Mouse/rat poison and cats

[johnnywgk]

What would happen if a cat ate a dead mouse that died due to poisoning?

[otolith]

Potentially, it could die.

Lots of wildlife dies as a result of eating poisoned vermin.

[johnnywgk]

Phew! Just caught the neighbours cars with a dead mouse in its mouth, managed to get it off him, thank God.

[bexVN]

Bait these days tends to not be as lethal to the predator as they may once have been but they are definitely not harmless. If the cat consumed just one mouse that had been baited it is likely to be fine however the poison has a cumulative effect so if the cat found a few dead poisoned mice it could be in trouble.

In my experience though it is dogs that tend to get toxicity because they will eat the actual bait therefore increasing potency, a cat will rarely be attracted to the bait.

[johnnywgk]

Thank you

[otolith]

bexVN said:

Bait these days tends to not be as lethal to the predator as they may once have been but they are definitely not harmless. If the cat consumed just one mouse that had been baited it is likely to be fine however the poison has a cumulative effect so if the cat found a few dead poisoned mice it could be in trouble.

The second generation anticoagulant rodenticides are very high risk for secondary poisoning, though, much more so than the older products, but shouldn't be in the hands of the general public - you might be seeing better regulation and control there rather than less dangerous poisons. They have had huge problems with the new poisons killing wildlife in less well regulated regimes.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/downloads/er-sgar....

[Mr Pointy]

otolith said:

The second generation anticoagulant rodenticides are very high risk for secondary poisoning, though, much more so than the older products, but shouldn't be in the hands of the general public - you might be seeing better regulation and control there rather than less dangerous poisons. They have had huge problems with the new poisons killing wildlife in less well regulated regimes.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/downloads/er-sgar....

You can get poisons containing Bromadiolone & Difenacoum from Amazon or ebay - there's no restrictions on sale to the public:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roshield-Killer-Poison-Co...

[otolith]

Mr Pointy said:

You can get poisons containing Bromadiolone & Difenacoum from Amazon or ebay - there's no restrictions on sale to the public:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roshield-Killer-Poison-Co...

So you can. How is that even allowed? What's the point in HSE putting restrictions on professional use if any moron can buy it on Amazon?

https://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/eu-bpr/rodenticide...

[Mr Pointy]

otolith said:

Mr Pointy said:

You can get poisons containing Bromadiolone & Difenacoum from Amazon or ebay - there's no restrictions on sale to the public:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roshield-Killer-Poison-Co...

So you can. How is that even allowed? What's the point in HSE putting restrictions on professional use if any moron can buy it on Amazon?

https://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/eu-bpr/rodenticide...

Maybe the professional stuff is stronger?

[bexVN]

otolith said:

The second generation anticoagulant rodenticides are very high risk for secondary poisoning, though, much more so than the older products, but shouldn't be in the hands of the general public - you might be seeing better regulation and control there rather than less dangerous poisons. They have had huge problems with the new poisons killing wildlife in less well regulated regimes.

https://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/downloads/er-sgar....

That is probably the case then. We rarely see cases of fatal toxicity these days due to eating a baited mouse or rat still more common that it is the bait itself that is ingested (so usually dogs more than cats) and even then we can successfully treat due to the amounts eaten being quite low and generally a one off.

Obviously though that doesn't mean we should not seek advice especially if we suspect ingestion or shows symptoms but secondary poisons are rare.

Still better that OP was able to remove the mouse though!!

Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 10th March 19:16

[nute]

Mr Pointy said:

You can get poisons containing Bromadiolone & Difenacoum from Amazon or ebay - there's no restrictions on sale to the public:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Roshield-Killer-Poison-Co...

There are restrictions, you can only buy small pack quantities without some form of qualification. Of course you could just buy 10 small packs one after the other but to purchase large packs you need to be a pest controller or a farmer etc who has done a govt approved course.

A cat would have to eat quite a number of rodents for it to be in any danger. The problem comes with lower body weight predators like owls where the number needed to be lethal is much lower.

Unfortunately in many cases control of rats is very difficult without using poisons.

[Chester35]

There is no easy way to kill a "pest" but poisoning is the worst and cannot be morally supported.

Apart from when an entire island is infected by rats and mice being brought ashore by humans, such is in South Georgia and then the morals have to be put on the back burner for the sake of all other wildlife.

From exterminating whales to exterminating rats ..... makes you think.

You don't have to worry about your pet moggy if you don't use this technique..

Surely the cat is all you need? My mum who worked in a mill in Lancashire looked after her "mousers" as she called them. That is the way to go ...

It's called nature. Consider buying a cat who can get off the sofa ????


"Phew! Just caught the neighbours cars with a dead mouse in its mouth, managed to get it off him, thank God"


This thread is completely insane.

Edited by Chester35 on Saturday 14th March 11:22

[Mr Pointy]

Chester35 said:

Surely the cat is all you need? My mum who worked in a mill in Lancashire looked after her "mousers" as she called them. That is the way to go ...

It's called nature. Consider buying a cat who can get off the sofa ????

This thread is completely insane.

What about the local bird population that gets decimated by your cat? It's not 'nature' when you introduce pet cats to an environment.

Properly sited bait boxes are far less damging to the overall ecosystem.

[otolith]

bexVN said:

That is probably the case then. We rarely see cases of fatal toxicity these days due to eating a baited mouse or rat still more common that it is the bait itself that is ingested (so usually dogs more than cats) and even then we can successfully treat due to the amounts eaten being quite low and generally a one off.

Obviously though that doesn't mean we should not seek advice especially if we suspect ingestion or shows symptoms but secondary poisons are rare.

This is an interesting point with respect to poisoning of raptors;

nute said:

A cat would have to eat quite a number of rodents for it to be in any danger. The problem comes with lower body weight predators like owls where the number needed to be lethal is much lower.

[otolith]

Mr Pointy said:

Chester35 said:

Surely the cat is all you need? My mum who worked in a mill in Lancashire looked after her "mousers" as she called them. That is the way to go ...

It's called nature. Consider buying a cat who can get off the sofa ????

This thread is completely insane.

What about the local bird population that gets decimated by your cat? It's not 'nature' when you introduce pet cats to an environment.

Properly sited bait boxes are far less damging to the overall ecosystem.

My neighbour was very pleased that I moved in with two cats, because she'd been trying and failing to deal with a mouse problem for a long time. She'll never be free of them, we live on a river bank, but the cats have made a difference. Mine are too old for chasing birds now, but even when they were young they went after rodents more than birds. To be honest, they were welcome to the rats, the voles, mice and small birds have reproductive strategies which mitigate high predation mortality (and to a large extent the ecological point of a vole is to turn grass into meat), the only thing I was really pissed off at them for eating was the slow worms. Still, more often than not they shed their tail and escaped.