If you like garden birds should you get rid of magpies?

[nomisesor]

As the title - we like the goldfinches, various tits, blackcaps, blackbirds, thrushes, redwings & fieldfares (those two in deep winter), greenfinches, robins, goldcrests, wrens, chaffinches, dunnocks, collared doves and very occasional bullfinches, greater spotted & green woodpeckers which visit the garden and feeders, but what should we do about the magpies & squirrels? The last two are said to cause major loss of smaller garden birds. Should we assassinate them - quick, humane and easy with a 0.22 air rifle - to save the littler birds from predation - or, given that we've inadvertently fed them through the winter along with the smaller birds, woodpidgeon and jackdaws (jackdaws I excuse) - decide that they're to be protected?

PS Cats don't enter into this discussion.

[uk_vette]

The .22 I had did a good job.
However, I always had to make sure I could get a good shot, some I couldn't so they were the lucky one's, and aim right in the chest.
Also, the bird would have to be in the tree, closest, too far, and I am sure, not enough energy in the pellet to kill.
I would collect the dead bird, and put it on the roof of the garage, for all the other Magpie, egg stealing vermin to see.

That should warn them off.

'vette

[bexVN]

I don't know but if anyone has an answer other than shooting I'd be interested, they pester one of my cats and have scared off many of the songbirds snd are stil growing numbers. (Cats and song birds lived quite harmoniously until magpie numbers went through the roof (or sky!)

[paintman]

Larsen trap. But you will need a live decoy bird. And you then have the problem about what to do with the ones you've caught.
http://www.trapman.co.uk/metal-larsen-trap.htm
http://www.birdcare.com/birdon/birdcare/tipsheets/...

[Japveesix]

Don't use a Larsen. You legally need to check it every day (at least once), they also catch all sorts of protected birds (which can lead to serious fines etc if you get caught) and you need to get a live bird from somewhere and then leave it in the trap - which is fairly inhumane in itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9uJbS-sIws&fea...

If you muust then your best bet is to scare them off regularly to dissuade them from settling (they hate loud noises, unexpected movement/noise etc) and provide secure nest boxes for your other birds; magpies can't eat eggs/chicks that they can't get too.

Make your bird table only suitable for smaller birds (cover or anti-squirrel cage etc) and don't leave too many scraps around that will encourage magpies in.

[paintman]

^^^^
Which is what it says in the links.

[Japveesix]

paintman said:

^^^^
Which is what it says in the links.

Thanks for that...

One link shows where to buy them the other is so wordy its difficult to garner any useful info from it.

Your post puts forward the Larsen as a solution to Ops magpie problem. My post, purely my opinion, was to highlight that Larsen traps are not a sensible thing to use in gardens.

[Longwool]

If you are serious about reducing magpie population then a Larsen trap is the only really effective method. Magpies are pretty clever, take a long time to make much impact with an air rifle.

If you are in a country area and know the "community" you should be able to source your first Magpie without too much problem.

[henrycrun]

I wrote to the RSBP about removing a magpie nest a few years ago. They said that as magpies each have their own territory, a new pair would just move in straight away.

[nomisesor]

A Larsen is very effective (I've read) but you'd then get attached to your decoy bird and I'd probably not be able to bump off its companions - magpies (or Magenpies) are said to be good pets. There are anecdotal reports of songbird numbers increasing rapidly when magpies are reduced, but as others have said, it may be that assassinating them in one garden would have minimal effect.
Re. magpie-proofing feeders - currently they can only get at stuff on the table and suet ball holders - which they cling onto (I wouldn't have thought it worthwhile given the effort and small yield) but it is unfortunate that that might make the difference in a cold winter and help them to survive 'till the spring, eggs and chicks become available.
For the moment I'll hold my son & his .22 at bay...

[racing green]

Surely predators are there for a reason, to remove the sick and weak and make the strong stronger. Recently saw something about Sparrowhawks that had a similar vein. All the fluffy birds aren't suddenly going to die out because of a few predators and its not like they have suddenly appeared. They have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. If you start upsetting the balance of nature to suit one type then other problems unseen will appear. Loathe them if you want but Magpies have just as much right to life and they keep all the ickle birdies on their toes! By the way we have had thirty four bird species in the surrounding square mile around my house this month including Magpies, Buzzards, Kestrels, Tawny and Little Owls, Carrion Crows and Herons - all of them predators. They have had no effect on the Finches, Tits, Sparrows et al. Feed your birds, give them water and nesting boxes and keep them healthy. Its all about balance

[bexVN]

racing green said:

Surely predators are there for a reason, to remove the sick and weak and make the strong stronger. Recently saw something about Sparrowhawks that had a similar vein. All the fluffy birds aren't suddenly going to die out because of a few predators and its not like they have suddenly appeared. They have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. If you start upsetting the balance of nature to suit one type then other problems unseen will appear. Loathe them if you want but Magpies have just as much right to life and they keep all the ickle birdies on their toes! By the way we have had thirty four bird species in the surrounding square mile around my house this month including Magpies, Buzzards, Kestrels, Tawny and Little Owls, Carrion Crows and Herons - all of them predators. They have had no effect on the Finches, Tits, Sparrows et al. Feed your birds, give them water and nesting boxes and keep them healthy. Its all about balance

I actually do get natures ways but for whatever reason the balance has changed around my area over recent years. We have had sparrowhawks coming in and taking the occasional songbird and I would be fine with the magpies except for the fact that they seemed to have taken over our area plus the fact they surround one of my cats whenever she goes outside, which isn't for long. I don't want to kill them off, that is not my way but to move them off would be my ideal.

[paintman]

Problem is that even with catch & then release them a long way away you will simply get others move into the territory.
Recently we had 15 of them sitting on the roofs of neighbouring houses

[CDP]

My cat handles the magpies for me so I don't have to worry about them eating the smaller birds...

[tenex]

racing green said:

Surely predators are there for a reason, to remove the sick and weak and make the strong stronger. Recently saw something about Sparrowhawks that had a similar vein. All the fluffy birds aren't suddenly going to die out because of a few predators and its not like they have suddenly appeared. They have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years. If you start upsetting the balance of nature to suit one type then other problems unseen will appear. Loathe them if you want but Magpies have just as much right to life and they keep all the ickle birdies on their toes! By the way we have had thirty four bird species in the surrounding square mile around my house this month including Magpies, Buzzards, Kestrels, Tawny and Little Owls, Carrion Crows and Herons - all of them predators. They have had no effect on the Finches, Tits, Sparrows et al. Feed your birds, give them water and nesting boxes and keep them healthy. Its all about balance

Up here (Scottish Highlands) the thousands of rabbits in this area disappeared about 10 years ago due to a very bad outbreak of myxy and viral septicemia. This left a large population of predators without prey and as a result the ground nesting bird population crashed. Lapwings,curlews,oystercatchers, yellowhammers and meadow pipits are now extinct on my patch whereas they used to be commonplace.
The tit,wheatear and wagtail population are just hanging on.The hen harrier has also gone.
However, the predator population has now crashed. I don't see the stoats, weasels and hedgehogs anymore,a visiting goshawk virtually wiped out the sparrow hawks (unfortunately it also wiped out the long eared owls) and the mouse and vole population has exploded( much to the kestrel's delight) The wheatears and tits are recovering but as long as the buzzard keeps nesting where it does the waders stand no chance.
So the bio diversity of my small patch has changed completely in the last 10 years and will no doubt change in the next 10.
I just wish the "powers that be" made slightly more enlightened decisions when it comes to what you can and can't do.
There are no magpies up here. Long may it last. There is enough vermin as it is and as long as bird species are trying to recover from such a low baselines, they will be controlled.

Edited by tenex on Sunday 27th February 08:27

[Japveesix]

tenex said:

a visiting goshawk virtually wiped out the sparrow hawks (unfortunately it also wiped out the long eared owls)

I won't pick apart your entire post because you're obviously passionate about wildlife (if a tad confused) which is a great thing but in 2000 (last reliable estimates) there were thought to be over 40,000 sparrowhawks in the UK compared to 400 odd goshawks. Populations of both have undoubtadly risen since then but you should be thrilled if you even saw a goshawk

For the record long-eared owls were around 2,500 in 2000.

Ps. you must spend a huge amount of time in the field to know that stoat and weasel populations have collapsed as both are incredibly difficult to see and often go overlooked. Also if the mouse and vole population has "exploded" the weasel population would have risen with it.

[tenex]

Japveesix, I'm permanently confused.

It was being suggested that magpies would have no effect on the bird population.
I was only relating my observations of the effects predators can have on the bio-diversity of a given area.

PS. Yes, I spend hours every day out and about.
Yes, the weasel and stoat population is now virtually non-existant.

[racing green]

It seems we are all misunderstood cos I never meant that the Magpies would have no effect on bird population but that in nature there is a balance and that if Magpies are many then there must be the food source for them. For most of the time they feed on insects, grain and by scavenging already dead animals and rubbish from towns. Chicks and eggs are a secondary addition to their diet in Spring and Summer. The original poster was worried about Magpies causing problems for the smaller birds AND was worried about their cat. In real terms having a resident Sparrowhawk would cause just as much problems as do cats themselves (I have three who fortunately are rubbish at bird catching). Perhaps the biggest concern for me would be loss of nesting sites and habitat caused by building projects and being to tidy in the garden. Removal of Nettles (a major food source for many butterflies), Brambles and Ivy together with planting non native trees in preference to exotics and Leylandii have caused much of the problem. Also poor water availability and newly built houses which are not bird nest friendly don't help. There is no one simple answer or solution to these problems. For my part I have never seen so many Tits, Finches, Sparrows, Pigeons, Jackdaws and Blackbirds as I have this last two years.

[nomisesor]

racing green said:

It seems we are all misunderstood cos I never meant that the Magpies would have no effect on bird population but that in nature there is a balance and that if Magpies are many then there must be the food source for them. For most of the time they feed on insects, grain and by scavenging already dead animals and rubbish from towns. Chicks and eggs are a secondary addition to their diet in Spring and Summer. The original poster was worried about Magpies causing problems for the smaller birds AND was worried about their cat. In real terms having a resident Sparrowhawk would cause just as much problems as do cats themselves (I have three who fortunately are rubbish at bird catching). Perhaps the biggest concern for me would be loss of nesting sites and habitat caused by building projects and being to tidy in the garden. Removal of Nettles (a major food source for many butterflies), Brambles and Ivy together with planting non native trees in preference to exotics and Leylandii have caused much of the problem. Also poor water availability and newly built houses which are not bird nest friendly don't help. There is no one simple answer or solution to these problems. For my part I have never seen so many Tits, Finches, Sparrows, Pigeons, Jackdaws and Blackbirds as I have this last two years.

Don't have a cat - I like them and we had two many years ago, but our indoor and (out of their cages when we're around) birds (cockatiel, canary, and rescued birds - zebra finch and chaffinch) wouldn't enjoy the cat attention. I just put the bit about cats to try to confine it to magpies rather than the arguably greater predation caused by cats - but you can't do anything about that except not to keep one yourself!

[Scraggles]

used to have lots of birds visit the garden and then a couple of lads moved in a few doors away with a bundle of cats, bird population dropped by 90%, but they have worked out that whilst pigeons can be taken though the cat flap, they get loose and st all over the house knocking stuff over

so we get loads of fking pigeons, lots of cat st in the garden and next to no song birds