Behavioural therapist, training or just beyond hope?
Discussion
Bit of backstory. A year ago we took on a two year old rescue dog (our previous rescue having died a while back). She looks mainly like a form of collie but clearly a mix of things. A medium size dog. Initially she was very quiet, didn't bark and enjoyed walks and meeting other dogs. She has always been a little anxious and didn't like being left alone for any time at all, 10 minutes max and that's all time she would spend staying out the window and howling for our return. She was destructive when lonely. All this improved with time and love. We did some group training and she loved the other dogs and was a star pupil, she's quite bright! She loves humans and meeting new people.
A few months later we fostered a second rescue dog, slightly smaller, younger harehound and they bonded straight away so we adopted her too. We've left them at home for four hours occasionally and they were fine. So this is all positive. We were able to let them off the lead at the local fields and they'd play with other dogs and recall (reluctantly). They love each other dearly. Will day that walking both dogs has made it harder to keep them under control sometimes.
However, in the last six months dog one has become much worse when in public. Out of nowhere she became snappy and barky at other dogs, pulling to get to them and her recall became non existent. She was spayed around the same time which we thought might have calmed her newfound aggression but seemed to do the opposite. She is very happy to see dogs she has previously played with, it's just an issue with any dog she didn't know before this aggressive behaviour suddenly arose. We've tried both carrot and stick ideas on walks, e.g. treats when she sees other dogs and the hissing spray cans to stop her barking. No real improvement.
Fast forward to today and we took the dogs to a local fenced area to have a run around together. Dog one spotted a small dog about 30 metres away and lept a fence to get to it, barking and snapping (no actual bites). The owner picked up his dog (probably in fear for his dog and I don't blame him!) and our dog sat at his feet barking upwards. She wouldn't recall or acknowledge my presence until I'd run over and grabbed her.
This has shook us a bit, we thought she might find the lead a trigger for feeling restrained but as she was off lead, albeit in an enclosed area, it seems that her anxiety/aggressive issues are getting worse and I worry she'll nip another dog and our troubles will really begin...
Had anyone had success with behaviourists or specific trainiing ideas? I can stick to the present routine which is crossing roads to avoid other dogs but it takes a lot of joy out of the walks. And whilst I can hold her back my wife really struggles to do so, dog one is pretty strong. I thought she might be protective of her little dog sister but there was no threat from this tiny dog in the distance.
What's frustrating is that we take them in our little campervan but with her attitude it's worrying if we end up camping near other dogs, I do worry about her lead slipping loose and getting in trouble.
Thoughts? If she can't be calmed down then it'll be a continuation of current policy of avoiding other dogs but that seems a real shame for her when she can engage so nicely with her established friends.
Advice welcome if you've been in a similar situation!
A few months later we fostered a second rescue dog, slightly smaller, younger harehound and they bonded straight away so we adopted her too. We've left them at home for four hours occasionally and they were fine. So this is all positive. We were able to let them off the lead at the local fields and they'd play with other dogs and recall (reluctantly). They love each other dearly. Will day that walking both dogs has made it harder to keep them under control sometimes.
However, in the last six months dog one has become much worse when in public. Out of nowhere she became snappy and barky at other dogs, pulling to get to them and her recall became non existent. She was spayed around the same time which we thought might have calmed her newfound aggression but seemed to do the opposite. She is very happy to see dogs she has previously played with, it's just an issue with any dog she didn't know before this aggressive behaviour suddenly arose. We've tried both carrot and stick ideas on walks, e.g. treats when she sees other dogs and the hissing spray cans to stop her barking. No real improvement.
Fast forward to today and we took the dogs to a local fenced area to have a run around together. Dog one spotted a small dog about 30 metres away and lept a fence to get to it, barking and snapping (no actual bites). The owner picked up his dog (probably in fear for his dog and I don't blame him!) and our dog sat at his feet barking upwards. She wouldn't recall or acknowledge my presence until I'd run over and grabbed her.
This has shook us a bit, we thought she might find the lead a trigger for feeling restrained but as she was off lead, albeit in an enclosed area, it seems that her anxiety/aggressive issues are getting worse and I worry she'll nip another dog and our troubles will really begin...
Had anyone had success with behaviourists or specific trainiing ideas? I can stick to the present routine which is crossing roads to avoid other dogs but it takes a lot of joy out of the walks. And whilst I can hold her back my wife really struggles to do so, dog one is pretty strong. I thought she might be protective of her little dog sister but there was no threat from this tiny dog in the distance.
What's frustrating is that we take them in our little campervan but with her attitude it's worrying if we end up camping near other dogs, I do worry about her lead slipping loose and getting in trouble.
Thoughts? If she can't be calmed down then it'll be a continuation of current policy of avoiding other dogs but that seems a real shame for her when she can engage so nicely with her established friends.
Advice welcome if you've been in a similar situation!
I'm not a behavioural expert, but have some experience of fear aggressive dogs.
My advice would be get a muzzle and start muzzle training, book a vets appointment to make sure there is no underlying medical cause for the change in behaviour and seek expert behavioural advice (APDT or similar).
Good luck.
My advice would be get a muzzle and start muzzle training, book a vets appointment to make sure there is no underlying medical cause for the change in behaviour and seek expert behavioural advice (APDT or similar).
Good luck.
We're going through something similar at the moment, albeit not as bad as your situation.
Inherited dog, has a tolerable relationship with existing pooch but very reactive to other dogs, people and noises.
We've come quite a long way in the last 6 months, I have to remind myself and celebrate the successes.
I'm a big fan of whistles for recall, constant, clear command that carries well.
We're now at a stage where we don't need to cross the road, unless the other dog is clearly agitated or young. I'll distract our dog with a kibble before the red mist comes down and scuttle passed. When we see another dog she's now looking to me for a treat rather than focusing on the other dog.
I still won't leave her off the lead around other dogs unless she's settled, which she's stating to achieve.
Areas that need more work.
Likes car, but over excited and doesn't settle, which makes journeys stressful.
Over excited in pubs, where there's people, noises and other dogs. Which make refreshment stressful.
Training is awkward with existing dog in the mix
We've booked a course of 5 sessions with a local well regarded trainer. I'm convinced
problems stem from a lack of socialisation and self confidence.
There's a lot of cross over between trainers and behaviourists. I think behaviourists tend to have completed animal behaviour college courses.
Trainers tend to be focused on dogs.
Good, bad and indifferent in each but techniques pretty similar.
If only I could think 'dog'.
Inherited dog, has a tolerable relationship with existing pooch but very reactive to other dogs, people and noises.
We've come quite a long way in the last 6 months, I have to remind myself and celebrate the successes.
I'm a big fan of whistles for recall, constant, clear command that carries well.
We're now at a stage where we don't need to cross the road, unless the other dog is clearly agitated or young. I'll distract our dog with a kibble before the red mist comes down and scuttle passed. When we see another dog she's now looking to me for a treat rather than focusing on the other dog.
I still won't leave her off the lead around other dogs unless she's settled, which she's stating to achieve.
Areas that need more work.
Likes car, but over excited and doesn't settle, which makes journeys stressful.
Over excited in pubs, where there's people, noises and other dogs. Which make refreshment stressful.
Training is awkward with existing dog in the mix
We've booked a course of 5 sessions with a local well regarded trainer. I'm convinced
problems stem from a lack of socialisation and self confidence.
There's a lot of cross over between trainers and behaviourists. I think behaviourists tend to have completed animal behaviour college courses.
Trainers tend to be focused on dogs.
Good, bad and indifferent in each but techniques pretty similar.
If only I could think 'dog'.
My wife just said
"if you never met bonnie, she wasn't here, no knowledge no comebacks, would you still want her"?
I'm like no, life was easier without her.
Now she won't stop staring at me (bonnie dog, not wife)
I think Bonnie's an alien (men in black or Mars invades)
I'm going to be more careful from now on.
"if you never met bonnie, she wasn't here, no knowledge no comebacks, would you still want her"?
I'm like no, life was easier without her.
Now she won't stop staring at me (bonnie dog, not wife)
I think Bonnie's an alien (men in black or Mars invades)
I'm going to be more careful from now on.
Defo go and see a behavioural expert and see what they recommend.
Our Cockapoo was great as a puppy, but now nearly 3 he is very hit and miss with dogs. Sometimes he is great, others he can snap and be aggressive. Our trainer just explained that dogs are like people and they don’t like everyone. Because he can be hit and miss we don’t put ourselves in certain situations. If we see other dogs, and I don’t know them our dog goes on the lead and stays on the lead.
It might be the case you need to pick and choose when you let them off lead.
One thing to note as you have two dogs they will feed off each other and look to each other for support. Have you tried walking separately and seeing if the behaviour changes?
Our Cockapoo was great as a puppy, but now nearly 3 he is very hit and miss with dogs. Sometimes he is great, others he can snap and be aggressive. Our trainer just explained that dogs are like people and they don’t like everyone. Because he can be hit and miss we don’t put ourselves in certain situations. If we see other dogs, and I don’t know them our dog goes on the lead and stays on the lead.
It might be the case you need to pick and choose when you let them off lead.
One thing to note as you have two dogs they will feed off each other and look to each other for support. Have you tried walking separately and seeing if the behaviour changes?
Edited by Challo on Saturday 9th October 22:31
Our first dog was a rescue Border Collie, scared of her own shadow.
One Sunday she also ran across a field to attack another dog. To say I was mortified is an understatement. To this day I still don’t know what provoked the attacck.
We went to recognised trainer and although it did not cure her it certainly made it easier to take her out.
Several years later we introduced a flat coated retriever into our lives. What a change in the Collie.
Its was as if the Retriever had taken over the responsibility to protect the family from the world.
She lived to 16 and in her latter years was the most zen dog ever.
Don’t give up, it is hard work with a ‘problem’ dog but they are worth it.
RIP Pippin and Bramble.
One Sunday she also ran across a field to attack another dog. To say I was mortified is an understatement. To this day I still don’t know what provoked the attacck.
We went to recognised trainer and although it did not cure her it certainly made it easier to take her out.
Several years later we introduced a flat coated retriever into our lives. What a change in the Collie.
Its was as if the Retriever had taken over the responsibility to protect the family from the world.
She lived to 16 and in her latter years was the most zen dog ever.
Don’t give up, it is hard work with a ‘problem’ dog but they are worth it.
RIP Pippin and Bramble.
Edited by garythesign on Sunday 10th October 09:07
It won't fix your problems, but perhaps one of the red/yellow Caution/Unfriendly leads/collars would be an idea as well?
Our lab is keen to say hello to everything, and I know she is friendly, but if the other dog is on a lead, I'll call her to heel.
If the other dog is muzzled (or has one of the above leads on) or the other owner/dog is stressed, I'll chuck the slip lead on her for a few minutes - less stress for owners and dogs alike.
Our lab is keen to say hello to everything, and I know she is friendly, but if the other dog is on a lead, I'll call her to heel.
If the other dog is muzzled (or has one of the above leads on) or the other owner/dog is stressed, I'll chuck the slip lead on her for a few minutes - less stress for owners and dogs alike.
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