Petition bbc running a program will my dog make me rich

[Pesty]

All this will do is promote puppy farms and stray dog ill Heath etc.



https://www.change.org/p/bbc-stop-the-bbc-producin...

[super7]

Lol

[parakitaMol.]

Thanks for sharing Pesty, it's cheap TV at its worst. Thankfully the campaign is really putting the pressure on.

They are saying now that they will change the working title and aim to show how bad breeding can be. However they don't seem to get that by following those two idiots on their 'get rich quick' idea of dog breeding can ONLY serve to give more assholes the idea.

With any luck the continued bad press will pull it.

Not that it made any difference to C5 and putting the UK's answer to Cesar Milan, the unqualified wker Graeme Hall on TV (universally hated by all dog trainers)

[Ash_]

parakitaMol. said:

Thanks for sharing Pesty, it's cheap TV at its worst. Thankfully the campaign is really putting the pressure on.

They are saying now that they will change the working title and aim to show how bad breeding can be. However they don't seem to get that by following those two idiots on their 'get rich quick' idea of dog breeding can ONLY serve to give more assholes the idea.

With any luck the continued bad press will pull it.

Not that it made any difference to C5 and putting the UK's answer to Cesar Milan, the unqualified wker Graeme Hall on TV (universally hated by all dog trainers)

Didn't actually realise Graeme Hall had such a bad press and was un-qualified as my wife and I watch his show and how he turns the dogs around (or rather turns the owners around, as it's mostly owner mistakes leading to the bad behaviour). I'm going to trot off to google and see what I can find out.

[parakitaMol.]

Ash_ said:

parakitaMol. said:

Thanks for sharing Pesty, it's cheap TV at its worst. Thankfully the campaign is really putting the pressure on.

They are saying now that they will change the working title and aim to show how bad breeding can be. However they don't seem to get that by following those two idiots on their 'get rich quick' idea of dog breeding can ONLY serve to give more assholes the idea.

With any luck the continued bad press will pull it.

Not that it made any difference to C5 and putting the UK's answer to Cesar Milan, the unqualified wker Graeme Hall on TV (universally hated by all dog trainers)

Didn't actually realise Graeme Hall had such a bad press and was un-qualified as my wife and I watch his show and how he turns the dogs around (or rather turns the owners around, as it's mostly owner mistakes leading to the bad behaviour). I'm going to trot off to google and see what I can find out.

He uses aversive techniques (fear and punishment) and is unqualified. You will only ever see 'results' but not any cures, you will not see the fallout afterwards when dogs who have been punished and scared then get worse. He is the UK equivalent to Cesar Milan and in the dog training world he is loathed.

I would recommend not watching this awful drivel and definitely not following any of his made up drivel on your dog.

There have been campaigns and objections raised the leading dog training advocates and organisations against Channel 4 broadcasting him. C4 dropped him but C5 picked him up... the campaign resumed but C5 don't care because it is all about ratings good or bad.

[parakitaMol.]

https://www.pact-dogs.com/blog_post/pact-official-...

Copy of the letter:

Annette & I are not in the business of slating other trainers- we’d rather get on with working in a positive way, backed by science and experience. However, if you have been watching the show you might want to consider some other views.
Annette is APDT qualified. They have got together with Dogs Trust, Kennel Club, RSPCA, SRSPCA, Blue Cross, COAPE, ABTC, Batttersea and others to send the following letter to C5;
RE Dogs Behaving (Very) Badly
We have been bitterly disappointed with the advice and techniques used by dog trainer Graeme Hall in the show Dogs Behaving (Very) Badly, currently airing on Tuesday evenings at 8pm.
These outdated and dangerous methods display a limited understanding of dog behaviour and we all very strongly believe they do not have a place in modern dog training.
Our organisations currently face a very significant challenge of trying to ensure that aversive training methods are no longer promoted to dog owners as a quick fix for any unwanted behaviours in place of effective and more ethical positive reinforcement based methods. It is therefore worrying that you are promoting these practices as suitable.
We ask that you strongly reconsider airing the show, we would be pleased to support you in promoting the latest understanding of dog behaviour and appropriate training.
My (Sherree) own professional body, the IMDT have opted for a more direct approach, and have set up a meeting with C5 to discuss their concerns about the show and to see what can positively come out of all this.

Edited by parakitaMol. on Tuesday 15th December 15:50

[Ash_]

Thanks for the info, I'll no longer be watching his shows.

[parakitaMol.]

Ash_ said:

Thanks for the info, I'll no longer be watching his shows.

Ash thank you for taking the time to read this! Your dog with thank you

[Tyre Tread]

parakitaMol. said:

He uses aversive techniques (fear and punishment) and is unqualified. You will only ever see 'results' but not any cures, you will not see the fallout afterwards when dogs who have been punished and scared then get worse. He is the UK equivalent to Cesar Milan and in the dog training world he is loathed.

I would recommend not watching this awful drivel and definitely not following any of his made up drivel on your dog.

There have been campaigns and objections raised the leading dog training advocates and organisations against Channel 4 broadcasting him. C4 dropped him but C5 picked him up... the campaign resumed but C5 don't care because it is all about ratings good or bad.

So will Ch5 be running a series "How Graeme Hall F***ed up my Dog and how you should really train yours"?

If not, where can we find the correct advice on dog training please because I'm now confused.

I knew some trainers were against Cesar Milan's training methodology but hadn't heard any negatives about GH until now.

For context, we've had 5 GSD rescues over 15 years so not entirely inexperienced but always happy to learn more

[parakitaMol.]

Tyre Tread said:

parakitaMol. said:

He uses aversive techniques (fear and punishment) and is unqualified. You will only ever see 'results' but not any cures, you will not see the fallout afterwards when dogs who have been punished and scared then get worse. He is the UK equivalent to Cesar Milan and in the dog training world he is loathed.

I would recommend not watching this awful drivel and definitely not following any of his made up drivel on your dog.

There have been campaigns and objections raised the leading dog training advocates and organisations against Channel 4 broadcasting him. C4 dropped him but C5 picked him up... the campaign resumed but C5 don't care because it is all about ratings good or bad.

So will Ch5 be running a series "How Graeme Hall F***ed up my Dog and how you should really train yours"?

If not, where can we find the correct advice on dog training please because I'm now confused.

I knew some trainers were against Cesar Milan's training methodology but hadn't heard any negatives about GH until now.

For context, we've had 5 GSD rescues over 15 years so not entirely inexperienced but always happy to learn more

I know hundreds of trainers, I honestly genuinely do not know ONE who was not vehemently opposed to Cesar Milan or Graeme Hall. The reason is because unless you are a trainer or really understand the differences between training methods then as a pet owner the differences seem subtle and even aversive methods seem plausible. It is only when you really grapple with the science and psychology of training (and see the fallout from using aversives) that you become REALLY passionate about positive only training. The trouble is that aversives 'appear' to work and that is what people and TV shows want - a quick fix - you only get that with one kind of training - long term change takes work.

Thing is, good dog training takes time, behavioural intervention takes time - it's not fast food tv ratings. Most great trainers will not ever appear on tv. Because they want to boil down an intervention into a 20 minute story.

Yeah it's hard, the industry is unregulated. I recommend that people find training advice and/or a trainer from the APDT - because their accreditation and assessment process is seriously rigorous. They have a strict code of ethics and ongoing CPD to achieve continual membership. There are others but that's a great place to start. They have a great FB page and website with heaps of interesting articles and information.

At the very least, always look for people who commit to positive only training methods - never ever someone who calls themselves 'balanced' because that just means they will hurt or scare your dog into doing something.

[Tyre Tread]

parakitaMol. said:

I know hundreds of trainers, I honestly genuinely do not know ONE who was not vehemently opposed to Cesar Milan or Graeme Hall. The reason is because unless you are a trainer or really understand the differences between training methods then as a pet owner the differences seem subtle and even aversive methods seem plausible. It is only when you really grapple with the science and psychology of training (and see the fallout from using aversives) that you become REALLY passionate about positive only training. The trouble is that aversives 'appear' to work and that is what people and TV shows want - a quick fix - you only get that with one kind of training - long term change takes work.

Thing is, good dog training takes time, behavioural intervention takes time - it's not fast food tv ratings. Most great trainers will not ever appear on tv. Because they want to boil down an intervention into a 20 minute story.

Yeah it's hard, the industry is unregulated. I recommend that people find training advice and/or a trainer from the APDT - because their accreditation and assessment process is seriously rigorous. They have a strict code of ethics and ongoing CPD to achieve continual membership. There are others but that's a great place to start. They have a great FB page and website with heaps of interesting articles and information.

At the very least, always look for people who commit to positive only training methods - never ever someone who calls themselves 'balanced' because that just means they will hurt or scare your dog into doing something.

Thank you. I see we have one APDT accredited trainer nearby and will engage with them.

[Ash_]

parakitaMol. said:

Ash_ said:

Thanks for the info, I'll no longer be watching his shows.

Ash thank you for taking the time to read this! Your dog with thank you

Ah, my wife and I love dogs, but we don't have one. We lost our Lab 13 years ago and haven't got another since, as my in-laws used to look after our buy, but were too old to cope with another dog, plus we both work full time, so it wouldn't be fair on the dog.
Finally, I'm trying to get a work move back to Orlando, which means a dog would not fit that move very well, however, if it doesn't happen then we may get another one and my wife will take it to her new work.

[parakitaMol.]

You might be interested in this new study which shows the negative effects on dogs of aversive methods V positive methods.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/12/2012...