Discussion
Looking for info , been advised by breeder not to use lepto 4 vaccine ...
have used it in the past , and wondered if it could have been a factor in a healthy dog developing diabetes ,
had no problems before using lepto 2..
also heard yearly booster causing epilepsy and not really needed ever year ?? maybe use every 3 years ..
vets using the excuse of yearly vacs to make money...???
https://www.doglistener.co.uk/annual-dog-vaccinati...
have used it in the past , and wondered if it could have been a factor in a healthy dog developing diabetes ,
had no problems before using lepto 2..
also heard yearly booster causing epilepsy and not really needed ever year ?? maybe use every 3 years ..
vets using the excuse of yearly vacs to make money...???
https://www.doglistener.co.uk/annual-dog-vaccinati...
Edited by road hog on Thursday 11th July 10:40
Edited by road hog on Thursday 11th July 10:43
There's a lot of BS spread about the risk of L4 - especially by some breeders, some of which love to voice strong opinions based upon no evidence.
No treatment is risk free. I've never seen a serious vaccine reaction. I've seen a couple of minor/trivial reactions in 15 years.
However, I've seen plenty of dogs die from leptospirosis. I recently had a dog die with distemper too, which whilst he had been vaccinated previously it had lapsed for 6 years or so.
No treatment is risk free. I've never seen a serious vaccine reaction. I've seen a couple of minor/trivial reactions in 15 years.
However, I've seen plenty of dogs die from leptospirosis. I recently had a dog die with distemper too, which whilst he had been vaccinated previously it had lapsed for 6 years or so.
[quote=Jasandjules]https://dogsfirst.ie/leptospirosis-vaccine-killing-hundreds-of-dogs/
[/quote
Not surprisingly, a rather sensationalist article from a source relying on predominantly unsubstatiated reports, which has not been borne out in my 32 year experience. Not 1 single reaction associated with serious illness. (yes there have been local reactions found in any injection site) Does this remond you of the lies associated with the MMR vaccine which has now rsiulted in a significant rise in the cases of measles in the UK? How many dogs died from lepto in my 32 years? I think 7 maybe 8 confirmed while under care of practices that i have been in.
So, is yearly lepto vaccination a simple rip off by vets? Given that general recommendation for 3 out of 4 major vaccine components has reduced to give every 3 or 4 years, I don't think that's quite fair.
Having seen so much disease due to parvo and distemper especially, I would vaccinate all my dogs annualy for this despite the 3 or 4 year recommendation. Lepto also gets done annually for me, if I had to drop one it would be for adenovirus as I have only seen 3 or 4 cases in my career.
I think you would be daft to not vaccinate, if you think the veterinary profession is ripping you off (as the price for human omeprazole mentioned in another thread here shows, and reflects a stupid element in how my profession charges some prices), thenvote with your feet and don't protect your dog. I know how I would vote, whether it cost me or not!
Also, bear in mind that some people do ascribe to every conspiracy theory out there........if I knew anyone who hadn't vaccinated their kids for MMR who then contracted any of the diseases, I would advocate charges relating to negligence.
Same applies to DHLP
[/quote
Not surprisingly, a rather sensationalist article from a source relying on predominantly unsubstatiated reports, which has not been borne out in my 32 year experience. Not 1 single reaction associated with serious illness. (yes there have been local reactions found in any injection site) Does this remond you of the lies associated with the MMR vaccine which has now rsiulted in a significant rise in the cases of measles in the UK? How many dogs died from lepto in my 32 years? I think 7 maybe 8 confirmed while under care of practices that i have been in.
So, is yearly lepto vaccination a simple rip off by vets? Given that general recommendation for 3 out of 4 major vaccine components has reduced to give every 3 or 4 years, I don't think that's quite fair.
Having seen so much disease due to parvo and distemper especially, I would vaccinate all my dogs annualy for this despite the 3 or 4 year recommendation. Lepto also gets done annually for me, if I had to drop one it would be for adenovirus as I have only seen 3 or 4 cases in my career.
I think you would be daft to not vaccinate, if you think the veterinary profession is ripping you off (as the price for human omeprazole mentioned in another thread here shows, and reflects a stupid element in how my profession charges some prices), thenvote with your feet and don't protect your dog. I know how I would vote, whether it cost me or not!
Also, bear in mind that some people do ascribe to every conspiracy theory out there........if I knew anyone who hadn't vaccinated their kids for MMR who then contracted any of the diseases, I would advocate charges relating to negligence.
Same applies to DHLP
Shocking to see people selling products suggest you keep buying them. Cui Bono anyone?
I guess there must be a LOT of people just making stuff up
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/dogs-d...
I guess there must be a LOT of people just making stuff up
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/dogs-d...
Ours lurcher has has Lepto2 for three years, L4 for the next five, and Lepto2 aga this year as we have changed vets and that's what they offer her. No adverse effects.
Not seen a dog due of it, but a friends partner died of it via contact with canal water. So it certainly does kill pets and humans.
He had DHP just before got him in 2014 and again this year, again no issues. And DHPPi twice in 2012 and again in 2013 when he was two. Presumably not I'll effects, certainly it didn't kill him.
KC annually as from time to time he goes in for a weekend, and shares our dog walks car with a host of other hounds.
Daniel
Not seen a dog due of it, but a friends partner died of it via contact with canal water. So it certainly does kill pets and humans.
He had DHP just before got him in 2014 and again this year, again no issues. And DHPPi twice in 2012 and again in 2013 when he was two. Presumably not I'll effects, certainly it didn't kill him.
KC annually as from time to time he goes in for a weekend, and shares our dog walks car with a host of other hounds.
Daniel
road hog said:
Looking for info , been advised by breeder not to use lepto 4 vaccine ...
have used it in the past , and wondered if it could have been a factor in a healthy dog developing diabetes ,
had no problems before using lepto 2..
also heard yearly booster causing epilepsy and not really needed ever year ?? maybe use every 3 years ..
vets using the excuse of yearly vacs to make money...???
https://www.doglistener.co.uk/annual-dog-vaccinati...
This whole post is why I don’t post on this part of the forum anymore. Excuse to make money!! Really? The lack of parvo, distemper and hepatitis there is these days shows how much of a positive thing vaccines are. Rarely see lepto too. We would make a lot more money treating your animals for these diseases rather than routine vaccs. Plus a lot of time now vaccs are almost loss leaders. have used it in the past , and wondered if it could have been a factor in a healthy dog developing diabetes ,
had no problems before using lepto 2..
also heard yearly booster causing epilepsy and not really needed ever year ?? maybe use every 3 years ..
vets using the excuse of yearly vacs to make money...???
https://www.doglistener.co.uk/annual-dog-vaccinati...
Edited by road hog on Thursday 11th July 10:40
Edited by road hog on Thursday 11th July 10:43
However, of course we make money on the vaccs, if we didn’t we wouldn’t be able to invest in quality diagnostics to help your animal when it gets sick. Invest in further training for staff to improve skills etc.
But hey, you believe your breeder (no medical training) and a few biased views. Just like what happened with the mmr vaccs in humans.
I do hope for your animals sake you listen to professional advice.
Jasandjules said:
Shocking to see people selling products suggest you keep buying them. Cui Bono anyone?
I guess there must be a LOT of people just making stuff up
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/dogs-d...
?thousands of dogs dying......hmmm, I guess I have 4000 dogs on our books x 32 years = zero cases of an adverse vaccine reaction to lepto or DHP...... ZERO ZERO ZEROI guess there must be a LOT of people just making stuff up
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/dogs-d...
I don't make stuff up, I observe and comment. I am coming to the end of my career and I genuinely despair of how vulnerable internet users are to a "comment" or post on a forum.
We should not believe all things from the establishment but we should also be careful about internet free posts. As I mentioned in a previous post, vaccination works with our NATURAL immunity rather than relying on antibiotics, which I guess Jasandjules wouldn't use on principle as they are bad, imagine vaccinating all patients against C.diff before hospital surgery?? there is no question that vaccination/immune system isn't a simple system that may have reaction to challenge, and as vets we do have a financial interest in selling vaccines, but from the inside, there is a very positive approach to assessing how much we should vaccinate....I've not seen a case of distemper (dog measles) or parvo in the last 10 years......Why? vaccination.
I don't mind the anti vaxxers in human medicine so much, a little natural selection is good for the species. (I am aware that they also pose a risk to those unable to have vaccines, but the majority of deaths will be in the anti vax brigade).
I have vaccinated many thousands of dogs, I have had one suspected vaccine related polyarthritis (DHPL4) and an anaphylactic reaction (DHPL2).
No deaths...
In India where vaccination is far less common I have seen first hand the differences with many hundreds of dogs dying from Parvo and Distemper.
I myself had an anaphylactic reaction to an unlicensed Jap B Encephalitis vaccine.
Nothing is risk free, but the advantages of the discussed vaccines strongly outweigh the disadvantages, I vaccinate my dog as per the WSAVA guidelines and my child / family as per NICE / WHO guidelines.
I have vaccinated many thousands of dogs, I have had one suspected vaccine related polyarthritis (DHPL4) and an anaphylactic reaction (DHPL2).
No deaths...
In India where vaccination is far less common I have seen first hand the differences with many hundreds of dogs dying from Parvo and Distemper.
I myself had an anaphylactic reaction to an unlicensed Jap B Encephalitis vaccine.
Nothing is risk free, but the advantages of the discussed vaccines strongly outweigh the disadvantages, I vaccinate my dog as per the WSAVA guidelines and my child / family as per NICE / WHO guidelines.
Been using l4 last 3yrs no reactions, we vacc a LOT of puppies due to the excellent value of the puppy starter packs (definitely loss leader but not cheap vaccines!)
We had only one incidence and it was due to the pup being born with an issue that wasn't apparent at the time of the vaccines and it would have become ill with or without the vaccine.
What I do know is if L4 vacc had been around for my friends dog he would most likely still be alive.
He was vaccinated with L2 (only one at the time) at 7 months old he contracted lepto. The laboratories established he had a strain not covered, turns out it was the same strain that the new vacc covered. My friend was devastated they battled to save him but in the end his organs shut down, a horrible way for him to go (obviously they euthanased when they realised he couldn't recover.)
At the end of the day only you can decide but I honestly don't know where the statistics about L4 have come from because if they were fact we should have seen many adverse reactions/deaths by now
Oh and yearly vaccines, most vaccines aren't given every year only lepto because cover wanes from 10 months on and kc both bacterial. The viruses distemper, parvo etc every 3yrs for most vaccine companies.
Vaccines aren't money makers, in fact treating the illnesses would make more money but we don't want to have to do that as it is soul destroying. I have seen parvo due to poor vacc cover I have not seen a case of distemper in 30yrs though I believe there has been some cases recently in the Southwest.
Distemper is still a real problem in countries where they are not as well vaccinated.
We had only one incidence and it was due to the pup being born with an issue that wasn't apparent at the time of the vaccines and it would have become ill with or without the vaccine.
What I do know is if L4 vacc had been around for my friends dog he would most likely still be alive.
He was vaccinated with L2 (only one at the time) at 7 months old he contracted lepto. The laboratories established he had a strain not covered, turns out it was the same strain that the new vacc covered. My friend was devastated they battled to save him but in the end his organs shut down, a horrible way for him to go (obviously they euthanased when they realised he couldn't recover.)
At the end of the day only you can decide but I honestly don't know where the statistics about L4 have come from because if they were fact we should have seen many adverse reactions/deaths by now
Oh and yearly vaccines, most vaccines aren't given every year only lepto because cover wanes from 10 months on and kc both bacterial. The viruses distemper, parvo etc every 3yrs for most vaccine companies.
Vaccines aren't money makers, in fact treating the illnesses would make more money but we don't want to have to do that as it is soul destroying. I have seen parvo due to poor vacc cover I have not seen a case of distemper in 30yrs though I believe there has been some cases recently in the Southwest.
Distemper is still a real problem in countries where they are not as well vaccinated.
Edited by bexVN on Tuesday 16th July 23:04
Just wanted to say , thanks to all for your replies , just wanted a broader scope of info than hearsay from the breeder,
we will be vaccinating our pup,
as we have with all our dogs over the last 30 years ,
Putting the diabetes down to coincidence , not the L4 vac.
maybe Im cynical but from talking to friends , etc , dogs seem to be suffering more from things like cancers and the like , than they ever used to, or maybe these things have always been there , just better diagnosed now,.
we will be vaccinating our pup,
as we have with all our dogs over the last 30 years ,
Putting the diabetes down to coincidence , not the L4 vac.
maybe Im cynical but from talking to friends , etc , dogs seem to be suffering more from things like cancers and the like , than they ever used to, or maybe these things have always been there , just better diagnosed now,.
road hog said:
maybe Im cynical but from talking to friends , etc , dogs seem to be suffering more from things like cancers and the like , than they ever used to, or maybe these things have always been there , just better diagnosed now,.
It could be that we (all species) are all getting genetically weaker as there are few selection pressures driving resistance to challenge. Without selection, there will be changes in what eventually cooks us. Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff