traumatic time with our dog
Discussion
we have a very large Caucasian Ovcharka " Bonza" weighs in at 90kg . He stays with the mother in law in Siberia ,
We returned a few days ago to be met with the news that Bonza had not eaten or drink for 3 days and was sleeping in his kennel,not showing any active signs
I got home after work and Bonza was showing no signs of waking , we called the "so called vet " ( small village ) and after i removed a wall of the kennel and dragged old Bonza out , she took his temperature it was normal, she gave a couple of pain killers and said if you need more help you need to go to a proper vet 600km round trip !
So we had to get a neighbour in to help lift Bonza in the car and we took him to the main vets , the treatment was very thorough they took a scan , blood test and gave him 2 drips and several injections , then told us to take Bonza home we would get the results the next day.
The local vet came over and gave 3 more drips , still no movement from Bonza just sleeping , we placed him in the house nice and warm , then the results came in , possible food poisoning had effected his liver / kidneys he was not urinating and should be .and he needs several antibiotic injections. According to the main vet its treatable
The main vet advised using a catheter , local vet refused saying she has no experience with them looks likely she has given up .....bloody Russian !! !
So tonight I am coming home again and somehow we are going to get Bonza in the car and take him back to the main vets another wild 600km journey ,
But will do anything we can to try to get Bonza well again.
here a few photos of our Bonza hes 5 years old.
We returned a few days ago to be met with the news that Bonza had not eaten or drink for 3 days and was sleeping in his kennel,not showing any active signs
I got home after work and Bonza was showing no signs of waking , we called the "so called vet " ( small village ) and after i removed a wall of the kennel and dragged old Bonza out , she took his temperature it was normal, she gave a couple of pain killers and said if you need more help you need to go to a proper vet 600km round trip !
So we had to get a neighbour in to help lift Bonza in the car and we took him to the main vets , the treatment was very thorough they took a scan , blood test and gave him 2 drips and several injections , then told us to take Bonza home we would get the results the next day.
The local vet came over and gave 3 more drips , still no movement from Bonza just sleeping , we placed him in the house nice and warm , then the results came in , possible food poisoning had effected his liver / kidneys he was not urinating and should be .and he needs several antibiotic injections. According to the main vet its treatable
The main vet advised using a catheter , local vet refused saying she has no experience with them looks likely she has given up .....bloody Russian !! !
So tonight I am coming home again and somehow we are going to get Bonza in the car and take him back to the main vets another wild 600km journey ,
But will do anything we can to try to get Bonza well again.
here a few photos of our Bonza hes 5 years old.
Sorry to hear this. Do the proper vets not have a facility for Bonza to stay with them until he is well? Usually if an animal is very sick, especially if they aren't eating & drinking and are failing to pass waste this is standard procedure. That way he would be in the right place for proper medical attention.
If you mean he is to have his bladder catheterised because he isn't passing urine, then the only reason for this is if his bladder or urethra is blocked. Completely unnecessary if bladder got very little urine in it. However, that may be confusion in translation on my part.
How old is Bonza? Certainly not uncommon to find some liver or kidney problems in old dogs, and for a big breed like this, old would be 7yr+. Unlikely to have liver or kidney probs from food poisoning, which not surprisingly usually shows as diarrhoea. Ask for the blood results and either post them here or email them to me and I'll see if I can inderstand russian lab reports.
My feeling with the info so far that it is not infection but more likely chronic renal/liver failure due to old age but that needs to be confirmed or ruled out by the bloods. In the meantime, iv fluids are the best supportive therapy, and if the dog is reasonably hydrated, should begin to produce urine which will pass out if there is no blockage. For a 90kg pooch, 5litres of fluids would just start to rehydrate a dog with 5% dehyration, and then several litres a day to maintain would be required. HTH and best wishes to B.
How old is Bonza? Certainly not uncommon to find some liver or kidney problems in old dogs, and for a big breed like this, old would be 7yr+. Unlikely to have liver or kidney probs from food poisoning, which not surprisingly usually shows as diarrhoea. Ask for the blood results and either post them here or email them to me and I'll see if I can inderstand russian lab reports.
My feeling with the info so far that it is not infection but more likely chronic renal/liver failure due to old age but that needs to be confirmed or ruled out by the bloods. In the meantime, iv fluids are the best supportive therapy, and if the dog is reasonably hydrated, should begin to produce urine which will pass out if there is no blockage. For a 90kg pooch, 5litres of fluids would just start to rehydrate a dog with 5% dehyration, and then several litres a day to maintain would be required. HTH and best wishes to B.
As with Thevet can't add much more except I don't think he's ahd enough fluids and that's why he's not urinating, only other reason is if his kidneys packed up completely. Just for maintenance alone he'd need 4.5 litres per day, if dehydrated he's need at at least twice this in 24hrs.
Add to this I cannot believe a vet cannot catheterise a male dog, this is the most basic of skills in veterinary medicine and commonly carried out by qualified veterinary nurses here.
Add to this I cannot believe a vet cannot catheterise a male dog, this is the most basic of skills in veterinary medicine and commonly carried out by qualified veterinary nurses here.
quick update , we drove Bonza to the main vets , he was completly flat out and unresponsive for the journey ,completly asleep
The vets were excellent they performed an ECG which showed his heart rate was normal ,and then checked his response to light , which was unresponsive in a comotose state
, They removed urine from his bladder , which was around 2 litres and then gave him 3 different drips ,one of which was for his liver , the other to stimulate urination.
they have agreed to keep him at the vets for treatment for 5 days which is a great relief
The vet commented that he looks like he has had a very heavy dose of sleeping tablets ??
Will wait now and see how things progress , Have to say very impressed with the treatment , the bill for last night was around 40 pounds with 3 Vets working on him and performing the tests ,
The vets were excellent they performed an ECG which showed his heart rate was normal ,and then checked his response to light , which was unresponsive in a comotose state
, They removed urine from his bladder , which was around 2 litres and then gave him 3 different drips ,one of which was for his liver , the other to stimulate urination.
they have agreed to keep him at the vets for treatment for 5 days which is a great relief
The vet commented that he looks like he has had a very heavy dose of sleeping tablets ??
Will wait now and see how things progress , Have to say very impressed with the treatment , the bill for last night was around 40 pounds with 3 Vets working on him and performing the tests ,
Not sure about the sleeping tablet idea, you should know if he had access to any such medication. As I said before, there is no real reason to catheterise his bladder unless it was blocked, but I suppose they will now have some urine to test for specific gravity to assess some kidney function. The progession to a comatose state is not particularly encouraging, although the heart assessment is good. If the blood results are mostly normal, then the "poisoning" idea becomes more feasible. I'm glad that he is being kept in at the vets for hospitalised therapy, and amazed at the cost, maybe it would be worthwhile more people flying to Siberia for their vet treatment, wonder if Ryanair go there 
Hope the news is good soon.
Hope the news is good soon.
Jasandjules said:
Do any of your neighbours hate him?
Just wondering if someone has thrown him a bit of meat with something in it? Or perhaps even a prospective burglar?
unfortunately , this was my immediate thought , it would be easy to do , however the vet said you would expect to see vomitting and diarrea if poisoned unless someone had used vast quantaties of sleeping pills ?? he has shown none of these signs.Just wondering if someone has thrown him a bit of meat with something in it? Or perhaps even a prospective burglar?
,His sysmptoms are " semi comotose" sleeping , minimal reaction to light , physical analysis showed enlarged liver , kidneys , scan showed colic in liver inflamation of liver , enlarged gall bladder , infection in urine , the reason the Catheter was sugested by the vet was because of the amount of fluid intravenously injected without passing urine ,however he is a large dog and maybe his bladder was simply not full enough .
from what I can translate from Russian ,Blood analysis showed more white cells than red. HB 115GM per litre .Creatin 111 EL (normal 5-100.)Bilirubin 45.3 normal range 0.9-10.6
Diagnosis of liver condition :liver coma
The vet did indicate that the next few days treatment will be crucial to see if the liver can be treated ,
Hepatitis of unknown origin, could be toxic(poison) but more likely to be viral. Mostly treatment revolves around supportive therapy to hopefully allow the liver to recover, of which it is capable of amazing regeneration. BUT.....outcome is very much in the balance, hepatitis can be very serious. I'm sorry that I can't be more upbeat but the cause is still unclear and the outcome is equally so. Wishing you the best
Thevet said:
Hepatitis of unknown origin, could be toxic(poison) but more likely to be viral. Mostly treatment revolves around supportive therapy to hopefully allow the liver to recover, of which it is capable of amazing regeneration. BUT.....outcome is very much in the balance, hepatitis can be very serious. I'm sorry that I can't be more upbeat but the cause is still unclear and the outcome is equally so. Wishing you the best
Actually, I was thinking in the alternative to poison something like a bladder infection as the symptoms are almost identical to what one of my mutts exhibited - we had scans and all sorts done before they decided it was just an infection (much talk from them of putting her to sleep due to her age and thinking it was a chronic renal and liver failure). But I think she had quite a temp which the OP's poochie doesn't appear to have?!?!
Still OP I do hope it all works out well in the end.
well , after 3 days at the vets we got a call yesterday morning , hes woken up and wont let anyone near him ,
So off we went to pick him up , Bonza was on his feet and looking very "pissed off" .. he wouldn't let the vets near him and gave me a good growl, so took a bit of time talking to him and calming him down before he recognised me , and as the wife approached he took a swipe at my arm , ( hes very protective of the ladies ) , We got some special food in him and then he sat down again and wanted to sleep , so on went the muzzle and we carried him into the vets for 3 more drips,and injections,
Well there was no choice but to take him back home with a huge list of medication and special diet food , as the vets simply couldn't get near him to put drips on , as he had my whole arm in his jaws I kind of see they have a point !!
Overall the bill , for 3 days treatment came to 120 pounds , which is fantastic , I calculated that they had spent over 20 hours of treatment with 3 vets , just when we were there !!.
The dietry food is very expensive and very hard to get in Russia , Royal Canine Hepatic at 4 pounds for a single tin ( Bonza needs 4 tins a day !! ) , we only managed to buy 6 tins and 1 x 12kg bag of dog meal at 60 pounds !! So have ordered 2 months supply , hopefully after this and if he survives we can start a fresh meat ,soup , dog meal diet which will be cheaper , any suggestions would be apreciated
The other issue was medication , I could'nt believe the amount of drugs that we could buy over the counter , bags of syringes ,various bottle drips of glucose ,intravenous feeds , medication ampules to treat liver , and vitamin , supplements.
As the local vet is very busy The wife and I recieved a crash course in inserting Intravenous drip feeds to adminster Bonza's medication and giving injections, it was a bit daunting , but really there is no option and Bonza is far happier at home awake sitting up and with the cats , So we will continue and see how things develop. the good news is he is now eating again.
So off we went to pick him up , Bonza was on his feet and looking very "pissed off" .. he wouldn't let the vets near him and gave me a good growl, so took a bit of time talking to him and calming him down before he recognised me , and as the wife approached he took a swipe at my arm , ( hes very protective of the ladies ) , We got some special food in him and then he sat down again and wanted to sleep , so on went the muzzle and we carried him into the vets for 3 more drips,and injections,
Well there was no choice but to take him back home with a huge list of medication and special diet food , as the vets simply couldn't get near him to put drips on , as he had my whole arm in his jaws I kind of see they have a point !!
Overall the bill , for 3 days treatment came to 120 pounds , which is fantastic , I calculated that they had spent over 20 hours of treatment with 3 vets , just when we were there !!.
The dietry food is very expensive and very hard to get in Russia , Royal Canine Hepatic at 4 pounds for a single tin ( Bonza needs 4 tins a day !! ) , we only managed to buy 6 tins and 1 x 12kg bag of dog meal at 60 pounds !! So have ordered 2 months supply , hopefully after this and if he survives we can start a fresh meat ,soup , dog meal diet which will be cheaper , any suggestions would be apreciated
The other issue was medication , I could'nt believe the amount of drugs that we could buy over the counter , bags of syringes ,various bottle drips of glucose ,intravenous feeds , medication ampules to treat liver , and vitamin , supplements.
As the local vet is very busy The wife and I recieved a crash course in inserting Intravenous drip feeds to adminster Bonza's medication and giving injections, it was a bit daunting , but really there is no option and Bonza is far happier at home awake sitting up and with the cats , So we will continue and see how things develop. the good news is he is now eating again.
bexVN said:
Blimey, what an ordeal!! At least being a big dog you are not likely to over infuse him!! Well done for taking on the challenge and good luck, fingers crossed for him..and you.
Did they give you signs to look for if probs with the drip e.g. blown vein/ air in the line?
Yes , however we still find it tricky checking and double checking that no air is in the syringe , hopefully the local vet will be along later to check on Bonza , Its taken quite a toll , getting up at 5:45 spending an hour on Bonzas medication , then rushing to work ( 2hr drive )and getting home around 9pm for evening session , Unfortunately we are back in the UK in a weeks time so trying to get as much time with Bonza before we come back , We have a good neighbour who is going to take on the duties still a worry though. Did they give you signs to look for if probs with the drip e.g. blown vein/ air in the line?
DBSV8 said:
bexVN said:
Blimey, what an ordeal!! At least being a big dog you are not likely to over infuse him!! Well done for taking on the challenge and good luck, fingers crossed for him..and you.
Did they give you signs to look for if probs with the drip e.g. blown vein/ air in the line?
Yes , however we still find it tricky checking and double checking that no air is in the syringe , hopefully the local vet will be along later to check on Bonza , Its taken quite a toll , getting up at 5:45 spending an hour on Bonzas medication , then rushing to work ( 2hr drive )and getting home around 9pm for evening session , Unfortunately we are back in the UK in a weeks time so trying to get as much time with Bonza before we come back , We have a good neighbour who is going to take on the duties still a worry though. Did they give you signs to look for if probs with the drip e.g. blown vein/ air in the line?
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