Discussion
Right all.
Moving back to Shropshire soon to take over a campsite, and we thought we might as well embrace the countryside...by killing some of it!
Only joking. While unlikely to get into shooting itself, we have agreed that we'd both like a springer. Now, being thoroughbreds, they are expensive, and you have to be careful where you buy them from - not before 7 weeks, view the dam at the very least, any one of a myriad of other things to watch out for...but which ones are important? Chipping I assume I can do myself, but tail docking? Is it necessary? So, some questions there.
Can anyone here recommend a reputable place to buy them from? There seems to be a zillion (approx.) places to buy springer pups, they all say this and that, and that and this, but how do you *know*?
Also, can anyone recommend a trainer. It's important to get it correct right off the bat. I think I can handle with training them to 'sit' and 'down', but I'd also like the dog to have gundog training. It's what they're bred for, and the more obediant they are, the more exercise you can give them, as you know they will come back!
Thanks for replies in advance.
Moving back to Shropshire soon to take over a campsite, and we thought we might as well embrace the countryside...by killing some of it!
Only joking. While unlikely to get into shooting itself, we have agreed that we'd both like a springer. Now, being thoroughbreds, they are expensive, and you have to be careful where you buy them from - not before 7 weeks, view the dam at the very least, any one of a myriad of other things to watch out for...but which ones are important? Chipping I assume I can do myself, but tail docking? Is it necessary? So, some questions there.
Can anyone here recommend a reputable place to buy them from? There seems to be a zillion (approx.) places to buy springer pups, they all say this and that, and that and this, but how do you *know*?
Also, can anyone recommend a trainer. It's important to get it correct right off the bat. I think I can handle with training them to 'sit' and 'down', but I'd also like the dog to have gundog training. It's what they're bred for, and the more obediant they are, the more exercise you can give them, as you know they will come back!
Thanks for replies in advance.
Firstly you've made a great choice, Springers are fantastic dogs.
Secondly have you thought about rehoming a young dog instead? This link is to a north west rehoming charity but it should give you an idea of what's out there, although they usually have more available TBH
http://www.englishspringerrescue.org.uk/dogs-needi...
Anyway good luck finding one and make sure you post up some photos!
Secondly have you thought about rehoming a young dog instead? This link is to a north west rehoming charity but it should give you an idea of what's out there, although they usually have more available TBH
http://www.englishspringerrescue.org.uk/dogs-needi...
Anyway good luck finding one and make sure you post up some photos!
Springer's are the breed the gundog club get the most calls for help about.
Training a working dog is very hard work and means you cant do things like play tug of war with it (induces hard mouth). Additionally every time you take it out needs to be under controlled circumstances especially at a young age and means you cant really walk it like most people do ie roaming free off the lead. It also means you have to tolerate and actually praise it for retrieving things in the house like shoes and tv remotes etc.
A well trained and good mannered pet is anther thing altogether although most springers I've met have been a bit loopy.
Training a working dog is very hard work and means you cant do things like play tug of war with it (induces hard mouth). Additionally every time you take it out needs to be under controlled circumstances especially at a young age and means you cant really walk it like most people do ie roaming free off the lead. It also means you have to tolerate and actually praise it for retrieving things in the house like shoes and tv remotes etc.
A well trained and good mannered pet is anther thing altogether although most springers I've met have been a bit loopy.
The link to the gundog club below might be of interest to you. They have a classifieds section and also do various staged training awards at venues around the UK. The puppy training manual they do is brilliant, loads of info on instilling good recall etc from an early age. Also it might be worth while speaking to a local gundog club as they may know of a litter from a reputable breeder planned for the summer.
Springers can be great dogs but from memory you need to be careful which lines you choose as some are easier to train than others. In the HPR world ( I have a GSP and had a GWP wirehaired pointer) rory major in lincolnshire is the man for training, I guess he might be able to offer advice to you too as I think he also covers other gundogs, if you wanted a cocker I'd have suggested you speak to sharon pinkerton at bareve kennels also lincolnshire way.
http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/
Springers can be great dogs but from memory you need to be careful which lines you choose as some are easier to train than others. In the HPR world ( I have a GSP and had a GWP wirehaired pointer) rory major in lincolnshire is the man for training, I guess he might be able to offer advice to you too as I think he also covers other gundogs, if you wanted a cocker I'd have suggested you speak to sharon pinkerton at bareve kennels also lincolnshire way.
http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/
I don't think you will be able to get it's tail docked if you don't work it. There is no tail docking here in Scotland (Bloody stupid)
I've posted this advice before.
Certainly go for working strains.Springers are generally easier than cockers and don't be swayed by too many FTCH/FTW in the pedigree.These are the trials dogs and are the F1 cars of the dog world and can be a bit of a handful for the novice.
Pikeyboy's advice is pretty sound as well.
I've posted this advice before.
Certainly go for working strains.Springers are generally easier than cockers and don't be swayed by too many FTCH/FTW in the pedigree.These are the trials dogs and are the F1 cars of the dog world and can be a bit of a handful for the novice.
Pikeyboy's advice is pretty sound as well.
tenex said:
I don't think you will be able to get it's tail docked if you don't work it. There is no tail docking here in Scotland (Bloody stupid)
I've posted this advice before.
Certainly go for working strains.Springers are generally easier than cockers and don't be swayed by too many FTCH/FTW in the pedigree.These are the trials dogs and are the F1 cars of the dog world and can be a bit of a handful for the novice.
Pikeyboy's advice is pretty sound as well.
The breeder decides at upto 3 days old (IIRC) whether they want them docking or not. To get them docked "legally" the breeder needs to prove they are likely to be worked to the vet, ie breeder has a shot gun certificate. All legally docked dogs will be micro chipped and have a copy of the form from the vet, its one of the requirements. Its not cruel and doesnt hurt as the eyes are still closed at that age and prevents much more painful problems later in life if they get broken tails. I've posted this advice before.
Certainly go for working strains.Springers are generally easier than cockers and don't be swayed by too many FTCH/FTW in the pedigree.These are the trials dogs and are the F1 cars of the dog world and can be a bit of a handful for the novice.
Pikeyboy's advice is pretty sound as well.
Dew claws are the also often removed to prevent them being ripped out, I imnagine this is a common problem with spaniels due to the nature of how they are usually used to get deep in the undergrowth/cover to flush out.
As has been said choose wisley as some dogs can be very highly strung and always on the go hunting. Spaniels and labs are like the mondeo and vectras of the K9 world plenty to choose from so speak to loads of people, meet both sire and dam and also other previous pups if possible to gauge an idea what kind of temperament they'll have.
Also worth considering GSP's or any of the other HPR breeds as they make great dogs pets/workers. Mine is just having a rebelious teenage phase at the moment (as all dogs do from ~ 6 months to a year/18 months )and is staring to need quite a lot of correction but we are working at it and I'm sure she'll be great. There are about 70 odd german FTch in her pedigree and her sire is the brother of germanys top stud dog so she should turn out pretty good if I dont strangle her first.
pikeyboy said:
The breeder decides at upto 3 days old (IIRC) whether they want them docking or not. To get them docked "legally" the breeder needs to prove they are likely to be worked to the vet, ie breeder has a shot gun certificate. All legally docked dogs will be micro chipped and have a copy of the form from the vet, its one of the requirements. Its not cruel and doesnt hurt as the eyes are still closed at that age and prevents much more painful problems later in life if they get broken tails.
Dew claws are the also often removed to prevent them being ripped out, I imnagine this is a common problem with spaniels due to the nature of how they are usually used to get deep in the undergrowth/cover to flush out.
Oh! Pikeyboy don't get me started Dew claws are the also often removed to prevent them being ripped out, I imnagine this is a common problem with spaniels due to the nature of how they are usually used to get deep in the undergrowth/cover to flush out.
Removal of rear dewclaws is a must and vets will happily do it.No tails though.
I now know of 7 working dogs that have had to get their tails amputated as adults due to injury,mainly cockers.
I have to dock the tails of my lambs and castrate them.That's OK as well.....
Enough.
OP. Good luck with your Springer. Bottom line is that your training has a far greater influence on the dog's behaviour than it's breeding, although it helps to get the correct "basic ingredient."
Good advice there, thanks. Is this the manual you were talking about?
http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/Training...
...it also seems that Grade 1 & 2 might apply too.
http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/Training...
...it also seems that Grade 1 & 2 might apply too.
Tonsko said:
Good advice there, thanks. Is this the manual you were talking about?
http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/Training...
...it also seems that Grade 1 & 2 might apply too.
yeah they're the ones, some excellent info in them for you.http://www.thegundogclub.co.uk/shop/books/Training...
...it also seems that Grade 1 & 2 might apply too.
I've ordered those books (thanks) and am now looking around for a puppy. Have found one quite close to me, 1 of a litter of 2. Off to see him in a week or two and then (hopefully) onto a purchase when he's ready (5th may - was born on 24th feb). He will be chipped and vacc'd. The lady has said that someone else is interested, but nothing serious yet. She will let me know if someone does show serious interest.
The dam has had both eye tests, but no hip or fuco tests. The Sire is said to be easily trained. One point of note - on the kennel club he's showing as a cocker, but he's clearly a springer (he's on gundog site as one, and has field trials and what have you). Should I be worried about that?
The lady is an accredited breeder on the KC site, and has a rosette next to her name - I guess that's because she has advertised and sold more than 5 litters.
Anything else I should be looking for? He will be trained as a pet rather than as a worker. Prev. advice acepted about no t bothering with the extra training unless he will be worked.
The dam has had both eye tests, but no hip or fuco tests. The Sire is said to be easily trained. One point of note - on the kennel club he's showing as a cocker, but he's clearly a springer (he's on gundog site as one, and has field trials and what have you). Should I be worried about that?
The lady is an accredited breeder on the KC site, and has a rosette next to her name - I guess that's because she has advertised and sold more than 5 litters.
Anything else I should be looking for? He will be trained as a pet rather than as a worker. Prev. advice acepted about no t bothering with the extra training unless he will be worked.
I have two Springers - Alfie who is of working stock, tail docked, heavy build, muscular and obedient to a fault and who was purchased at 8 weeks. Paddy came to me at six months as a rescue, much lighter build, long tail and mostly obedient. A number of times Paddy's tail has caused him problems. It would have been much better docked as although I don't 'work' them they do spend all day at work with me on the estate I manage. I couldn't imagine any other breed for me as obedience is key and they are such biddable dogs. The importance of training at a young age cannot be stressed and lessons once learned will lead to a special bond between you. Unfortunately there are plenty of basket case rescue Springers out there where owners have not taken this on board. The fact that the training time is comparitively short means it should never be a chore and pays so many dividends later on. You have made a good choice of breed, I hope you have fun. By the way once you have the measure of the first you may think it nice to have another and two are not much more work than one and they will become great friends.
racing green said:
I have two Springers - Alfie who is of working stock, tail docked, heavy build, muscular and obedient to a fault and who was purchased at 8 weeks. Paddy came to me at six months as a rescue, much lighter build, long tail and mostly obedient. A number of times Paddy's tail has caused him problems. It would have been much better docked as although I don't 'work' them they do spend all day at work with me on the estate I manage. I couldn't imagine any other breed for me as obedience is key and they are such biddable dogs. The importance of training at a young age cannot be stressed and lessons once learned will lead to a special bond between you. Unfortunately there are plenty of basket case rescue Springers out there where owners have not taken this on board. The fact that the training time is comparitively short means it should never be a chore and pays so many dividends later on. You have made a good choice of breed, I hope you have fun. By the way once you have the measure of the first you may think it nice to have another and two are not much more work than one and they will become great friends.
Do they respond best to one 'master' or does it not matter if you treat him the same - what I mean is that we (g/f and I) have decided together to get him. The plan is to both read those books (above), discuss it and go from there. Will that work ok d'you think?Tonsko said:
racing green said:
I have two Springers - Alfie who is of working stock, tail docked, heavy build, muscular and obedient to a fault and who was purchased at 8 weeks. Paddy came to me at six months as a rescue, much lighter build, long tail and mostly obedient. A number of times Paddy's tail has caused him problems. It would have been much better docked as although I don't 'work' them they do spend all day at work with me on the estate I manage. I couldn't imagine any other breed for me as obedience is key and they are such biddable dogs. The importance of training at a young age cannot be stressed and lessons once learned will lead to a special bond between you. Unfortunately there are plenty of basket case rescue Springers out there where owners have not taken this on board. The fact that the training time is comparitively short means it should never be a chore and pays so many dividends later on. You have made a good choice of breed, I hope you have fun. By the way once you have the measure of the first you may think it nice to have another and two are not much more work than one and they will become great friends.
Do they respond best to one 'master' or does it not matter if you treat him the same - what I mean is that we (g/f and I) have decided together to get him. The plan is to both read those books (above), discuss it and go from there. Will that work ok d'you think?Consistency between you is very important.
If more people took heed of Racing Green's excellent advice, Mrs Grumpy et al. would be virtually out of a job.
I must admit, I'm a little apprehensive about training. It seems like you have got one real chance to get it right when the dog is a pup - mess it up and it could be tough to come back from. My dad suggested that I get a rescue Springer - and while I agree with it in principle, I'm a little concerned that all the learned behaviours the rescue dog might have might be tough to iron out if they are undesirable. Might be best to go for that option when I have more experience.
If you are going to Shropshire then Rytex are great breeders of springers. http://www.rytexgundogs.com/
Tonsko said:
I must admit, I'm a little apprehensive about training. It seems like you have got one real chance to get it right when the dog is a pup - mess it up and it could be tough to come back from. My dad suggested that I get a rescue Springer - and while I agree with it in principle, I'm a little concerned that all the learned behaviours the rescue dog might have might be tough to iron out if they are undesirable. Might be best to go for that option when I have more experience.
OP. With an attitude like that you'll go far. 
Training a new pup (with inbred intelligence) is not that difficult.
Training a rescue dog or some inbred "Kennel Club Idiot" is a different matter requiring the patience of Job and a huge amount of expertise. As always I have the highest admiration for the people that can.
However their methods do not necessarily need to be applied to the new pup.
I train working spaniels(not for a living). Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions,although
boy and Racing Green have given very good advice as well.Good Luck.
ETA
Apologies. I didn't swear.
Edited by tenex on Saturday 2nd April 21:00
Puppy over rescue Springer any day if you have that choice! Three points to bare in mind - 1 All puppies but especially Springers will benefit from CONSISTENCY, in training, feeding and your attitude! 2 Be strict but not harsh, there's nothing worse than a nervous Spaniel and treats such as a ball and chews are for GOOD behaviour. 3 Confidence - Springers feed off the confidence their owner gives them. If you are confident, happy and love your dog this will be mirrored back by a Springer. Don't worry about the training, just get on with it as you see fit. Its as much like raising kids as anything I can think. Enjoy
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