Advice with dog aggression
Discussion
Having a hard time with our rescue lurcher and other dogs. When we got him he would pull constantly on the lead and lunge for every tree, bush and so on, constant state of high alert as well as be incredibly reactive with dogs. Frequent visits to the behaviourist and a lot of training and now he's happy to walk on a loose lead 90% of the time and is very calm on walks until we get within 50-75m of another dog. More sessions with our behaviourist are on the cards, we're also muzzle training him at home, though he hasn't bitten another dog. He's improved a lot in every sense apart from his dog reactivity, and it seems impossible to socialise him because he's so reactive. He doesn't go into full ears-back-snarling mode, his ears and tail go up and he barks and growls. Oddly he's completely fine with my mum's dog (a tiny Jack Russell), they can sleep in the same room and play off lead together.
Behaviourist has advised us that it's probably due to him being equally excited by and scared of other dogs and to just work on keeping him calm outside. Am I expecting too much and we just need to keep at it for longer? Currently if we see another dog and he reacts we take him away and he gets treats once he stops pulling and barking, if he can manage to walk past the dog calmly loads of treats are involved, but this is a very rare occurrence.
Behaviourist has advised us that it's probably due to him being equally excited by and scared of other dogs and to just work on keeping him calm outside. Am I expecting too much and we just need to keep at it for longer? Currently if we see another dog and he reacts we take him away and he gets treats once he stops pulling and barking, if he can manage to walk past the dog calmly loads of treats are involved, but this is a very rare occurrence.
I guess the behaviourist is only doing his job, but maybe the dog is not best suited to his new home/environment?
I'm currently exploring my options for getting a rescue dog.
Most of the sites I've visited try to ensure any prospective dog will suit my environment. Most of them provide info about potential areas of concern such as not good with kids, aggressive with other dogs, very energetic, etc. Around my area I'm likely to run into other dogs frequently so have to discount any that are known to be troublesome.
I know it sounds harsh, but maybe he'd be better suited to someone out in the sticks and less likely to run into other dogs?
As I said, I'm new to this so may be way out of order, though we did have dogs amongst many other pets when I was a kid at home.
I'm currently exploring my options for getting a rescue dog.
Most of the sites I've visited try to ensure any prospective dog will suit my environment. Most of them provide info about potential areas of concern such as not good with kids, aggressive with other dogs, very energetic, etc. Around my area I'm likely to run into other dogs frequently so have to discount any that are known to be troublesome.
I know it sounds harsh, but maybe he'd be better suited to someone out in the sticks and less likely to run into other dogs?
As I said, I'm new to this so may be way out of order, though we did have dogs amongst many other pets when I was a kid at home.
My dog was like what yours sounds like for his whole adopted life with me. We did lots of work with trainers but couldn't achieve as much as you have done. I think if you've seen the needle move in the opposite way some already, then yeah you just need to keep at what you are doing. Sounds like you are doing really well to be honest.
Our behaviourist came to the conclusion that our collie, Bryn, used to get a 'buzz' out of fighting, and would go to seek that out. Funnily enough, he only ever tried it on with dogs that he could see were on a leash (he himself was always leashed). If a dog came up to him off-lead, he was a wee s
tebag, because he knew he was disadvantaged, so didn't even try.
I suppose you need to be consistent with addressing how he reacts to other dogs - every encounter needs to be a training moment, If you can't be arsed one day, or don't have the tools out with you (clicker, treats, whatever it is you use) then you need to avoid those encounters at all costs (ie, don't go where there could be other dogs). That was one of the first things our behaviourist taught us, and no doubt yours will have said something along the same lines.
I read a book called Click to Calm, which was about using clicker training to re-shape aggressive behaviours, and although I could never quite make it work to overcome our dog's anxieties, there was a line in the author's introduction that really struck me. It was about not taking dog behaviour personally, because it's so entrained and reactionary to whatever stimulus that its like trying to overcome an ancient instinct in the same way prey drive (etc) is. Its not impossible, it takes a lot of work, but most importantly you need to be forgiving and find ways to enjoy your dog despite it. I used to get so worked up when Bryn would kick off and howl and wail at dogs across the street on every walk. Came home in frustrated tears more than once and could feel resentment coming on after years of it and things not improving. But something about that line in that book just made a switch flick in my head, and after that I learned to accept that the dog may well never be "normal", and to appreciate all the good traits he had and not dwell on the bad all the time because that makes the dog a chore rather than a joy.
After that, if I'd walk him and he'd start chirping and yowling at other dogs, and any of the corrective training methods didn't get his attention, I'd just have to smile to the other owners and shake my head, shrug in a kind of dismissive "what's he like?" way and just walk on. I'd see the same people all the time on our daily walks and we just learned to cross the street from each other and try to time passing by so that parked cars would obfuscate the dog's view. It wasn't defeatist, but it was an effort to preserve the bond we had because I know how heart-breaking, painful and isolating it can be when you can't take your dog to the same places as everyone else. It puts pressure on you and then you end up placing that pressure on the dog to "perform" in a way it just can't grasp.
Our behaviourist came to the conclusion that our collie, Bryn, used to get a 'buzz' out of fighting, and would go to seek that out. Funnily enough, he only ever tried it on with dogs that he could see were on a leash (he himself was always leashed). If a dog came up to him off-lead, he was a wee s
tebag, because he knew he was disadvantaged, so didn't even try.I suppose you need to be consistent with addressing how he reacts to other dogs - every encounter needs to be a training moment, If you can't be arsed one day, or don't have the tools out with you (clicker, treats, whatever it is you use) then you need to avoid those encounters at all costs (ie, don't go where there could be other dogs). That was one of the first things our behaviourist taught us, and no doubt yours will have said something along the same lines.
I read a book called Click to Calm, which was about using clicker training to re-shape aggressive behaviours, and although I could never quite make it work to overcome our dog's anxieties, there was a line in the author's introduction that really struck me. It was about not taking dog behaviour personally, because it's so entrained and reactionary to whatever stimulus that its like trying to overcome an ancient instinct in the same way prey drive (etc) is. Its not impossible, it takes a lot of work, but most importantly you need to be forgiving and find ways to enjoy your dog despite it. I used to get so worked up when Bryn would kick off and howl and wail at dogs across the street on every walk. Came home in frustrated tears more than once and could feel resentment coming on after years of it and things not improving. But something about that line in that book just made a switch flick in my head, and after that I learned to accept that the dog may well never be "normal", and to appreciate all the good traits he had and not dwell on the bad all the time because that makes the dog a chore rather than a joy.
After that, if I'd walk him and he'd start chirping and yowling at other dogs, and any of the corrective training methods didn't get his attention, I'd just have to smile to the other owners and shake my head, shrug in a kind of dismissive "what's he like?" way and just walk on. I'd see the same people all the time on our daily walks and we just learned to cross the street from each other and try to time passing by so that parked cars would obfuscate the dog's view. It wasn't defeatist, but it was an effort to preserve the bond we had because I know how heart-breaking, painful and isolating it can be when you can't take your dog to the same places as everyone else. It puts pressure on you and then you end up placing that pressure on the dog to "perform" in a way it just can't grasp.
Edited by Wrathalanche on Wednesday 27th March 16:05
j_4m said:
Currently if we see another dog and he reacts we take him away and he gets treats once he stops pulling and barking,
Could be he sees this as being rewarded for defending you fromm the other dog?We have a similar problem and we're dealing with it by attracting his attention before he gets to another dog and keep distracting him and giving him treats. That way he's getting rewarded for ignoring the other dog.
May be worth trying?
I have similar issues with our rescue dog, although he is non-aggressive; he is frustrated/scared of other dogs so will whine and bark at them, pull on his lead, do somersaults on the spot...........even try and jump on my back!
We've had him for 5 months.
It's properly embarrassing on a walk as he goes spare when we encounter another dog. I walk him later in the evening, on routes where we are unlikely to see other dogs.
To try and combat this, we are also working with a behaviorist. Every couple of weeks we stand in a field with our boy and a 'stooge' dog organised by our behaviorist walks backwards and forwards past us in the distance.
The stooge dog is specially trained not to react to other dogs in any way.
The idea is that the stooge dog gradually gets closer as the tolerance of our dog improves. All the while, we are distracting him and rewarding him with treats when he puts his attention on us, rather than the dog in the distance.
It's slow going but it appears to be gradually working. He's certainly better than he was, although it'll be some time before we even think about close up meetings.
We've had him for 5 months.
It's properly embarrassing on a walk as he goes spare when we encounter another dog. I walk him later in the evening, on routes where we are unlikely to see other dogs.
To try and combat this, we are also working with a behaviorist. Every couple of weeks we stand in a field with our boy and a 'stooge' dog organised by our behaviorist walks backwards and forwards past us in the distance.
The stooge dog is specially trained not to react to other dogs in any way.
The idea is that the stooge dog gradually gets closer as the tolerance of our dog improves. All the while, we are distracting him and rewarding him with treats when he puts his attention on us, rather than the dog in the distance.
It's slow going but it appears to be gradually working. He's certainly better than he was, although it'll be some time before we even think about close up meetings.
keirik said:
Could be he sees this as being rewarded for defending you fromm the other dog?
We have a similar problem and we're dealing with it by attracting his attention before he gets to another dog and keep distracting him and giving him treats. That way he's getting rewarded for ignoring the other dog.
May be worth trying?
Possibly, that's a good point. May have to start being more selective with the treats. Unfortunately he's much better at spotting other dogs than us! Sometimes you can catch and distract him but most of the time he's already clocked the other dog 100m away and through the treeline, bloody sighthounds.We have a similar problem and we're dealing with it by attracting his attention before he gets to another dog and keep distracting him and giving him treats. That way he's getting rewarded for ignoring the other dog.
May be worth trying?
Bobby on the left is the one suffering with seizures whilst the innocent one on the right is Roxi.
She is a rescue Dog who had several homes before us and has terrible fear aggression so as above get the first bite in and worry about the consequences later.
She wasn't for rehoming but we went along after losing another GSD several months before and having has another "problem" dog from the RSPCA they asked us to consider her as her last hope. The first thing she did was fly at me inside her cage in a complete angry rage. to cut a long story short we took her home after about 3 weeks of visiting and socialising her.
She will never lose that fear and whilst she is a sweetheart with me we never let her near visitors. she has never shown aggression to our other Dogs whilst she has been here she is just afraid of strangers. She had no chances left and would have been PTS in a matter of days until we came along. Our Vet thinks her problem is she is too smart but not sure about that. All Dogs can be homed if the circumstances are right and all Dogs deserve that chance as most are damaged by humans not other Dogs.
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