Shepherds, Dutch and Belgian in particular
Discussion
In the next 18 months or so I'm aiming for a 2nd dog to go alongside Chewie who is currently 5.5 years old (well 4th actually but who knows how long the two old ones will last). The logic being that as he slows down the newer one can start doing the longer stuff.
I'm obsessed with the idea of getting something bigger, but that can be active, and I love the look of the Malinois and the Dutch hearders. I want something I can walk, hike, run and cycle with and I'm really drawn to this type of dog, however given all the research I've done, it appears unless you can devote 5hrs every day to a Mali it's a no go. I believe the Dutch is a little less demanding, but still challenging.
I'm up for the challenge, but are there any owners of these hearder dogs who can chip in with advice/feedback etc.
Thanks in advance.
I'm obsessed with the idea of getting something bigger, but that can be active, and I love the look of the Malinois and the Dutch hearders. I want something I can walk, hike, run and cycle with and I'm really drawn to this type of dog, however given all the research I've done, it appears unless you can devote 5hrs every day to a Mali it's a no go. I believe the Dutch is a little less demanding, but still challenging.
I'm up for the challenge, but are there any owners of these hearder dogs who can chip in with advice/feedback etc.
Thanks in advance.
We have 2 GSDs, which are lightweights compared to a Malinois. Clearly you’ve got the physical exercise covered, but even GSDs get bored with the “same walk”, and I’ve never managed to cycle with them, they get bored of following you, and they find something else to do, generally it will be something undesirable.
Training a GSD to be well behaved in all circumstances is an enormous effort - Mrs rxe was pretty much a full time dog trainer for 18 months when a pup arrived. However, she now has a dog that will spot a deer, launch after it, and then come back when called, Every time. Damn dog won’t do it reliably for me, but I haven’t put the time in. I suspect a Malinois will be “next level” effort.
Training a GSD to be well behaved in all circumstances is an enormous effort - Mrs rxe was pretty much a full time dog trainer for 18 months when a pup arrived. However, she now has a dog that will spot a deer, launch after it, and then come back when called, Every time. Damn dog won’t do it reliably for me, but I haven’t put the time in. I suspect a Malinois will be “next level” effort.
I have a 2.5 year old dutch herder and train security/sport dogs.
The malli and herders really do need there drive and attention focused in the right way and aren't the easiest of breeds to live with.
German Shepherds are more level headed.
Have you any idea or breeders for a mali or hurder?
https://m.facebook.com/groups/344353015761596?grou...
I can recommend the linked breeder for a GSD, Margret breeds an active driven dog for active homes and she has quite a few go into security/police/prison service .
The malli and herders really do need there drive and attention focused in the right way and aren't the easiest of breeds to live with.
German Shepherds are more level headed.
Have you any idea or breeders for a mali or hurder?
https://m.facebook.com/groups/344353015761596?grou...
I can recommend the linked breeder for a GSD, Margret breeds an active driven dog for active homes and she has quite a few go into security/police/prison service .
rxe said:
We have 2 GSDs, which are lightweights compared to a Malinois. Clearly you’ve got the physical exercise covered, but even GSDs get bored with the “same walk”, and I’ve never managed to cycle with them, they get bored of following you, and they find something else to do, generally it will be something undesirable.
Training a GSD to be well behaved in all circumstances is an enormous effort - Mrs rxe was pretty much a full time dog trainer for 18 months when a pup arrived. However, she now has a dog that will spot a deer, launch after it, and then come back when called, Every time. Damn dog won’t do it reliably for me, but I haven’t put the time in. I suspect a Malinois will be “next level” effort.
Thank you for that. I am concerned that a Malinois might be too much, but I love the look of them. A GSD might be a better compromise but your comments about recall are a concern, especially as I live in the New Forest! Chewie has awful recall despite working hard on it, to the point his walks are lead based every day. I don't want to be in the same situation again. If I could find a straight backed, small, short hair gsd that can recall I think that would be the best option!Training a GSD to be well behaved in all circumstances is an enormous effort - Mrs rxe was pretty much a full time dog trainer for 18 months when a pup arrived. However, she now has a dog that will spot a deer, launch after it, and then come back when called, Every time. Damn dog won’t do it reliably for me, but I haven’t put the time in. I suspect a Malinois will be “next level” effort.
PArbor1 said:
I have a 2.5 year old dutch herder and train security/sport dogs.
The malli and herders really do need there drive and attention focused in the right way and aren't the easiest of breeds to live with.
German Shepherds are more level headed.
Have you any idea or breeders for a mali or hurder?
https://m.facebook.com/groups/344353015761596?grou...
I can recommend the linked breeder for a GSD, Margret breeds an active driven dog for active homes and she has quite a few go into security/police/prison service .
Your Dutch is stunning! I absolutely love that look. As mentioned above I'd love one but am a little intimidated. I'd rather do my research now than get one and regret it. Funnily enough, you're not the first person to mention a working line gsd. They have an off switch it seems. I don't like the curved back and the long coat but apparently you can get straight backed and short coats. The malli and herders really do need there drive and attention focused in the right way and aren't the easiest of breeds to live with.
German Shepherds are more level headed.
Have you any idea or breeders for a mali or hurder?
https://m.facebook.com/groups/344353015761596?grou...
I can recommend the linked breeder for a GSD, Margret breeds an active driven dog for active homes and she has quite a few go into security/police/prison service .
No idea on breeders etc, but that link above looks very useful.
How are yours with recall etc? I want to be able to trust it out and about whilst running etc in the forest. A loosing battle?
Malis and herders have been bred to be extreme in every part of there lives, although they pick things up quickly it’s how you go about it and how you deal with heightened levels of arousal. It really isn’t easy. I’ve have to find and learn different techniques to train my herder.
When it comes to recall you need to be training it every day, starting as a pup in the house and garden, then outside building up to around distractions. There prey drive is so high I choose where and when she’s off the lead.
The other option is a mali x gsd or a herder x gsd, these are nice mixes that bring a level of sensible to the dog.
Where abouts are you in the country? I’d go to some sport clubs and meet people that own and train them, listen to there advice and learn about the breeds and how they tick.
If you do get a mali or a herder, I strongly recommend that you join a club and get some training from people that are used to these breeds.
I always think of them as gremlins, don’t get wet and don’t feed after midnight!
When it comes to recall you need to be training it every day, starting as a pup in the house and garden, then outside building up to around distractions. There prey drive is so high I choose where and when she’s off the lead.
The other option is a mali x gsd or a herder x gsd, these are nice mixes that bring a level of sensible to the dog.
Where abouts are you in the country? I’d go to some sport clubs and meet people that own and train them, listen to there advice and learn about the breeds and how they tick.
If you do get a mali or a herder, I strongly recommend that you join a club and get some training from people that are used to these breeds.
I always think of them as gremlins, don’t get wet and don’t feed after midnight!
S100HP said:
Thank you for that. I am concerned that a Malinois might be too much, but I love the look of them. A GSD might be a better compromise but your comments about recall are a concern, especially as I live in the New Forest! Chewie has awful recall despite working hard on it, to the point his walks are lead based every day. I don't want to be in the same situation again. If I could find a straight backed, small, short hair gsd that can recall I think that would be the best option!
Even a show line GSD is not a dog that you can just go for a run with and let it get on with it. Go for a run while playing ball or frisbee, sure. But not just banging out 5 miles and expecting the dog to behave the whole way. One of our GSDs is pretty close to working line, and to be honest she is hard work - needs to be on a lead, recall is dubious to say the least and she will chase anything small. She’s 11 now so “chase” is rather a strong word, but we still need to keep a very close eye on her. The younger dog is a reasonably straight backed non-working dog, much more biddable, and if you have a ball in your hand, she will be locked onto you, regardless of what is happening. If you can work some sort of a game or task into the running, any of these would be a great companion. When they’re playing a game and concentrating on you, their recall is better than pretty much anything out there. When they’re left to their own devices, they’re smart enough to be a problem.
PArbor1 said:
I’d go to some sport clubs and meet people that own and train them, listen to there advice and learn about the breeds and how they tick.
This is valuable advice.From my own dog owning journey, I've joined my local sporting dog club and I've been taking my GSD along (now 10 months old) every weekend for the last two months. I always thought I was doing quite well with my training, but what I've learnt from observing and asking questions of the other members is priceless. I wish I had started sooner. What they've got some of their younger puppies doing is remarkable.
I can now give her enough stimulation in 20 minutes of fast paced structured training and a game of tug/ball to tire her out, whereas an hours walk didn't even have her warmed up. It's hard work, you need to get quite animated and out of breath yourself
. And every day, at least once.But it's resulted in the development of our relationship with more focus both in and outside of the house.
Does it have to be short hair? Could go for one of the other types of Belgian, Tervuren or Groenendael. Pretty much the same dog underneath as a Mali but not quite as extreme.
Mine had boundless energy in her younger years, happily running 15+ miles, but had the ability to chill when needed, even at nearly 12 now she will still do a 10 mile walk or run a 5k. Only ever slightly chewed 1 shoe when left alone as a less than 1 year old. Can live without a load of exercise a day too, there have been times she has been restricted and been absolutely fine with it. Most Sundays she won't even get out of bad until lunch time if you don't get her up for anything.
They seem to be able to fit in well with different owners. My aunt always had 1-2 of them and as a pensioner had no trouble keeping it them occupied enough and she wasn't walking / running all over the place. She had working GSDs too and they were pretty similar. Similarly other champion breeders I know have lovely tempered ones who again just live with pensioners.
I was talking to the breeder of mine the other week, been breeding, showing, working with Belgians for probably 30 years. He suggested for a first timer who wants a Mali, don't get one from a serious working/ protection line. They are the more hyper, demanding ones. He did say that most reputable breeders of this sort wouldn't let one go to a "normal" family but you never know.
They can be pretty docile too if you get the right one. A family that live near me got one last year, see them walking it regularly in the morning. It is a very quiet, placid thing that happily walks along off lead, with a frisbee in its gob, great recall.
Mine had boundless energy in her younger years, happily running 15+ miles, but had the ability to chill when needed, even at nearly 12 now she will still do a 10 mile walk or run a 5k. Only ever slightly chewed 1 shoe when left alone as a less than 1 year old. Can live without a load of exercise a day too, there have been times she has been restricted and been absolutely fine with it. Most Sundays she won't even get out of bad until lunch time if you don't get her up for anything.
They seem to be able to fit in well with different owners. My aunt always had 1-2 of them and as a pensioner had no trouble keeping it them occupied enough and she wasn't walking / running all over the place. She had working GSDs too and they were pretty similar. Similarly other champion breeders I know have lovely tempered ones who again just live with pensioners.
I was talking to the breeder of mine the other week, been breeding, showing, working with Belgians for probably 30 years. He suggested for a first timer who wants a Mali, don't get one from a serious working/ protection line. They are the more hyper, demanding ones. He did say that most reputable breeders of this sort wouldn't let one go to a "normal" family but you never know.
They can be pretty docile too if you get the right one. A family that live near me got one last year, see them walking it regularly in the morning. It is a very quiet, placid thing that happily walks along off lead, with a frisbee in its gob, great recall.
A week of mine at 4mo the to 1.5 years old and I guarantee you would have sent her back to the breeder. 🤣
They really are working dogs through and through, and I really can’t stress how intense these two breeds are.
If you do get one, I hope you get the training and produce an active pet that fits into your family, maybe even start competing at ring sports..
What you do with these breeds early on in there life is critical.
I’ve seriously though about having a litter with mine with a specific stud dog the potential from the offspring would be good but I keep coming back to the fact that I would need to sell all but two of the pups and finding suitable owners is going to be very very hard.
The handful of reputable breeders that I know will not sell one of there pups to anyone other than sport/security/police/prison service, and they would have had to have trained German shepherds as a minimum before.
There are multiple police forces that won’t have a mali/DH as they haven’t got the handlers capable of handling them.
They really are working dogs through and through, and I really can’t stress how intense these two breeds are.
If you do get one, I hope you get the training and produce an active pet that fits into your family, maybe even start competing at ring sports..
What you do with these breeds early on in there life is critical.
I’ve seriously though about having a litter with mine with a specific stud dog the potential from the offspring would be good but I keep coming back to the fact that I would need to sell all but two of the pups and finding suitable owners is going to be very very hard.
The handful of reputable breeders that I know will not sell one of there pups to anyone other than sport/security/police/prison service, and they would have had to have trained German shepherds as a minimum before.
There are multiple police forces that won’t have a mali/DH as they haven’t got the handlers capable of handling them.
![](https://thumbsnap.com/sc/PvDrUcY6.jpg[/img]</a> <a href="https://thumbsnap.com/m2NMGaub" Target="_blank" rel="nofollow">[img]https://thumbsnap.com/sc/m2NMGaub.jpg)
Thanks all. Just posted this on a Malinois group I'm in, but feeling a bit annoyed today. Feels totally unreasonable to me. I applied to a rescue for a young pup.
We currently have 3 dogs, two are 13 year old Jack Russell, one is a 5.5 year old Whippet/Terrier. We are considering getting another dog as the older ones are getting no younger, and I'd love a GSD/Mali cross.
I live on the edge of the New Forest, I walk the dogs every day etc etc. I'd rather rescue something than buy an unknown pup from somewhere and believe I can give a dog a good home. I'm planning on joining the local search and rescue given we're on the forest, and would happily do agility etc. I find it incredibly frustrating that I won't even be considered because I have no large dog experience, and that is that.
I started having a discussion with them last night on Facebook but deleted it in the end as just kept getting told the same thing. How do they expect to re-home all these dogs if they are ruling out so many people at the very start? It's really irked me. Guess we'll have to go and get one from a breeder ??
We currently have 3 dogs, two are 13 year old Jack Russell, one is a 5.5 year old Whippet/Terrier. We are considering getting another dog as the older ones are getting no younger, and I'd love a GSD/Mali cross.
I live on the edge of the New Forest, I walk the dogs every day etc etc. I'd rather rescue something than buy an unknown pup from somewhere and believe I can give a dog a good home. I'm planning on joining the local search and rescue given we're on the forest, and would happily do agility etc. I find it incredibly frustrating that I won't even be considered because I have no large dog experience, and that is that.
I started having a discussion with them last night on Facebook but deleted it in the end as just kept getting told the same thing. How do they expect to re-home all these dogs if they are ruling out so many people at the very start? It's really irked me. Guess we'll have to go and get one from a breeder ??
Edited by S100HP on Friday 19th November 14:20
It is unfortunate, not particularly unusual though. I know rescues etc can be super picky over who they give dogs to and if those are their rules there is no arguing.
A friend of mine had a Weimaraner, well looked after, responsible, middle aged owners, never had problems. They wanted to get another one and wanted to rescue. Nowhere would let them have one because they didn't have a 6ft garden fence! So they got a puppy one from a breeder.
Good breeders may also be similarly picky though. The breeder I got mine from usually sells to previous customers or people he knows with experience. We were fortunate in that he thought we would be ok as I'd been brought up around Belgians and my last dog was a GSD.
Like my friends you sound like you would be giving a Mal a good home, but I can also understand their reluctance if not used to having a bigger dog as it can go massively wrong if you mess it up.
On the other hand you have to get experience somewhere. Its a bit like when i was trying to get insurance for my new car this year. I had one insurer saying even though I had a different version of the model previously and numerous other fast / powerful cars, they would not insure me until I had a years experience with the new one, how am I supposed to if you wont insure it?
A friend of mine had a Weimaraner, well looked after, responsible, middle aged owners, never had problems. They wanted to get another one and wanted to rescue. Nowhere would let them have one because they didn't have a 6ft garden fence! So they got a puppy one from a breeder.
Good breeders may also be similarly picky though. The breeder I got mine from usually sells to previous customers or people he knows with experience. We were fortunate in that he thought we would be ok as I'd been brought up around Belgians and my last dog was a GSD.
Like my friends you sound like you would be giving a Mal a good home, but I can also understand their reluctance if not used to having a bigger dog as it can go massively wrong if you mess it up.
On the other hand you have to get experience somewhere. Its a bit like when i was trying to get insurance for my new car this year. I had one insurer saying even though I had a different version of the model previously and numerous other fast / powerful cars, they would not insure me until I had a years experience with the new one, how am I supposed to if you wont insure it?
I would have thought that the biggest problem for the rescues is that 90+% of Shepherds for rescue are “must be only pet”. I’d be quite keen to take on a rescue when our older dog is gone, but very few would appear to fit in with our younger shepherd.
It seems to me that someone with the lifestyle to work one properly, and the space, should be gold dust to them, even if they haven’t had one before.
It seems to me that someone with the lifestyle to work one properly, and the space, should be gold dust to them, even if they haven’t had one before.
I know of a two and a half year old GSDxHerder cross b
h that is for sale/rehoming due to the owners unfortunate change of circumstances.
She has had some training for Global Ring. I have done some training with her and she is a nice bh.
She has drive but not extreme, with the right training this could be brought out and is a biddable dog.
I know the owner and also the person that is kenneling her at the moment.
If you are interested she is in kennels just outside of Yeovil.
h that is for sale/rehoming due to the owners unfortunate change of circumstances.She has had some training for Global Ring. I have done some training with her and she is a nice b
h.She has drive but not extreme, with the right training this could be brought out and is a biddable dog.
I know the owner and also the person that is kenneling her at the moment.
If you are interested she is in kennels just outside of Yeovil.
Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff