My 14 year old Collie cross Beth, and ataxia

[Heaveho]

Beth, a generally fit and healthy dog, collapsed this morning without warning after her first walk, and was unable to stand. Her eyes were flickering from left to right uncontrollably, she was drooling and seems to have a head tilt.

She was at the vets by 8am, we let her try to walk into the room so the vet could see what was happening, and there didn't seem much doubt that it's ataxia. She's been given an injection and prescribed a steroid and something to reduce swelling of any potential lesion or tumour. She's improved through the day, her eyes are flickering way less, initially unable seemingly even to go to the toilet without being held up, she's now steadier on her feet and calmer, although not wanting to move about at all. But overall, much more back to normal than I dared hope this morning. Although not eating normally, she's getting more interested as the day has gone on.

I don't know what to think about what to do. This morning we were resigned to losing her within a couple of days. She's rallied today, and someone we know who's been through similar says she may well come out of it and be ok for a few months.

It was also suggested at the vets that we have an MRI. I initially dismissed this because of her age, but it was pointed out she has a strong heart and it wasn't necessarily to be ruled out. But what then. Surgery, obviously. Within reason, I will do anything to keep her if it means a longer life worth living for her, but equally, I won't let her suffer for the sake of trying to do the impossible, or to be selfish.

Thoughts appreciated, as I'm sure some on here have had similar experiences. I'm struggling to think rationally, as I'm obviously in bits about the idea of losing her, so some neutral observations are probably worth having. Thanks in advance.

[Thevet]

Not really my field, but sounds like a fit more than anything, MRI not much use unless there is a lump somewhere. Surgery NOT indicated at the moment. Ataxia is only a description of "lack of motor control" not a diagnosis really.
If it is a fit/epileptifom issue, then potentially medication can help, but it is often a progressive condition of very variable speed, so watch and see maybe the best approach, quite possible you may not see any more but also the other way. Not much help I'm afraid.

[Heaveho]

Thevet said:

Not really my field, but sounds like a fit more than anything, MRI not much use unless there is a lump somewhere. Surgery NOT indicated at the moment. Ataxia is only a description of "lack of motor control" not a diagnosis really.
If it is a fit/epileptifom issue, then potentially medication can help, but it is often a progressive condition of very variable speed, so watch and see maybe the best approach, quite possible you may not see any more but also the other way. Not much help I'm afraid.

Thanks for the reply. She had a similar thing in December in the middle of the night, where she was completely off balance, staggering, and glassy eyed. She was at the emergency vet half an hour later, and had seemingly fully recovered during the trip there. This time, it's obviously had a more profound effect on her.

I live in hope of a gradual improvement, even if only for a short time. At her age, anything good I get in this situation is a blessing.

[Thevet]

Sounds very much like an epileptiform fit, which is bad and good, treatment is not perfect (medical not surgical) but can work well, however, usually this is progressive.

[moorx]

Can't offer any advice/info I'm afraid (you have already received some from the best source) but just wanted to wish you and Beth well. This must be scary for you both.

[Heaveho]

Thevet said:

Sounds very much like an epileptiform fit, which is bad and good, treatment is not perfect (medical not surgical) but can work well, however, usually this is progressive.

Hi, thanks again. She appears to making a recovery beyond anything I dared hope for. My previous dog ( border collie ) became epileptic at the age of 7, which, as I understand it, is at the upper limits age wise for it to develop. I haven't heard the term epileptiform before, I'm guessing it's a fit that takes the form of epilepsy but isn't specific to that particular illness?

[Heaveho]

moorx said:

Can't offer any advice/info I'm afraid (you have already received some from the best source) but just wanted to wish you and Beth well. This must be scary for you both.

Thanks, yeah, it's my worst nightmare. Watching an animal suffer is beyond appalling. She's been through a few things and I've had some scares with her over the years, but as she gets older, I'm obviously more aware that anything that looks serious might be more likely to mean the end.

She seems better today again, if we can get a day to day improvement like this, she may appear to be back to normal sooner rather than later.

[Thevet]

Heaveho said:

Hi, thanks again. She appears to making a recovery beyond anything I dared hope for. My previous dog ( border collie ) became epileptic at the age of 7, which, as I understand it, is at the upper limits age wise for it to develop. I haven't heard the term epileptiform before, I'm guessing it's a fit that takes the form of epilepsy but isn't specific to that particular illness?

apologies but you are right that epileptiform means "like epilepsy"
There is no real upper age limit for developing epilepsy although the underlying causes may have differing timescales.
However, as before, there isa good and bad to this, symptoms/effects may disappear remarkably or may worsen, that is down to the wicked gods that determine what st hits which soul.
Hope there is much better ahead than bad.

[Heaveho]

Thevet said:

Heaveho said:

Hi, thanks again. She appears to making a recovery beyond anything I dared hope for. My previous dog ( border collie ) became epileptic at the age of 7, which, as I understand it, is at the upper limits age wise for it to develop. I haven't heard the term epileptiform before, I'm guessing it's a fit that takes the form of epilepsy but isn't specific to that particular illness?

apologies but you are right that epileptiform means "like epilepsy"
There is no real upper age limit for developing epilepsy although the underlying causes may have differing timescales.
However, as before, there isa good and bad to this, symptoms/effects may disappear remarkably or may worsen, that is down to the wicked gods that determine what st hits which soul.
Hope there is much better ahead than bad.

Thanks for everything so far. Your input is really helpful and appreciated. I live in hope that she continues to improve at the same rate she appears to be at the moment. I imagine the meds are getting a proper hold now, and she still has a few days worth of those left to take.

She has been able to have a couple of very short walks in the park nearby, she's a bit stumbly, and has a tendency to favour going slightly to the left. Above all else though, she is alert, has regained her appetite, and seems settled and happy. She doesn't seem to be aware that anything's wrong.

Edited by Heaveho on Saturday 29th July 15:02

[garythesign]

Fingers crossed for Beth

our collie cross is nearly 13 and slowly showing her age.

We have also had a border collie in the past.

They are such intelligent dogs

[Mr Tom]

Hi there, to me it sounds like an idiopathic vestibular episode. Usually respond to steroids.

Other potential diagnoses: Otitis media or brain lesion (for example a tumour).

It’s very hard to know just by a description on the internet so take my advice as a general direction, not a certainty.

Tom

[riosyd]

I was going to suggest vestibular episode too, happened to my retriever and took 6 weeks in total for him to recover. First week was awful but with antibiotics, steroids, anti sickness medication and lots of care we had him for another 18 months (he was nearly 16 when he died).
There’s an excellent FB group with lots of information called Vestibular syndrome in pets support group.

[Heaveho]

Thanks all, any info I can get is useful. I'm at the point with her where I don't think it's obvious to those who don't really know her that anything has happened. The giveaways are me carrying her downstairs ( we live in a town house, on the middle floor ), and a slight unsteadiness on her feet, but she's immeasurably better already.

[Heaveho]

Well, Beth has gradually improved since Thursday to the point where anyone who didn't know wouldn't guess what she's been through. She's walking pretty much normally again, her eye movements appear normal, and the head tilt has disappeared. The downside, I suspect because of the meds, is her drinking much more water and an extremely upset stomach through last night and all day today so far, with no sign of either letting up.

Compared to what we feared though, it's a small price to pay. We're obviously very relieved at what we accept is probably a temporary reprieve, but to see her generally happy and eating again is amazing.

[moorx]

[moorx]

Well ironically, Rosie - 9 yo cocker spaniel - had a similar (though much less serious) episode today.

I was working from home and she was on a chair in the same room. Not sure whether she started feeling ill so tried to get up, or whether it started when she got up, but she started stumbling then fell over. When I went to her, her eyes were flicking.

Called my OH in and phoned the vets. They told us to bring her in. Of course as soon as I got off the phone she seemed better! OH still took her in and they have diagnosed an ear infection rather than anything more serious. They've given us antibiotics.

Just as I'm typing this, OH has said it's happening again

Hopefully the ABs will start working quickly.

[garythesign]

moorx said:

Well ironically, Rosie - 9 yo cocker spaniel - had a similar (though much less serious) episode today.

I was working from home and she was on a chair in the same room. Not sure whether she started feeling ill so tried to get up, or whether it started when she got up, but she started stumbling then fell over. When I went to her, her eyes were flicking.

Called my OH in and phoned the vets. They told us to bring her in. Of course as soon as I got off the phone she seemed better! OH still took her in and they have diagnosed an ear infection rather than anything more serious. They've given us antibiotics.

Just as I'm typing this, OH has said it's happening again

Hopefully the ABs will start working quickly.

Fingers crossed for Rosie

[Heaveho]

moorx said:

Well ironically, Rosie - 9 yo cocker spaniel - had a similar (though much less serious) episode today.

I was working from home and she was on a chair in the same room. Not sure whether she started feeling ill so tried to get up, or whether it started when she got up, but she started stumbling then fell over. When I went to her, her eyes were flicking.

Called my OH in and phoned the vets. They told us to bring her in. Of course as soon as I got off the phone she seemed better! OH still took her in and they have diagnosed an ear infection rather than anything more serious. They've given us antibiotics.

Just as I'm typing this, OH has said it's happening again

Hopefully the ABs will start working quickly.

I'm sorry to read that, I know all too well how horrible it is to watch a pet have a fit or similar. I hope your vet gets her sorted quickly.

Beth was progressing well, but was stumbly and off balance for a while last night. Today, as I came in from work, she tried to come down the stairs and fell, taking the skin off around her nose, and limping temporarily. She seems ok, but it's led to me losing my temper with my other half, as I've been carrying Beth up and down to the garden or to go to the park, and making sure doors were closed off to prevent exactly this.

We're supposed to going abroad next month for a week, an annual event to visit my MIL with some friends, one of who'm has a birthday during the break. I'm right on the edge of pulling out of this for obvious reasons, which will undoubtedly lead to more domestic unpleasantness as it's all booked, but tough.

Beth is the best dog I've ever had in a lifetime of dog ownership. Missing a holiday I couldn't now enjoy anyway seems a small price to pay if the worst were to happen soon, and I'd never forgive myself if I'm not with her at the end.

[Thevet]

Impossible situation for you all, the bad news is that they all get worse as they get older, one of our labs who loved jumping up and over everything, got to the point that she would run out to the garden in the morning and end up in a sad and confused heap after the first step, combined with other challenges, we said enough as she couldn't find comfort or relief. I hate the slide downhill, it's awful.

[Heaveho]

So. I'm dealing with this by largely getting drunk if I'm honest, but I've had an awful year and I'm not going to apologise. I lost my oldest friend to a heart attack in March, my best friend ( autistic ) is currently barely speaking to me, I've had to give up pretty much any idea of spending time in Southampton ( a place I regard as my spiritual home ), and have had multiple periods of time in hospital.

I broached the problem of not going on holiday this morning with a surprisingly equitable outcome. So, in as much as losing Beth is one of the most unpleasant and difficult things I think I'll ever have encountered in my life, I suppose I should count myself lucky that I've managed to navigate life thus far without the need to face anything so difficult. I wasn't close to my parents, didn't suffer when they passed, and have no siblings.

She's clearly not the dog she was a month ago, the head tilt has reappeared, she isn't always in control of her movements, but she is alert, bright eyed and willing to be involved in anything that is offered. All of that is small solace to me, I'm resigned to losing her soon, and I can't come to terms with the idea of life without her. If there was an option to be able to go with her, I'd take it.