Canine Hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis (HGE)
Discussion
Hi
I'm taking the opportunity to seek opinions from dog owners here on whether anyone has experienced HGE in their dogs.
My lab has suffered from this for over a year now. Symptoms include:
1) Occasionally does not eat breakfast and lays depressed in bed, but is still keen to go on walks later in the day and eat later.
2) Occasionally has vomiting episodes
3) Frequently has diahrea
4) Has had a few bouts of severe diahrea with lots of blood (and I'm talking lots), vomiting and restlessness.
She has hospitalised on a number of occasions for supportive care (IV drip to help with dehydration and low temperature), and numerous medication.
All tests under the sun has been carried out, including emergency surgery to check for any blockage in intestines, and nothing is evident. This is often the case with HGE.
Symptom (4) often occurs overnight and I go downstairs to see pools of blood and diahrea which you can imagine is awful. I regularly go downstairs to see vomit on the floor.
There is no longer any insurance on this condition so each episode of symptom 4 is costing in excess of £1000 everytime it occurs as she needs hospitalisation.
The rest of the time she is fine and happy as Larry. Now, if she exhibited symptom 4 all the time, then there would be no question but to put her out of her misery. But these are rare and have happened about 4 times in 18 months. But the last two occasions were in the space of the past 4 weeks.
The other symptoms occur around 50% of the time.
What would you do? I cannot afford to keep paying out on emergency vets/hospitalisation fees.
At what point do you say enough is enough? She's 4 years old. I have two young kids here too.
Thanks.
I'm taking the opportunity to seek opinions from dog owners here on whether anyone has experienced HGE in their dogs.
My lab has suffered from this for over a year now. Symptoms include:
1) Occasionally does not eat breakfast and lays depressed in bed, but is still keen to go on walks later in the day and eat later.
2) Occasionally has vomiting episodes
3) Frequently has diahrea
4) Has had a few bouts of severe diahrea with lots of blood (and I'm talking lots), vomiting and restlessness.
She has hospitalised on a number of occasions for supportive care (IV drip to help with dehydration and low temperature), and numerous medication.
All tests under the sun has been carried out, including emergency surgery to check for any blockage in intestines, and nothing is evident. This is often the case with HGE.
Symptom (4) often occurs overnight and I go downstairs to see pools of blood and diahrea which you can imagine is awful. I regularly go downstairs to see vomit on the floor.
There is no longer any insurance on this condition so each episode of symptom 4 is costing in excess of £1000 everytime it occurs as she needs hospitalisation.
The rest of the time she is fine and happy as Larry. Now, if she exhibited symptom 4 all the time, then there would be no question but to put her out of her misery. But these are rare and have happened about 4 times in 18 months. But the last two occasions were in the space of the past 4 weeks.
The other symptoms occur around 50% of the time.
What would you do? I cannot afford to keep paying out on emergency vets/hospitalisation fees.
At what point do you say enough is enough? She's 4 years old. I have two young kids here too.
Thanks.
My staffy sort of has what your dog's got. She doesn't have the best of constitutions.
The last time it happened and we put her in to the vet, I spoke with them and she recommended that the moment we notice a change, we should give her Yakult or natural yoghurt (not the sugar free stuff, as natural as you can get stuff). The bacteria in the yoghurt can help a dog's digestion, and touch wood we haven't had a repeat of Symptom 4. We get the occasional soft stool and gas attacks, but when she's given the Yakult or the yoghurt it seems to improve her no end.
Maybe try that?
The last time it happened and we put her in to the vet, I spoke with them and she recommended that the moment we notice a change, we should give her Yakult or natural yoghurt (not the sugar free stuff, as natural as you can get stuff). The bacteria in the yoghurt can help a dog's digestion, and touch wood we haven't had a repeat of Symptom 4. We get the occasional soft stool and gas attacks, but when she's given the Yakult or the yoghurt it seems to improve her no end.
Maybe try that?
HGE is usually a one off caused by virus or similar, it is violent, explosive, very very smelly and very debilitating to a dog when they get it. Some can mistake it for Parvo it is that bad (over the years I can usually tell by smell it is not) with fluids etc most dogs recover well after 2-3 days.
If she is getting this repeatedly then maybe it is an immunity issue? Maybe gut biopsies are in order as his guts may have suffered a lot of damage with recurrent episodes.
Look into natural remedies to restore gut flora. I have worked with with a vet who doesn't do homeopathy but is very very knowledgeable in natural remedies and can offer an amazing range of treatments for many conditions.
In the meantime very careful monitoring of her diet, use unusual foods such as trout (I know sounds odd but is useful in diet management issues) and sweet potato, this should be home cooked and given with no other foods or treats at all for at least 6 weeks, longer if possible, then very slowly add another food source in.
If she is getting this repeatedly then maybe it is an immunity issue? Maybe gut biopsies are in order as his guts may have suffered a lot of damage with recurrent episodes.
Look into natural remedies to restore gut flora. I have worked with with a vet who doesn't do homeopathy but is very very knowledgeable in natural remedies and can offer an amazing range of treatments for many conditions.
In the meantime very careful monitoring of her diet, use unusual foods such as trout (I know sounds odd but is useful in diet management issues) and sweet potato, this should be home cooked and given with no other foods or treats at all for at least 6 weeks, longer if possible, then very slowly add another food source in.
Edited by bexVN on Friday 18th January 17:39
bexVN said:
Look into natural remedies to restore gut flora. I have worked with with a vet who doesn't do homeopathy but is very very knowledgeable in natural remedies and can offer an amazing range of treatments for many conditions.
Indeed, we have both, one who uses a lot of natural stuff (and even makes their own painkillers that don't harm or kill dogs unlike some of the NSAIDs etc ) and a homeopathic vet.Please understand that homeopathy is not an alternative to evidence based medicine, it is not based on sound scientific principles. By all means use it along side medicine as it will surely cause no harm, but not as an alternative to it.
I would consider seeking a second opinion, as mentioned previously, HGE tends to be individual episodes rather than a chronic condition. I would suggest that you call some time in advance and book an appointment with one of the practice partners or a vet with an interest in internal medicine. Make sure that they have time to read the full history + all the test results, phone the day before to check that they have received the full history, it will give them a heads up to read it before hand. In the mean time I would ensure that you are feeding a good quality, single protein source diet, and add in some probiotic (eg Protexin pro-fibre). Keep a diary of episodes so that you can pinpoint any initiating factors.
There will be other options before euthanasia, some of them very cheap (but not without risks of side effects).
I would consider seeking a second opinion, as mentioned previously, HGE tends to be individual episodes rather than a chronic condition. I would suggest that you call some time in advance and book an appointment with one of the practice partners or a vet with an interest in internal medicine. Make sure that they have time to read the full history + all the test results, phone the day before to check that they have received the full history, it will give them a heads up to read it before hand. In the mean time I would ensure that you are feeding a good quality, single protein source diet, and add in some probiotic (eg Protexin pro-fibre). Keep a diary of episodes so that you can pinpoint any initiating factors.
There will be other options before euthanasia, some of them very cheap (but not without risks of side effects).
Thanks all.
She's been on probiotics for a short while. Doesn't appear to be having any effects. Personally, I'm not convinced with homeopathy so probably won't try that.
As for a second opinion, I have had 4 vets at the practice looking at the dog including the owner and everyone is baffled. She has also been to another practice for emergencies where a number of other vets have carried out a battery of tests previously, also to no avail.
There doesn't appear to be any triggers either. I watch her like a hawk and know that she isn't eating anything on our walks either.
I think diet is the next thing to consider. She's been on a few different types of kibbles, and is currently on James Wellbeloved. I read somewhere about Royal Canin's low fat gastro food. Might be worth exploring. One vet did mention a referral to a specialist to test for colitis etc. As I'm seeing the vet again on Monday to discuss options in going forward, I will ask about this. He's a superb vet and is very diligent. For example, he's happy to talk on his days off and there are not many people who would talk shop on their days off.
jmsgld - could you briefly mention other options if you have a minute please?
Again, thanks all.
She's been on probiotics for a short while. Doesn't appear to be having any effects. Personally, I'm not convinced with homeopathy so probably won't try that.
As for a second opinion, I have had 4 vets at the practice looking at the dog including the owner and everyone is baffled. She has also been to another practice for emergencies where a number of other vets have carried out a battery of tests previously, also to no avail.
There doesn't appear to be any triggers either. I watch her like a hawk and know that she isn't eating anything on our walks either.
I think diet is the next thing to consider. She's been on a few different types of kibbles, and is currently on James Wellbeloved. I read somewhere about Royal Canin's low fat gastro food. Might be worth exploring. One vet did mention a referral to a specialist to test for colitis etc. As I'm seeing the vet again on Monday to discuss options in going forward, I will ask about this. He's a superb vet and is very diligent. For example, he's happy to talk on his days off and there are not many people who would talk shop on their days off.
jmsgld - could you briefly mention other options if you have a minute please?
Again, thanks all.
MYOB said:
.....
I think diet is the next thing to consider. She's been on a few different types of kibbles, and is currently on James Wellbeloved. I read somewhere about Royal Canin's low fat gastro food. Might be worth exploring.
.......
My 5yr Staffie cross didn't thrive on any kibble with Lamb, Turkey, Rice or Maize. I also found fat content caused issues - tried several brands including JWB over the course of a few months. Nothing like your Lab's symptoms - just soft poo's, reluctance to eat some mornings, very occasional vomiting and some lethargy.I think diet is the next thing to consider. She's been on a few different types of kibbles, and is currently on James Wellbeloved. I read somewhere about Royal Canin's low fat gastro food. Might be worth exploring.
.......
Cutting out treats helped but she still wasn't 'right'.
I found Millies Wolfheart Tracker - low fat, fish, potato and sweet potato mainly and she's been on it for nearly a year now with all problems gone. She can also have limited treats without issues.
Might be worth a go?
I'm afraid without seeing the dog and the history it really wouldn't be appropriate for me to give specific advice.
There are a number of diseases that can cause chronic diarrhoea / gastroenteritis, which is basically what you are describing. They range from endocrine diseases to inflammatory / autoimmune, infective, idiopathic etc.
A consultation with a specialist will be circa £300, but if you make it clear that you have no money for further testing, a review of all available evidence by a specialist will likely be well worth it.
If you really are at the stage where you are considering euthanasia, then I would discuss this with your vet and what alternatives / trial treatments may be appropriate.
Best of luck.
There are a number of diseases that can cause chronic diarrhoea / gastroenteritis, which is basically what you are describing. They range from endocrine diseases to inflammatory / autoimmune, infective, idiopathic etc.
A consultation with a specialist will be circa £300, but if you make it clear that you have no money for further testing, a review of all available evidence by a specialist will likely be well worth it.
If you really are at the stage where you are considering euthanasia, then I would discuss this with your vet and what alternatives / trial treatments may be appropriate.
Best of luck.
jmsgld said:
I'm afraid without seeing the dog and the history it really wouldn't be appropriate for me to give specific advice.
There are a number of diseases that can cause chronic diarrhoea / gastroenteritis, which is basically what you are describing. They range from endocrine diseases to inflammatory / autoimmune, infective, idiopathic etc.
A consultation with a specialist will be circa £300, but if you make it clear that you have no money for further testing, a review of all available evidence by a specialist will likely be well worth it.
If you really are at the stage where you are considering euthanasia, then I would discuss this with your vet and what alternatives / trial treatments may be appropriate.
Best of luck.
This is helpful, thank you. I will hold off from further thoughts of euthanasia and focus on attempting a solution through her diet. I will also discuss with the vet on next steps regarding attempting to identify the underlying cause. Thanks again.There are a number of diseases that can cause chronic diarrhoea / gastroenteritis, which is basically what you are describing. They range from endocrine diseases to inflammatory / autoimmune, infective, idiopathic etc.
A consultation with a specialist will be circa £300, but if you make it clear that you have no money for further testing, a review of all available evidence by a specialist will likely be well worth it.
If you really are at the stage where you are considering euthanasia, then I would discuss this with your vet and what alternatives / trial treatments may be appropriate.
Best of luck.
ctdctd said:
I found Millies Wolfheart Tracker - low fat, fish, potato and sweet potato mainly and she's been on it for nearly a year now with all problems gone.
Good suggestion. Jmsgld suggested a single protein source food which rules out the Tracker but I have identified another choice from this company that meets the suggested criteria. It's also potatoe based as suggested by BexVN. Many thanks again. garythesign said:
OP - What an awful position to find yourself in. I feel for you and wish you all the best.
To those that have taken the time to post on this thread and similar, I thank you all.
This is the most supportive thread on PH
Thank you, and indeed everyone else. I appreciate the advice and at this stage, am not ruling anything out, including homeopathic options.To those that have taken the time to post on this thread and similar, I thank you all.
This is the most supportive thread on PH
I'll update once I have seen the vet on Monday.
Best wishes all.
Our dog has it right now, horrific.
She was restless yesterday morning and wouldn't settle (I was at work) but he Mrs said the dog had been sick a few times. I got home after lunch and she was sick another 5 times, wouldn't eat or drink anything, kept shaking and was laying in a 'praying' position before throwing up yellow bile. I got her into the vets by tea time and they gave her an injection to stop the vomitting and sent us home.
Roll on 10pm last night she had water pouring out of her back end. Off to the vets again for an emergency appointment, all whilst leaking all over the Mrs, the car and the vets floor. Her temp was just 35c and she was severely dehydrated so she was admitted immediately for IV fluids and some pain relief.
She's still cold this morning and really lethargic and she's been move back to our normal vet for the day. Back on a drip, antibiotics and heat blankets to warm her up. The vet thinks had we not got her to the emergency vet it would be a very different story this morning. She's going to be in for a few days.
I'm amazed at how much 'fluid' she produced, she's only a Cavalier King Charles so a small dog.
Horrific, full blood tests will hopefully shed some light on the cause of it. I've spent half the morning at the vet with a very upset fiancé and now I'm disinfecting everything the pooch had contact with last night.
She was restless yesterday morning and wouldn't settle (I was at work) but he Mrs said the dog had been sick a few times. I got home after lunch and she was sick another 5 times, wouldn't eat or drink anything, kept shaking and was laying in a 'praying' position before throwing up yellow bile. I got her into the vets by tea time and they gave her an injection to stop the vomitting and sent us home.
Roll on 10pm last night she had water pouring out of her back end. Off to the vets again for an emergency appointment, all whilst leaking all over the Mrs, the car and the vets floor. Her temp was just 35c and she was severely dehydrated so she was admitted immediately for IV fluids and some pain relief.
She's still cold this morning and really lethargic and she's been move back to our normal vet for the day. Back on a drip, antibiotics and heat blankets to warm her up. The vet thinks had we not got her to the emergency vet it would be a very different story this morning. She's going to be in for a few days.
I'm amazed at how much 'fluid' she produced, she's only a Cavalier King Charles so a small dog.
Horrific, full blood tests will hopefully shed some light on the cause of it. I've spent half the morning at the vet with a very upset fiancé and now I'm disinfecting everything the pooch had contact with last night.
oh dear. Sorry to hear that. I doubt blood tests will get to the root cause, if it's HGE.
I haven't updated since the follow up at the vet's on Monday. She's now on an assorted range of medication, including antibiotics to target the suspected HGE as it's bacterial.
She's doing much better now and I'm trialling new food, IE, single source protein based food and potatoe based rather than rice.
If it's reoccur, then obviously something else needs to be done. She's had it 4 times in 18 months and at a cost of over £7k.
I haven't updated since the follow up at the vet's on Monday. She's now on an assorted range of medication, including antibiotics to target the suspected HGE as it's bacterial.
She's doing much better now and I'm trialling new food, IE, single source protein based food and potatoe based rather than rice.
If it's reoccur, then obviously something else needs to be done. She's had it 4 times in 18 months and at a cost of over £7k.
Ours was allowed home last night, so glad to have her back.
Lots of meds for a week along with chicken and rice. She's perking up a bit but is spending most of her time asleep in her bed. That's fine with me though as she's on the mend.
Give it a week or so and hopefully she's back to her old self.
Lots of meds for a week along with chicken and rice. She's perking up a bit but is spending most of her time asleep in her bed. That's fine with me though as she's on the mend.
Give it a week or so and hopefully she's back to her old self.
Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff