Anyone know about insect genetics?
Discussion
I admit this is a weird one, but someone may have an idea.
We have a couple of fields and in an attempt to boost the butterfly population in the last few years, we have gathered Peacock butterfly caterpillars, and reared them in the house. Currently, we have about 200 munching through nettles and are starting to pupate. Last year we did 100. It's working - Peacocks have gone from "rare" to "see at least one a day".
The idea of this is to increase the success rate which naturally is pretty tragic - about 1% I think. We get about 99% because they cannot be predated.
I have a slight worry that we are releasing a vast number of related "brothers and sisters" into the environment. Should we be worried about inbreeding? Or do insects not work like that?
We have a couple of fields and in an attempt to boost the butterfly population in the last few years, we have gathered Peacock butterfly caterpillars, and reared them in the house. Currently, we have about 200 munching through nettles and are starting to pupate. Last year we did 100. It's working - Peacocks have gone from "rare" to "see at least one a day".
The idea of this is to increase the success rate which naturally is pretty tragic - about 1% I think. We get about 99% because they cannot be predated.
I have a slight worry that we are releasing a vast number of related "brothers and sisters" into the environment. Should we be worried about inbreeding? Or do insects not work like that?
Not a lot of help I'm afraid but I can confirm insect DNA works the same way, from having to check hundreds of drugged up fruit flies for mutations, in O level biology!
As for butterfly incest, no idea. How do you know they are all related, was that from where you got the catapillers? How big an area would they spread to, and mingle with the existing population? I suppose any defects would sort themselves out (& any increase is better than none) OR they could mutate into giant Mothra like beasts that rampage through the countryside
Given what 2020 has been like so far, I wouldn't bet against it!
As for butterfly incest, no idea. How do you know they are all related, was that from where you got the catapillers? How big an area would they spread to, and mingle with the existing population? I suppose any defects would sort themselves out (& any increase is better than none) OR they could mutate into giant Mothra like beasts that rampage through the countryside
Given what 2020 has been like so far, I wouldn't bet against it!
kowalski655 said:
Not a lot of help I'm afraid but I can confirm insect DNA works the same way, from having to check hundreds of drugged up fruit flies for mutations, in O level biology!
As for butterfly incest, no idea. How do you know they are all related, was that from where you got the catapillers? How big an area would they spread to, and mingle with the existing population? I suppose any defects would sort themselves out (& any increase is better than none) OR they could mutate into giant Mothra like beasts that rampage through the countryside
Given what 2020 has been like so far, I wouldn't bet against it!
We simply grab a nettle that is loaded with small caterpillars (and possibly eggs) - I'm working on the assumption that one female lays up a nettle rather than loads of females share nettles. As for butterfly incest, no idea. How do you know they are all related, was that from where you got the catapillers? How big an area would they spread to, and mingle with the existing population? I suppose any defects would sort themselves out (& any increase is better than none) OR they could mutate into giant Mothra like beasts that rampage through the countryside
Given what 2020 has been like so far, I wouldn't bet against it!
Yes, the worry I have is that we're going to end up with 8-winged village idiot inbred mutants. I have no idea how far they spread, but it is amazing that you can release 100 butterflies, only to have them completely vanish.
I suppose the thing to do is to focus on something else next year once we have got a decent population ot Peacocks.
there have been a fair number of studies on inbreeding in insects - ants and termites are particularly interesting for how it can work.
It’s fair to say you are very very unlikely to cause any sort of issue except for creating a giant mutant strain that can carry off a Ford Ranger.
General rule seems to be: Reduction in fecundity is usually the first sign and a single generation of cross breeding removes that issue.
If there’s a serious issue then stuff just doesn’t survive
It’s fair to say you are very very unlikely to cause any sort of issue except for creating a giant mutant strain that can carry off a Ford Ranger.
General rule seems to be: Reduction in fecundity is usually the first sign and a single generation of cross breeding removes that issue.
If there’s a serious issue then stuff just doesn’t survive
Not much to document really. Taken a few photos. Apologies for the crap pics, but its a bit hard to take caterpillar photos without the wriggly blighters escaping everywhere.
Here are the residents demolishing nettles - we've got rather a lot, and we have to do 5 nettle gathering sessions a day - they'll eat all of this in a few hours:
Thankfully some of the bigger ones are starting to pupate - they climb on the roof of the cage, look like they've died for about a day, then their skin falls off to expose the pupa (green things). The pupae turn black after a few days.
In about 2 weeks time, we'll be releasing Peacocks every few hours....
We had a good look round this morning and the breeding programme is really working - several sites had caterpillars. We've netted a few of them to keep the birds off. A Blue Tit will take out an entire group of caterpillars at a single sitting.
Here are the residents demolishing nettles - we've got rather a lot, and we have to do 5 nettle gathering sessions a day - they'll eat all of this in a few hours:
Thankfully some of the bigger ones are starting to pupate - they climb on the roof of the cage, look like they've died for about a day, then their skin falls off to expose the pupa (green things). The pupae turn black after a few days.
In about 2 weeks time, we'll be releasing Peacocks every few hours....
We had a good look round this morning and the breeding programme is really working - several sites had caterpillars. We've netted a few of them to keep the birds off. A Blue Tit will take out an entire group of caterpillars at a single sitting.
take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:
kowalski655 said:
As for butterfly incest...
Bravo Sir... Bravo... you have discovered a very very rare thing. This is the first new niche porn discovered in the last 25 years...
(Just b eon the watch out for it on the Valley Forge!)
rxe said:
Not much to document really. Taken a few photos. Apologies for the crap pics, but its a bit hard to take caterpillar photos without the wriggly blighters escaping everywhere.
You can be doing graphs!! No. eggs collected
No. pupated
No. butterflies released
No. Mutant overlords created
Do random sampling in the field and then do it again next year to compare!
Yay graphs!
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