Cocker Spaniels - recommended breeders/advice?

Cocker Spaniels - recommended breeders/advice?

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Sway

Original Poster:

29,305 posts

201 months

Wednesday 4th September
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Due to our boy Merlin (GSD x Collie) getting towards the final trip to the vets (aggressive soft tissue tumour on his shoulder, gutting as he still acts like a puppy at 11, but it'll be the thing that in the not too distant future means we'll have to make the call for his own good), we've realised we can't go too long without a dog sharing our lives...



Don't want another dog like Merlin, for whatever reason it'd feel like a betrayal or replacement. So, we're thinking cocker spaniel.

We've never had a puppy from a proper breeder before (Merlin was a 'friend rescue' after owner passed away too soon, and very unexpectedly) - we tried a working border collie pup from a farmer I worked with many years ago, and that was a very stupid idea! Fortunately we realised it, and she went an lived an amazing life with an ex-Marine working for the Forestry Commission.

So, what do we need to know, and any recommendations for breeders? Thinking of planning now for perhaps a year's time.

We're both at home pretty much the whole time (I wfh, with some business travel. Mrs doesn't work). Lots of excellent outside space - miles and miles of fields within walking distance, village green outside the house, small back garden.

I'm pretty active outside, Mrs is more restricted due to variable impact disability, but we're both committed and comfortable in providing good exercise opportunities (but not to proper working border collie levels!) and plenty of training. Both like the idea of organised fun like fly ball or agility.

Ideal would be a dog that can be velcro - going out with us wherever we go, cuddling up on the sofa, curling up under my desk. One that has some energy to prompt our exercise too, and can join in on our hobbies like paddleboarding. Highly trainable, very rare I feel the need to put Merlin on a lead (although do when on any pavement situation).

Tips/tricks/things to watch out for?

Any recommendations for breeders - realise we probably need to be talking to the better breeders now to think of a dog in a year or 18 months?

Mrs Sway has set her heart on caramel/reddish coat, but she's not daft enough to put that above other considerations. Probably a bh, mainly due to being different to Merlin.

Pic of Merlin to counter the wall of text!



moorx

3,930 posts

121 months

Wednesday 4th September
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Sorry to hear about Merlin.

Probably the first decision you need to make is whether you want a Working or Show Type Cocker. They are very different beasts!

We had the pleasure of sharing 7 years of our lives with Rosie, a Show Type Cocker, and only lost her a couple of months ago frown

She was an ex-puppy farm breeding bh who we adopted from a local rescue centre. They estimated her age as 3 but we think she was probably older.

She wouldn't really have met your requirements (apart, maybe, from her colouring). She would happily trundle along for miles, but would have found activities like flyball or agility far too overwhelming. Because of her background, she wasn't necessarily your typical Show Type Cocker, though. She was okay with people she knew well but was very nervous of strangers.

The kind of lifestyle you are describing may suit a Working Cocker better.

I am a big rescue advocate, and it is possible that you would find a suitable dog in rescue (I should imagine Working Cockers do tend to be given up when people realise they've taken on more than they can handle). I have heard good things about this rescue in the past:

https://www.caessr.org.uk/

But equally, I can understand why you might prefer a pup from a reputable breeder.

A photo of Rosie, just because...



Best of luck.

Sway

Original Poster:

29,305 posts

201 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Oh, she's gorgeous!

We're really struggling with 'show vs working' types, and think are forming an opinion there's a bit of a Venn diagram of energy levels with a decent amount of overlap - as in 'pet' bloodline working types, and very energetic shows?

I'm certainly not going to pretend or delude myself that we're up for hour plus walks a day. Absolutely can commit to 'some' exercise everyday even if that's the Mrs taking it to play fetch with a ball on the village green. She's also really good at making sure they get mental stimulation too.

Pre-tumour, Merlin would get at least 3 long (hour or so) walks a week, mostly off lead on footpaths through fields/local vineyard, but he never learned how to 'play' as a pup which has always been a bit sad. So that's a good baseline.

Flyball/agility - not something we've ever done, but definitely like the idea and there's a couple of groups nearby. Guess they're a weekly type thing, not sure we'd commit to actually taking it seriously enough to go to competitions and stuff though!

Ultimately, want a dog that can fit into our lifestyle - and complement it.

Thanks for the tip on rescue, and that's certainly the approach we've always taken - but I think this time we'd like the experience of a 'proper' puppy, from a 'proper' breeder (give zero sts about papers, do care about focus on early weeks cognitive and socialisation programmes, truly care about health screening).

Challo

10,826 posts

162 months

Wednesday 4th September
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Sorry to hear about Merlin.

We have a spring spaniel cross, called Aubrey who we have had from a puppy. His mum was was a Springer Spaniel who came from a travellers camp, and got knocked up by a terrier of some kind.

He is pretty good overall. Will run for miles, give him a ball and he constantly thinks it's play time. Never leaves my side and is practically my shadow. Never interested in other dogs. He is not the snuggling kind, but will settle if you tell him.



This tt is called Sidney who is the complete opposite. Lazy, moody, and does what he wants when he wants. If you want a dog to snuggle and do sweet fa then he is your man. 😁

It does sound like a spaniel of some kind would be ideal for you though. While they can be a bit much, they are loads of fun

oddman

2,779 posts

259 months

Wednesday 4th September
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Sounds like you have the ideal set up and lifestyle for a spaniel. They are bred to please and are very affectionate (which can make them a bit clingy and needy). They are also very trainable learning machines

These are very popular dogs now so be aware there is a lot of irresponsible breeding to meet demand.

The fundamental choice is working or show. The lines separated about 70 years ago so although show dogs have some spanielish traits, they're essentially pets with quirks. Show breeders are generally interested in producing dogs which conform to their ideas about looks with behaviour a desirable but secondary characteristic

Working spaniels are a different matter. Much higher levels of intelligence drive and trainability. In my circles (working dogs on pheasant and partridge etc.) amateur breeders only breed if they are happy with their mum; are fussy about sire selection and have homes for at least a few of the pups even before mating takes place. For my springer, I spoke to the breeder 6 months after her previous litter ( a mate had a nice pup out of his bh) and 6 months before the she was due to come have her next litter. I was able to visit the pups twice a week from 4 weeks and then the pup choses you rather than the other way round. Top breeders have a waiting list and don't need to advertise (though the serious breeders/triallers will have an internet social media presence). If you have any contacts in shooting or beating then use them. Someone will be planning a litter and most dog people are happy to show off their pride and joy.

Rescue is a good call. Being popular dogs, and cockers being not easy to manage for some people - some need rehoming despite not being fundamentally faulty. If you don't need to work the dog then a 'reject' could find a good home this way.

IME dogs tend to be quite 'hard' subborn character dogs which can be useful in a working setting. bhes tend to be softer and require very gentle handling.

ETA my idiots



Edited by oddman on Wednesday 4th September 22:38

Boleros

661 posts

13 months

Wednesday 4th September
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So many options, hard to know where to start really. My first dog was a Springer and then when I got married we had another Springer and just recently we're on our second Cocker after the first one passed away aged six months (chicken bone stuck that he picked up behind a hedge).

We got Ozzie (cocker) two ago from an established gundog breeder because I wanted the provenance and reassurance that he came from good stock rather than an amateur trying to breed for the first time. Compared to the two Springers he has needed more work to calm him down but he is of course an absolute joy to have around.

There are numerous breeder websites around offering slots for pups but if you want to get one from an established and reputable breeder, you may have to wait a while and of course pay a premium. It really does depend on what you want one for, if you want to work him then gundog breeders are the way to go but if he's just a companion then perhaps just go through the Kennel Club to begin with.

I don't necessarily buy into the endless energy thing with spaniels, if you work with them a little in terms of play and thinking, two thirty minute sessions a day can be enough. The more you walk them, the fitter they get and the more exercise you think they'll need. They're not a lapdog so even if you're smart about how you exercise them they'll still need attention which is of course the joy of having them, that interaction.

Obligatory snap:



I absolutely love this boy and would have another in a heartbeat but I would also start his training earlier, we arsed about a bit and left it 12 months or so but you really do need to start sooner than that.

Edited by Boleros on Wednesday 4th September 22:42

oddman

2,779 posts

259 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Boleros said:
I don't necessarily buy into the endless energy thing with spaniels, if you work with them a little in terms of play and thinking, two thirty minute sessions a day can be enough.
Completely agree. They need training and brain work. Mine are fine on an hour a day with some training and hunting practice. They are very high drive dogs who will take as much as you can give but they don't need it.

Sway

Original Poster:

29,305 posts

201 months

Wednesday 4th September
quotequote all
Some great info here guys and gals, genuinely appreciated!

As are the pics, even if the dog shown is a tt! hehe

Really useful though, other half is worried about 'Internet research' that says working are beyond mental in terms of energy levels - and we both still feel guilty some 15 years later about Ripley the farm bred border collie. We were very different back then (she hadn't been diagnosed properly, I was away Mon-Thurs every week, two young kids, etc.) - and ultimately I feel a lot less guilt as she wasn't negatively impacted, and she lead an amazing life.

Working sounds a lot more our thing, in terms of breeders breeding for behaviour and temperament over looks. They're still bloody gorgeous dogs though.

No links at all with any form of shooting/beating. For no reason other than just never known anyone who does (not sure there's much of it around Chichester unless you're bestie mates with Lord March?).

Clingy companion for the Mrs, that's eager to please and enjoying training sounds perfect. Having the fitness and willingness to come with us on adventures (relatively - I'm taking camping trips, paddleboarding in the summer, and walking around our gorgeous area) is something that's held us back with Merlin - frankly he's just too big for that in a lot of circumstances, although if I mention the word 'camper' he gets more excited than pretty much anything other trigger!

I'm glad I'm on the right lines thinking about this now, at least a year before wanting a pup, is a good choice. Don't know how long we've got left with our floofty arse, and will definitely need a bit of a break while we grieve.

If anyone has any links for breeders, please feel free to PM me!

Boleros

661 posts

13 months

Thursday 5th September
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Here's a few to start with:

https://www.gundogsuk.co.uk

https://countrywaysgundogs.com

https://beggarbushgundogs.co.uk

https://www.facebook.com/sealpingundogs/?paipv=0&a...

https://mordorgundogs.com

The last one is largely about training and has a YouTube channel with tips and ideas, we really like him. You can send your pup up to him for full on training if you want but I'll bet it'll cost a few quid!

garythesign

2,279 posts

95 months

Thursday 5th September
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We are on our second. First was a boy from a pup. Our present is a girl who came from travellers and had been used as breed bh

They are great dogs but need lots of training. They are not particularly cuddly until they get in the later stages of life.

Have you thought of a flat coated retriever. Great dogs. Always up to mischief. Maybe too large for you.

Love you GSD.

Good luck

oddman

2,779 posts

259 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
Another option might be to contact the vets in your locality.

They'll be involved in vaccinating and, in the case of working spaniels, docking dogs, so they might have an idea who has or is planning a litter. A dog bred by a keeper or someone who works their dogs can be better for ordinary mortals than something from a top trialling line as they are more likely to be steady (being a relative term in spaniel circles).

As above, a retriever (Lab, Flattie or Golden) is a more sensible choice but they all need consistency attention and training. They're a bit boring though

Edited by oddman on Thursday 5th September 14:25

Sway

Original Poster:

29,305 posts

201 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
Yep, retrievers were considered, but too similar in size to Merlin - and frankly Merlin is a tad too big for some of the stuff we do, as well as being too big to curl up on the sofa.

Maybe in a few years when we sell up and move even more rural and have a couple of acres...

Mrs Sway's aunt was a top breeder for Chesapeake Bay Retrievers for many years, so if we went anywhere near that route we'd have an easy 'in' to some great breeders.

Crudeoink

732 posts

66 months

Thursday 5th September
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Sway said:
Yep, retrievers were considered, but too similar in size to Merlin - and frankly Merlin is a tad too big for some of the stuff we do, as well as being too big to curl up on the sofa.

Maybe in a few years when we sell up and move even more rural and have a couple of acres...

Mrs Sway's aunt was a top breeder for Chesapeake Bay Retrievers for many years, so if we went anywhere near that route we'd have an easy 'in' to some great breeders.
Could always consider a Toller. Ours is about 17kg. They are historically a mix of a few breeds including Retriever and Spaniel. They're about the best breed of dog going, but I am a bit biased wink

Sway

Original Poster:

29,305 posts

201 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
Oh wow, stunning dog!

Never heard of them before, but intrigued - unfortunately a quick Google doesn't help me find any active breeders, do you know of any that might be planning a litter?

Sway

Original Poster:

29,305 posts

201 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
Crudeoink - PM recieved appreciatively!

More research needed, aiming to start making contact with breeders this weekend via their webforms.

I've also been asked to take one of Mrs Sway's fellow scout leader's dogs out. Apparently it's a fking nightmare bundle of excessive energy!

Although we had a good chat, and actually talked through why that might be the case. They're both out all day, leaving the dog at home. They feed what we consider to be st food full of additives (Merlin is on raw from Durham, but he's started needing a little more than one block - a small handful of decent kibble and we've noticed him being a tad more hyper on that alone!). Etc.

They're not necessarily bad owners, in the wider context of the population - long walk everyday, training sessions at the weekend, etc., so more than many do but it's just obvious to me the problems they feel they're having are of their own making. An isolated dog, craving social interaction, attention and exercise in the compressed window they enable through their lifestyle.

We shall see!

Shuff4

187 posts

94 months

Thursday 5th September
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We have two show cockers, mother and daughter which we bred to keep a pup back.

They will happily be home for the day with ‘errr in doors, but will walk for hours too.

Mental stimulation if great for them, but they will spend a day around the house and be no bother.

‘Pup’ is approaching 12 months of age, so still learning / training, but she’s highly intelligent and wants to please.


Dont be put off with the shows, as they will still show willingness to work and have a drive to search / seek so can be trained easily without the constant need for stimulation / exercise as some hyperactive working lines do need.

Rh14n

974 posts

115 months

Thursday 5th September
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We've just adopted our Working Cocker Spaniel 'Archie' from Spaniel Aid and I thoroughly recommend them. We lost our Springer earlier this year and decided to Foster for Spaniel Aid. It's a great system in that you pick a dog to Foster and after around two weeks you can either adopt him/her or let him go for adoption with someone else. It's very much a 'try before you buy' set-up which is great. In May we fostered a 6 month old cocker but he wasn't quite right for us so he was then adopted by a lovely couple. Last month Archie came to stay and he is such a lovely boy just turning 2 years old that we couldn't possibly let him go and we formally adopted him a couple of weeks ago. He's a proper cuddle-monster. https://spanielaid.co.uk/
Picture of the handsome lad just because he is just that!





Edited by Rh14n on Thursday 5th September 21:47


Edited by Rh14n on Thursday 5th September 22:14

ben5575

6,641 posts

228 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
I have two show cockers. They are incredible. One is super smart, the other is thick as mince, both have fantastic personalities.

Shows make fantastic pets and if trained to be calm, will happily sleep through most of the day when you're not walking/playing with them.

I hike/fell run with one of them (as the other is sadly too old now) and he goes all day.

If you want cuddly, you may find that it's the sex rather than the breed that matters. I've always found male dogs to be far more affectionate than female dogs.


dave123456

2,822 posts

154 months

Thursday 5th September
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I’ve a working cocker, a bh.

To be honest a mix of walking (my iPhone says 5 miles per day average) and training seems to tire her out to the point she just collapses on my lap most evenings.

The best thing to do is make them think a bit, so finding their ball in the undergrowth. Waiting at heel before you release them to collect a thrown ball. Bit of work with a dummy etc. the people who just sling a ball repeatedly are not asking a great deal of a very intelligent and athletic breed and then just talk about how crazy they are… mine goes a little excited when I return after work sometimes.

They do want to go everywhere with you, I’m lucky that she can come most places. She sat at my feet in the pub earlier.


Challo

10,826 posts

162 months

Thursday 5th September
quotequote all
said:
Spaniel Aid are great. Lots of rescue places online that would love to re-home spaniels.

Defo check out rescue places.