Newbie aquarium
Discussion
So we've come back from holiday with a desire to see more fish. Can anyone give some basic advice as to where to start?
My first thought is to get a tank from gumtree or wherever but then freshwater or salt? Heated or not?
I want to see pretty fish - not just silver or goldfish - does this limit us to tropical? Not fussed about size though.
In terms of tank size, we could probably fit something about the size of a 42" TV.
Thanks in advance.
My first thought is to get a tank from gumtree or wherever but then freshwater or salt? Heated or not?
I want to see pretty fish - not just silver or goldfish - does this limit us to tropical? Not fussed about size though.
In terms of tank size, we could probably fit something about the size of a 42" TV.
Thanks in advance.
OK I'll start:
Don't begin with marine - stick to freshwater tropical.
A 42" (diagonal) TV would be about the same size as a 3ft tank; a good size to start with, and there are lots of complete setups to choose from (ie tank, stand, heater, hood with lights, filter etc). If you buy second-hand check for leaks. Easily fixed with special aquarium silicone sealant provided it's empty and dry. Much harder when it's already been filled in the lounge!
Decide where the tank is going; it needs to be out of direct sunlight and near a mains socket.
Most important is not to introduce any fish before the tank is "cycled" ie the right bacteria are present to convert waste nitrogen compounds into relatively harmless nitrate. Lots of info on that here and elsewhere.
What kind of tap water do you have? (ie hard or soft?)
Don't begin with marine - stick to freshwater tropical.
A 42" (diagonal) TV would be about the same size as a 3ft tank; a good size to start with, and there are lots of complete setups to choose from (ie tank, stand, heater, hood with lights, filter etc). If you buy second-hand check for leaks. Easily fixed with special aquarium silicone sealant provided it's empty and dry. Much harder when it's already been filled in the lounge!
Decide where the tank is going; it needs to be out of direct sunlight and near a mains socket.
Most important is not to introduce any fish before the tank is "cycled" ie the right bacteria are present to convert waste nitrogen compounds into relatively harmless nitrate. Lots of info on that here and elsewhere.
What kind of tap water do you have? (ie hard or soft?)
Edited by Nimby on Saturday 24th August 17:17
Nimby said:
OK I'll start:
Don't begin with marine - stick to freshwater tropical.
A 42" (diagonal) TV would be about the same size as a 3ft tank; a good size to start with, and there are lots of complete setups to choose from (ie tank, stand, heater, hood with lights, filter etc). If you buy second-hand check for leaks. Easily fixed with special aquarium silicone sealant provided it's empty and dry. Much harder when it's already been filled in the lounge!
Decide where the tank is going; it needs to be out of direct sunlight and near a mains socket.
Most important is not to introduce any fish before the tank is "cycled" ie the right bacteria are present to convert waste nitrogen compounds into relatively harmless nitrate. Lots of info on that here and elsewhere.
What kind of tap water do you have? (ie hard or soft?)
I agree with the get freshwater experience before going marine advice, however IMHO, time has moved on since the archaic, chemist-degree-required fish out cycling days for freshwater tanks. With a novice this process can go on for ever.Don't begin with marine - stick to freshwater tropical.
A 42" (diagonal) TV would be about the same size as a 3ft tank; a good size to start with, and there are lots of complete setups to choose from (ie tank, stand, heater, hood with lights, filter etc). If you buy second-hand check for leaks. Easily fixed with special aquarium silicone sealant provided it's empty and dry. Much harder when it's already been filled in the lounge!
Decide where the tank is going; it needs to be out of direct sunlight and near a mains socket.
Most important is not to introduce any fish before the tank is "cycled" ie the right bacteria are present to convert waste nitrogen compounds into relatively harmless nitrate. Lots of info on that here and elsewhere.
What kind of tap water do you have? (ie hard or soft?)
Edited by Nimby on Saturday 24th August 17:17
There are products available today to enable a comfortable fish-in cycling process used by many fish keepers including me on many occasions. Tetra Safe Start is one example that enables fish-in cycling, and personally I have never had an issue with unexpected sick or dead fish using that product.
My approach would be similar to the traditional way of building up fish stock levels over time, except start with the first batch immediately as directed by the instructions on the Safe Start bottle. Also, Safe Start is not only a startup product, it can be used as an interim solution for cycling issues - such as when the fish-out process fails over and over again
Thanks for the comments. Our water is mildly hard.
What's this about fish-out cycling? Where do you put them whilst you're doing this?
Also, what are the sort of fish you can get for freshwater? We were in a garden centre this afternoon and all the freshwater looked like miniature sport fishing fish compared to the brightly coloured marine fish.
What's this about fish-out cycling? Where do you put them whilst you're doing this?
Also, what are the sort of fish you can get for freshwater? We were in a garden centre this afternoon and all the freshwater looked like miniature sport fishing fish compared to the brightly coloured marine fish.
+1 on starting with tropical freshwater, and an aquarium of at least 100 litres. The bigger the better as a larger water volume is more stable and give you more options in terms of fish.
Marine tanks are sexy but expensive and maintenance intensive, and have a fish capacity far, far lower than a freshwater aquarium of the same size. A lot of the prettier marine fish are the hardest to keep healthy.
If you want impact, it's a personal thing, but a shoal of many small colourful fish is far more impressive than two or three larger showpiece fish.
Marine tanks are sexy but expensive and maintenance intensive, and have a fish capacity far, far lower than a freshwater aquarium of the same size. A lot of the prettier marine fish are the hardest to keep healthy.
If you want impact, it's a personal thing, but a shoal of many small colourful fish is far more impressive than two or three larger showpiece fish.
A quick Google found me this - https://m.petmd.com/fish/care/7-freshwater-fish-ar...
Which then throws up questions about mixes of species etc. To be honest, I'm really looking for a simple recommendation for a set up to suit a tank max 110wx60hx40d (cm). Ideally with a shoal of 10 or so brightly coloured small fish.
I know there's a million possibilities so just one that works would be great!
Which then throws up questions about mixes of species etc. To be honest, I'm really looking for a simple recommendation for a set up to suit a tank max 110wx60hx40d (cm). Ideally with a shoal of 10 or so brightly coloured small fish.
I know there's a million possibilities so just one that works would be great!
marcg said:
What's this about fish-out cycling? Where do you put them whilst you're doing this?
You set up the tank then add the fish once the water is ready.We inherited a load of fish earlier this year and unexpectedly had to set up a new tank the same day - was probably not ideal for the fish but we didn’t lose any, changed half the water every other day and added loads of safe start - still took a few weeks for the nitrite to spike then drop significantly.
I’d buy a tank, heater, lamp, pump, substrate, loads of plants, Seachem Prime or API Safe Start and an API test kit (the strips are less faff than the dropper kits). Read up on the aquarium nitrogen cycle and leave the tank for a little while - once the ammonium and nitrate are at safe levels you can add some fish.
We have what seem regarded as ‘easy’ fish (tetra, danio, platy) and they are all getting on fine. Maybe start with those sorts of fish before dabbling further. I understand that fish with long fins are potentially problematic as the others can nip them.
Also get all female platy unless you want LOTS of platys
bigger water volumes are way mor stable and dont get wild parameter fluctuations like smaller volumes....
Get some decent external filtration - Eheim for eg, add stock very slowly and use something like Dr Tims to kick start the cycle.
Get a decent water test kit -NOT strips, do a min 25% weekly water change.
Use Seachem Prime or similar as dechlorinator and also check thw ater being added isnt wildly different to tank specs.
Do not add a million fish in one go, do not believe anything ANYONE in Maidenhead Aquatics (or most other LFS) as they know less than you do...
Ask on here , quite a few good and expereinced aquatic guys, for any qureies.....
Take it slow and enjoy it, google any stcok yuo are considering adding to the tank as the LFS will have lied about compatability in your tank....
Personally, for a relative noob, I would say go for a Barb tank with Corydoras on a soft sand substrate with a mix of live and plastic plants, YMMV....
Any questions, ask here before doing anything yo are not sure about.....
ATB, fishkeeping is great fun and very rewarding if done correctly....
Get some decent external filtration - Eheim for eg, add stock very slowly and use something like Dr Tims to kick start the cycle.
Get a decent water test kit -NOT strips, do a min 25% weekly water change.
Use Seachem Prime or similar as dechlorinator and also check thw ater being added isnt wildly different to tank specs.
Do not add a million fish in one go, do not believe anything ANYONE in Maidenhead Aquatics (or most other LFS) as they know less than you do...
Ask on here , quite a few good and expereinced aquatic guys, for any qureies.....
Take it slow and enjoy it, google any stcok yuo are considering adding to the tank as the LFS will have lied about compatability in your tank....
Personally, for a relative noob, I would say go for a Barb tank with Corydoras on a soft sand substrate with a mix of live and plastic plants, YMMV....
Any questions, ask here before doing anything yo are not sure about.....
ATB, fishkeeping is great fun and very rewarding if done correctly....
marcg said:
A quick Google found me this - https://m.petmd.com/fish/care/7-freshwater-fish-ar...
Which then throws up questions about mixes of species etc. To be honest, I'm really looking for a simple recommendation for a set up to suit a tank max 110wx60hx40d (cm). Ideally with a shoal of 10 or so brightly coloured small fish.
I know there's a million possibilities so just one that works would be great!
A combination I personally like, and have kept for many years in the past is Rummy-Nosed Tetra and Black Widow Tetra. Both peaceful, both elegant, both easy care. Have a few Corydoras sp. for bottom interest. I haven't done any proper calculations, but I'd guess you could manage shoal of at least 10 of each of the tetras and half-a-dozen Corydoras. That sounds quite conservative, you should have room to grow that stocking list further once things settle down and you get the hang of maintaining the tank.Which then throws up questions about mixes of species etc. To be honest, I'm really looking for a simple recommendation for a set up to suit a tank max 110wx60hx40d (cm). Ideally with a shoal of 10 or so brightly coloured small fish.
I know there's a million possibilities so just one that works would be great!
Get some decent lights, go with an inch or so of playsand on the base, and use real plants - they look better and they help keep the water fresh by absorbing nutrients from the fish waste. Playsand is a really easy, no nonsense substrate. It's easy to keep clean, many easy plants will thrive in it, and it's cheap as chips.
Spend some evenings reading the forums on www.plantedtank.net
I'd second much of the above. Tetra shoals are great. Black Phantoms were one of the best additions I ever made to my tank. The males do great little show downs with each other, flaring up their fins and measuring each other up, but it never comes to anything - just posturing.
I've had a 110 litre tank for almost a decade and kepts tonnes of different stuff with varying success, but I've had the same tetra shoals for donkeys - the ones I have seem really hardy.
I'm not as fussed about bottom feeders - so as a slightly different preference to the previous poster, I'd go with something like the following for a 20gallon long style tank (100litres +):
8 Black Phantom Tetra, plus 8 Cardinal/Rummynose/Glowlight Tetra (pick the one species you most prefer) to shoal in the middle, a single Pearl or Dwarf Gourami (I love a male Pearl, but the striped dwarf is a really impressively coloured fish) to patrol the top level. If you keep yourself really strict on water changes and monitor things really closely, you could then probably get away with a pair of dwarf cichlids, so maybe a mixed sex pair of Bolivian Rams (or german blue rams if you prefer), or a pair of the Apistogramma species (agasizzi (sp) is one of my faves).
That would give you a couple of nice small sized centre piece fish that will show off the odd bit of aggressive/courting behaviours (meaning you get lots of nice colours), and hopefully a constant fluttering shoal of smaller fish going back and forward. Start with one of the tetra groups, get into the habit of routine water changes and maintaining parameters, then add the rest of the tetra, let things settle down again, then go for the gourami after a month or so, and introduce the more territorial fish like the rams last.
I've had a 110 litre tank for almost a decade and kepts tonnes of different stuff with varying success, but I've had the same tetra shoals for donkeys - the ones I have seem really hardy.
I'm not as fussed about bottom feeders - so as a slightly different preference to the previous poster, I'd go with something like the following for a 20gallon long style tank (100litres +):
8 Black Phantom Tetra, plus 8 Cardinal/Rummynose/Glowlight Tetra (pick the one species you most prefer) to shoal in the middle, a single Pearl or Dwarf Gourami (I love a male Pearl, but the striped dwarf is a really impressively coloured fish) to patrol the top level. If you keep yourself really strict on water changes and monitor things really closely, you could then probably get away with a pair of dwarf cichlids, so maybe a mixed sex pair of Bolivian Rams (or german blue rams if you prefer), or a pair of the Apistogramma species (agasizzi (sp) is one of my faves).
That would give you a couple of nice small sized centre piece fish that will show off the odd bit of aggressive/courting behaviours (meaning you get lots of nice colours), and hopefully a constant fluttering shoal of smaller fish going back and forward. Start with one of the tetra groups, get into the habit of routine water changes and maintaining parameters, then add the rest of the tetra, let things settle down again, then go for the gourami after a month or so, and introduce the more territorial fish like the rams last.
From personal experience-
-Stick with tropical freshwater
-Go with the largest tank you can physically fit into wherever you are putting it... 100L+ ideally. I had a 60l tank and the weekely water changes and fluctuating water chemistry get old very fast.... a bigger volume of water is more stable, less vulnerable to fish disease outbreaks etc and requires less maintenance once fully cycled.
-Guppies look pretty, but aren't particularly hardy, expect to lose a few.
-cherry shrimp are a great easy addition and fun to watch
-DO NOT use fish to cycle the tank when you set it up... do your reading and buy all of the chemical testing kits etc. A tank takes 2-4 weeks to cycle properly without using anything to accelerate it
-hard water can make a bit of a mess of the inside of the tank, expect to be cleaning it quite often if you live in a hard water area
-further to above, your water hardness will dictate to an extent which fish you can keep.
Basically, do an absolute ton of reading before you buy anything, then do some more reading and research... then go tank shopping.
It's fun keeping fish, but it's a lot of work and hassle... they require far more care than you would first think.
For that reason i stopped keeping them a few years back... if i get a small pet again, it'll be a bearded dragon, far easier to keep!
-Stick with tropical freshwater
-Go with the largest tank you can physically fit into wherever you are putting it... 100L+ ideally. I had a 60l tank and the weekely water changes and fluctuating water chemistry get old very fast.... a bigger volume of water is more stable, less vulnerable to fish disease outbreaks etc and requires less maintenance once fully cycled.
-Guppies look pretty, but aren't particularly hardy, expect to lose a few.
-cherry shrimp are a great easy addition and fun to watch
-DO NOT use fish to cycle the tank when you set it up... do your reading and buy all of the chemical testing kits etc. A tank takes 2-4 weeks to cycle properly without using anything to accelerate it
-hard water can make a bit of a mess of the inside of the tank, expect to be cleaning it quite often if you live in a hard water area
-further to above, your water hardness will dictate to an extent which fish you can keep.
Basically, do an absolute ton of reading before you buy anything, then do some more reading and research... then go tank shopping.
It's fun keeping fish, but it's a lot of work and hassle... they require far more care than you would first think.
For that reason i stopped keeping them a few years back... if i get a small pet again, it'll be a bearded dragon, far easier to keep!
Fishless cycling isn't rocket science. Set your tank up minus fish, with dechlorinator. Buy a test kit. Buy a source of ammonia. Dose tank with enough ammonia to get 4ppm. Test it daily for ammonia and add more when it tests zero. Once it drops from 4ppm to 0ppm overnight, continue topping up and start to test for nitrite. If it's getting from 4ppm ammonia to zero ammonia and zero nitrite by the next day, you're done. Do a water change with dechorinated water and add your fish. It will take about a month. If you want to try speeding it up, add something like Dr Tim's One & Only cultured bacteria at the start.
You can test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from the start if you really want to monitor the process, but it's not really necessary.
You can test for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate from the start if you really want to monitor the process, but it's not really necessary.
otolith said:
Buy a source of ammonia.
Strictly speaking, it's not necessary to purchase this. There's a readily available source of free nitrogen that works pretty well for cycling.Have we covered filtration yet? Having tried most of the options in the past, if I was starting up again I'd go for an external canister filter with an inline heater. It keeps the inside of the tank far neater and less cluttered. Avoid tanks with built-in filtration units - they're never hold enough filter but always take up too much room.
You can pee in your tank, but bear in mind that unlike fish humans do not excrete ammonia, they excrete urea. I think most nitrifying bacteria *can* use urea, but they don't all like it equally, so you may not end up with an ideal bacterial community to deal with fish piss.
The old school way, of chucking in some decomposing matter, also works and has the advantage of also feeding heterotrophic bacteria, but it's hard to control, potentially stinky and has always caused me to worry a bit about loading the tank up with Saprolegnia spores.
The old school way, of chucking in some decomposing matter, also works and has the advantage of also feeding heterotrophic bacteria, but it's hard to control, potentially stinky and has always caused me to worry a bit about loading the tank up with Saprolegnia spores.
Best advice for anyone thinking fish will be a good idea - give it a couple of weeks and see if you are still interested.
The VAST majority of hobby tanks (fresh and salt) look grim. Dirty water, unhappy fish. To do it right and have a great looking tank takes a lot of work.
99% of people walking into the garden centre and picking up a starter kit are doing the fish equivalent of going to a puppy farm.
Fresh is certainly easier (unless you go planted/co2/etc) but don't expect hundreds of shoaling tetras in a little tank and without serious planning get used to gear on display in the tank meaning it won't have quite the "underwater world" look of stuff you see on the internet.
If you are REALLY into it - it's a great hobby, but millions of fish die every year getting to the shops and most of them die soon after someone buys them! So go into like any pet.....eyes wide open!
Best advice I ever gave anyone looking at my BIG reef tank and saying they where interested in doing something similar was.....sure, you ready to convert your garage into a sump room and drop more on setting it up than your car is worth? Then you are 5% there.....now just sort out years of research, running costs, holiday cover, the list goes on. They would then go off and buy a hamster for their kids to neglect to death instead!
The VAST majority of hobby tanks (fresh and salt) look grim. Dirty water, unhappy fish. To do it right and have a great looking tank takes a lot of work.
99% of people walking into the garden centre and picking up a starter kit are doing the fish equivalent of going to a puppy farm.
Fresh is certainly easier (unless you go planted/co2/etc) but don't expect hundreds of shoaling tetras in a little tank and without serious planning get used to gear on display in the tank meaning it won't have quite the "underwater world" look of stuff you see on the internet.
If you are REALLY into it - it's a great hobby, but millions of fish die every year getting to the shops and most of them die soon after someone buys them! So go into like any pet.....eyes wide open!
Best advice I ever gave anyone looking at my BIG reef tank and saying they where interested in doing something similar was.....sure, you ready to convert your garage into a sump room and drop more on setting it up than your car is worth? Then you are 5% there.....now just sort out years of research, running costs, holiday cover, the list goes on. They would then go off and buy a hamster for their kids to neglect to death instead!
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