"KC Registered" - Free for all?
Discussion
Evening all.
We're looking at another dog to add to the Ark and in particular, we're looking at a little Frenchie pup.
We've always bought dogs from breeders that have come recommended by friends, family etc. but we've never bought a dog "with papers" and it's got me thinking.
among the many, many scam artists out there offering dogs are prices that are quite clearly not right there is the odd one that i'll follow up.
I've never understood the whole KC Registered thing apart from i'm aware that it's a recognised body that cares about the breeds and the history of the dogs' families etc.
Of course anyone can put "KC Registered" on an advert and rely on the unsuspecting buyer being overcome with the thought of a new dog but how do you follow up? I've read through the site and there are multiple levels of membership - of course there is.
To verify would one simply call them up, give the details on the certificate that comes with the pup and that's it done and done? Or is it just a minefield?
I wouldn't normally bother but for this one we might consider breeding for one litter or if we go down the mae route we might allow him to stud (is that the correct terminology?)
Thanks all.
We're looking at another dog to add to the Ark and in particular, we're looking at a little Frenchie pup.
We've always bought dogs from breeders that have come recommended by friends, family etc. but we've never bought a dog "with papers" and it's got me thinking.
among the many, many scam artists out there offering dogs are prices that are quite clearly not right there is the odd one that i'll follow up.
I've never understood the whole KC Registered thing apart from i'm aware that it's a recognised body that cares about the breeds and the history of the dogs' families etc.
Of course anyone can put "KC Registered" on an advert and rely on the unsuspecting buyer being overcome with the thought of a new dog but how do you follow up? I've read through the site and there are multiple levels of membership - of course there is.
To verify would one simply call them up, give the details on the certificate that comes with the pup and that's it done and done? Or is it just a minefield?
I wouldn't normally bother but for this one we might consider breeding for one litter or if we go down the mae route we might allow him to stud (is that the correct terminology?)
Thanks all.
Be wary of any "on trend" breed, which Frenchies are right now....
KC can also mean inbreeding and "possibly" nervous highly strung show dogs....
Not always of course, but do your due diligence and ask around the breed club and fb groups about the particular group.
My last 2 Fox Terriers both came from Breed champions, and whilst we loved them, they were very high maintenance.
KC can also mean inbreeding and "possibly" nervous highly strung show dogs....
Not always of course, but do your due diligence and ask around the breed club and fb groups about the particular group.
My last 2 Fox Terriers both came from Breed champions, and whilst we loved them, they were very high maintenance.
Turn7 said:
Be wary of any "on trend" breed, which Frenchies are right now....
KC can also mean inbreeding and "possibly" nervous highly strung show dogs....
Not always of course, but do your due diligence and ask around the breed club and fb groups about the particular group.
My last 2 Fox Terriers both came from Breed champions, and whilst we loved them, they were very high maintenance.
Thanks for that, I agree that they are “in” at the moment and the prices reflect that. We have a couple of other dogs, a wee pug and a Camacho which suffer the same stigma but we did our research and things worked out. KC can also mean inbreeding and "possibly" nervous highly strung show dogs....
Not always of course, but do your due diligence and ask around the breed club and fb groups about the particular group.
My last 2 Fox Terriers both came from Breed champions, and whilst we loved them, they were very high maintenance.
A few of. My friends have frenchies, including one that apparently is a “quad” - meaning that he can produce any colour. Any litter from his bloodline are eye watering if expensive and I don’t see the point unless they are being shown. There is of course those that use these poor animals as a status symbol and that winds me up, but it is what it is.
We’ve got 2 KC registered dogs, health testing isn’t a requirement to breed/test but they won’t register certain colours in some breeds (such as Merle in Bulldogs) but breeders can try to get around that with the description of the colour. There are some caveats which can bring some standards to the breeding such as no father/daughter, mum/son breeding - max number of litters per b
h and some age limits.
Other than that if your not planning on breeding / showing I’m not sure there’s much benefit to it - (you can get a nice 5 generation certificate which is like a family tree) and normally insurance through them free for the first few weeks (after this they’ll hound you with offers to continue it but still at a really high cost).
Registration transfer can be done online nowadays so you’d know the number on the certificate is genuine - I’m sure the whole thing is still open to abuse though.
Ultimately look for a healthy pup from someone you feel comfortable with. There are lots of genuine breeders out there whether doing it as as a living / hobby or one off, just a matter of finding them.
h and some age limits.Other than that if your not planning on breeding / showing I’m not sure there’s much benefit to it - (you can get a nice 5 generation certificate which is like a family tree) and normally insurance through them free for the first few weeks (after this they’ll hound you with offers to continue it but still at a really high cost).
Registration transfer can be done online nowadays so you’d know the number on the certificate is genuine - I’m sure the whole thing is still open to abuse though.
Ultimately look for a healthy pup from someone you feel comfortable with. There are lots of genuine breeders out there whether doing it as as a living / hobby or one off, just a matter of finding them.
Edited by arcticGT on Saturday 18th January 09:30
When i sell pups i always have the puppy kc papers here to show.
I would deffintley do your research on the breeder as the amount of dodgy breeders is at an all time high. A lot of breeders add extra papers on when registering a litter as in for instance they have 5 pups but register 7 pups. Papers are £17 each pup but in a years time them 2 sets of papers will be worth £500 to a £1000 each.
I would deffintley do your research on the breeder as the amount of dodgy breeders is at an all time high. A lot of breeders add extra papers on when registering a litter as in for instance they have 5 pups but register 7 pups. Papers are £17 each pup but in a years time them 2 sets of papers will be worth £500 to a £1000 each.
Jasandjules said:
Worry less about papers than the health test results for the breed.
Thanks.. the more I read the more this comes up and the more adverts I read the more suspicious I become. This one for example. Private message, dad is from another country so can't verify so I then assume a health report isn't possible..
https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/french-bulldog-pupp...
And yes, gumtree.
The KC seem to ignore some awful health traits that get carried down the breed lines. I'd treat a KC badge with a pinch of salt. You've no idea what you're buying or the morality/honesty of the breeder. It's worse then buying a new car, a lot worse imo. Fashion dogs will always be very high risk given the profits involved.
Davie_GLA said:
Thanks.. the more I read the more this comes up and the more adverts I read the more suspicious I become.
Consider this - we have test results for heart, hips, diabetes, eyes. X-Rays and documents can be provided to prospective owners. We can show the lines going back 4 generations at least. It cost us well over 1k to get those results. Anyone who can't show you the test results (and "Vet checked" means nothing to me, I want actual tests undertaken as appropriate for the breed), well, do they have them? I would want to see them. Also just as an aside there seems little reason why the dad is in another country, AI is difficult, expensive and comes with additional problems in relation to the KC registration etc. I would ask the sell WHY they used AI, I would expect them to know for example there is a super healthy line being used or it is because the COI is low etc.. Something.
Jasandjules said:
Consider this - we have test results for heart, hips, diabetes, eyes. X-Rays and documents can be provided to prospective owners. We can show the lines going back 4 generations at least. It cost us well over 1k to get those results. Anyone who can't show you the test results (and "Vet checked" means nothing to me, I want actual tests undertaken as appropriate for the breed), well, do they have them? I would want to see them.
Also just as an aside there seems little reason why the dad is in another country, AI is difficult, expensive and comes with additional problems in relation to the KC registration etc. I would ask the sell WHY they used AI, I would expect them to know for example there is a super healthy line being used or it is because the COI is low etc.. Something.
Thanks. AI i figured out once i got over the thought of lots of little Frenchie shaped robots using machine learning to figure our what one is right for him Also just as an aside there seems little reason why the dad is in another country, AI is difficult, expensive and comes with additional problems in relation to the KC registration etc. I would ask the sell WHY they used AI, I would expect them to know for example there is a super healthy line being used or it is because the COI is low etc.. Something.
COI?
Jasandjules said:
Coefficient of Inbreeding. We make sure we are 1% or so max to try to ensure good genetic spread. It does take a lot more work but totally worth it to us, hopefully the longer term health will be clear.
Thank you - learned something new today. If it's OK, can I drop you a PM with some other questions ?
[quote=Davie_GLA
https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/french-bulldog-pupp...
And yes, gumtree.
[/quote]
According to that ad, they haven’t even been born yet.
https://www.gumtree.com/p/dogs/french-bulldog-pupp...
And yes, gumtree.
[/quote]
According to that ad, they haven’t even been born yet.
susanq said:
According to that ad, they haven’t even been born yet.
That is a scam for sure, for some reason all dog scams come from up Scotland.My pet transport company i ran a few years ago got roped into a few of the scams. You send money to them and then they will give you details of a pet transport company. I had to deal with some very upset people back then.
Regarding the date of birth, this could easily be a typo. Although attention to detail and all that!
They don't appear to be able to register the pups with the KC because the parents are imported. The way the advert is worded seems to suggest that English is not first language, but I could be wrong.
They clearly have not registered the imported parents, why? who knows but in real terms it is not hard to do, provided you have the correct paperwork.
The parents may very well be registered in the country of birth but with all these things it is a leap of faith and an expensive one to boot.
Personally I would look elsewhere.
Edited to Add: Yes, Scotland and Ireland have a bad reputation in farming / scams; so I would look for proof, recommendations, parents tests etc before even a deposit, all which can be done on email.
They don't appear to be able to register the pups with the KC because the parents are imported. The way the advert is worded seems to suggest that English is not first language, but I could be wrong.
They clearly have not registered the imported parents, why? who knows but in real terms it is not hard to do, provided you have the correct paperwork.
The parents may very well be registered in the country of birth but with all these things it is a leap of faith and an expensive one to boot.
Personally I would look elsewhere.
Edited to Add: Yes, Scotland and Ireland have a bad reputation in farming / scams; so I would look for proof, recommendations, parents tests etc before even a deposit, all which can be done on email.
Edited by carinatauk on Thursday 23 January 12:40
Thanks all. We pulled the trigger tonight and welcome a lovely wee thing into the ark in a couple of weeks.
Pics to follow, will start a new thread as I guess this can be informative for others. I read for hours and hours and am still nowhere near close to understanding all of the breed related / bloodline stuff. This one has a stack of docs and some family tree thing mapping out the last 5 generations,
Pics to follow, will start a new thread as I guess this can be informative for others. I read for hours and hours and am still nowhere near close to understanding all of the breed related / bloodline stuff. This one has a stack of docs and some family tree thing mapping out the last 5 generations,
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