aren't far off outgrowing my 340L tank.)

What sort of stocking are you thinking of for the tropical setup? I can see a betta, 6-8 ember tetras and 6 pygmy corys looking lovely in that sized tank.
Hi, firstly, thanks for taking the time to respond. I have read a lot of your previous answers and was hoping you would come along smile

I am unsure of variety if I am to be truthful. I have two of these little chaps around 2cm each. Only young.



With regards to the filter, Can I not use the same. I understand if I put it in the larger tank to keep it the filter moving and thus not cleaning the smaller tank any more to keep water quality the same but can I then put it back. I assume I can?

With regards to stock its not something I had thought about straight away. I am aware that I am limited due to size and thus was hoping I could be pointed in the right direction with regards to levels.

The LFS shop said around a dozen to 15 small fish and you have confirmed this, its just what fish now. I will take a look at the fish you have recommended but I am quite easy. I am just after a bit of colour. hehe

Thanks for your suggestions.

Scott


Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Sunday 1st May 2011
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Looks like conditions are perfect at current too. If a little chilly. hehe

Going to head off to the LFS as my heater doesnt have suction mounts, pick those up and a thermometer. The heater is a 100w Juwel. I read that around 1W per litre is required,

I only assume that the stat will be on and off more than usual. I'll set that to 25oC and see how we go.

otolith

59,152 posts

211 months

Sunday 1st May 2011
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Personally, I don't think I would worry too much about temporarily moving the filter if you are going to raise the temperature and stock immediately. I would restock conservatively and test regularly, though. I doubt a 5-7C increase in temperature will completely change the microbial ecology of the tank, I expect the current bacterial population will continue to do its stuff, but still best to keep an eye on things.

tenohfive

6,276 posts

189 months

Monday 2nd May 2011
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Just to clarify OP - when I said about moving the filter I meant temporarily, it's fine to use the same filter. The reason I suggested moving it is that the bacteria that break down fish waste live in the filter. They are essential to keeping live fish, but the begin to die off if they don't have a steady supply of fish waste. If leaving overnight it'll probably be fine, but leaving any longer it's worth moving the filter to an active tank - just to make sure the bacteria survive.

The gold fish are fancy goldfish - they'll be fine in the 160L. Common gold fish have a more stream lined body shape.

A quick bit of advice that I trot out to anyone and everyone: don't trust stocking advice from your LFS. I spend a lot of time on other forums correcting bad advice given by LFS' so I'm quite passionate about that point - always do your research first. There's a fair bit more to stocking than first meets the eye - the 'inch per gallon' or 'cm per litre' rules aren't really accurate, it depends on a lot of factors so it's well worth doing some research. A website I find pretty handy is linked below:
http://www.seriouslyfish.com/kb.php

Your best bet would be to take a wander around your LFS and note down names or photo's (if you can't work out what they are) of fish that you'd like. Come back, post up the list on here and someone will go through and suggest a suitable stocking list based on what you like.

otolith

59,152 posts

211 months

Monday 2nd May 2011
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The advice of a good LFS is invaluable. The advice of a bad one is worse than worthless. I know someone who was sold a silver shark for a two foot tank!

It's the difference between taking your car to a specialist versus a fast fit chain.

tenohfive

6,276 posts

189 months

Monday 2nd May 2011
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otolith said:
The advice of a good LFS is invaluable. The advice of a bad one is worse than worthless. I know someone who was sold a silver shark for a two foot tank!

It's the difference between taking your car to a specialist versus a fast fit chain.
I've dealt with literally hundreds of similar examples which is why I always advise people to check what they've been told - the odds are that it's bad advice. I've witnessed more than my fair share of bad advice being given (including in LFS' that I previously had respect for) so I strongly advise people to do their own research - it doesn't do any harm to come back the following day.


Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Monday 2nd May 2011
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Here it is.



2 panda corys.
3 guppies (Suckered in by the pretty colours)

Hopefully intending on changing the gravel to sand for the corys mid week.

Temperature a steady 25/26.

Edited by Scott330ci on Monday 2nd May 22:39

tenohfive

6,276 posts

189 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
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That's fine, but up the cory numbers to 6 - corys are a schooling fish and should be kept in groups. Personally I would have gone for pygmy corys but pandas stay small so you should get away with them.

Good call on switching substrate. If you've not got something planned already I swear by Argos play sand - £3 per 15kg, it's non toxic (as is all play sand) and it's got a lovely light colour.

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
quotequote all
tenohfive said:
If you've not got something planned already I swear by Argos play sand - £3 per 15kg, it's non toxic (as is all play sand) and it's got a lovely light colour.
How do you wash the sand?

otolith

59,152 posts

211 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
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Scott330ci said:
How do you wash the sand?
Put it in a bucket and rinse it - pour in clean water, swish it around, let the sand sink, pour the water out. Keep doing it until all it runs clear or you get bored. If you do it outside with a hosepipe, you can just let the bucket overflow while you hose the sand around the bottom of the bucket.

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
quotequote all
otolith said:
Put it in a bucket and rinse it - pour in clean water, swish it around, let the sand sink, pour the water out. Keep doing it until all it runs clear or you get bored. If you do it outside with a hosepipe, you can just let the bucket overflow while you hose the sand around the bottom of the bucket.
Thanks

Massive Noob question now. How much water should I remove and should I take the fish out?
I do not want the water to cool too much.

otolith

59,152 posts

211 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
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It will displace a bit less water than it takes up in the bucket, so I would take out roughly that much water and then top up afterwards if necessary.

If you are feeling cautious, after you've washed the sand in tapwater, give it a final rinse in tapwater with a bit of dechlorinator added. Then drain it as best you can.

If you are careful, there's no reason not to add the sand to a "live" tank, just do it slowly and carefully and make sure you don't bury any of your fish - don't just tip a big bucket of sand on their heads, scoop the wet sand out by hand or with a scoop and pour it in place.

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
quotequote all
OK - I think I would prefer to remove the fish thus I can clear the gravel properly. It should only take roughly ten minutes to remove the gravel and to return the sand. So they should be fine in a bucket I suppose for ten minutes?

otolith

59,152 posts

211 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
quotequote all
Yes, they should be fine for 10 mins.

Try grabbing a bit of gravel first, though and see what happens - if there's a lot of fish crap in the gravel you might want to think again about how you do the change, because you don't want to chuck the fish back into a tank full of crap soup. If so, you might want to syphon all of the water out before removing the gravel and crap, adding the sand and then refilling, which then becomes more logistically complicated. You want to save as much of the mature water as you can, so that you're not changing more than about half of it, but do you have somewhere to put that much water? With a big water change, you'll also need to make sure that it is about the right temperature and of course you'll need to make sure it is dechlorinated.

The other thing to bear in mind is that a surprisingly large proportion of the tank's biological filtration doesn't come from the media in the filter but from the bacterial film on all the internal surfaces of the tank - changing all of the substrate at once is going to have a significant impact on that, so at the very least you are going to need to keep a very close eye on water quality after the change.

Scott330ci

Original Poster:

18,125 posts

208 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
quotequote all
I'm a doer, not a sayer hehe

Gravel is gone, kicked up a bit of a fuss but not much.

Christ it was cold washing the sand but 15 minutes worth seems to have done the trick. All settling nicely. These pics were taken about 10 minutes after the change.

The two corys seem a lot happier now and as a bonus they stand out a lot more to the eye. Previously they seemed to have blended in with the dark gravel.

Chuffed now, but now I want to change the back drop.

Ten minutes after the change, happy yellow guppy.



Cory scrounging for leftovers.



The sand is around 2" at its highest point.

Thanks for the info.

Scott

otolith

59,152 posts

211 months

Tuesday 3rd May 2011
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Nicely done! Now just keep a close eye on the water test results, but should be fine.