Advice on training a ESS gundog puppy
Discussion
I’m picking up our English Springer Spaniel puppy (11weeks old) next week and wondering if anyone on here has been through the gundog training process?
He’ll be used for picking up and some rough shooting and ‘maybe’ as a peg dog if I can get him that steady.
Points to note:
He’s got a great pedegree background but is not a field trial dog - bigger and chunkier hopefully.
he’ll be in a kennel in my barn so not a house pet. He’ll be on his own at night, in a garden pen during the day.
I work from home mostly so can do lotx of 5/10 play sessions.
I’m not interested in ‘clicker training’ or ‘positive only’ rubbish. He’ll be in a live shooting environment so I’ll need 100% control over him.
I’m no interested in E-Collars.
My rough plan is to hold off sit/stay/stop/lead training until maybe 9 months so I can encourage as much drive in him as possible.
I have a small field to train him on, plus Exmoor on my doorstep.
I’m hoping to employ the services of a local gundog trainer, but not sure who yet. I’m liking the no nonsense approach of Chris Upton on YouTube. I may even send him on boarding bootcamp for a few weeks to tidy him up a bit nect year.
My main worry is that my experience is limited and I may not spot warning signs. I’m also struggling to find a best order/program/steps to train him - everyone seems to have different approaches.
Any tips/lessons learned would be much appreciated!
Photo to follow when I'm not behind the corporate firewall!
He’ll be used for picking up and some rough shooting and ‘maybe’ as a peg dog if I can get him that steady.
Points to note:
He’s got a great pedegree background but is not a field trial dog - bigger and chunkier hopefully.
he’ll be in a kennel in my barn so not a house pet. He’ll be on his own at night, in a garden pen during the day.
I work from home mostly so can do lotx of 5/10 play sessions.
I’m not interested in ‘clicker training’ or ‘positive only’ rubbish. He’ll be in a live shooting environment so I’ll need 100% control over him.
I’m no interested in E-Collars.
My rough plan is to hold off sit/stay/stop/lead training until maybe 9 months so I can encourage as much drive in him as possible.
I have a small field to train him on, plus Exmoor on my doorstep.
I’m hoping to employ the services of a local gundog trainer, but not sure who yet. I’m liking the no nonsense approach of Chris Upton on YouTube. I may even send him on boarding bootcamp for a few weeks to tidy him up a bit nect year.
My main worry is that my experience is limited and I may not spot warning signs. I’m also struggling to find a best order/program/steps to train him - everyone seems to have different approaches.
Any tips/lessons learned would be much appreciated!
Photo to follow when I'm not behind the corporate firewall!
Edited by LotusMartin on Wednesday 9th May 10:44
I've not got experience of Springers, but I have of gun dogs (Dobe, Vizsla, Weim)
A few notes from mine.
You need to be headstrong, you're the boss, what you says goes. Gun dogs can try to take the piss, can even want to dominate.
Little things help them know their place. Never let him/her walk through a door before you, or barge past. Feed them after you.
They have a lot of energy, which can become directed in to bad behaviour. Something (in addition to walks) to wear them out is handy. The Dobe has one of these https://marksemporium.co.uk/Item_i2429819?gclid=EA... which he chases around the garden for ages, which tires him right out.
Keep him in a routine, they don't like being out of sync. Ours automatically know tea time and walk time, and winge if it's not on cue.
They are quite brainy. Tricks can be taught, paw, roll etc. This helps getting them to follow commands on request.
Good luck!
A few notes from mine.
You need to be headstrong, you're the boss, what you says goes. Gun dogs can try to take the piss, can even want to dominate.
Little things help them know their place. Never let him/her walk through a door before you, or barge past. Feed them after you.
They have a lot of energy, which can become directed in to bad behaviour. Something (in addition to walks) to wear them out is handy. The Dobe has one of these https://marksemporium.co.uk/Item_i2429819?gclid=EA... which he chases around the garden for ages, which tires him right out.
Keep him in a routine, they don't like being out of sync. Ours automatically know tea time and walk time, and winge if it's not on cue.
They are quite brainy. Tricks can be taught, paw, roll etc. This helps getting them to follow commands on request.
Good luck!
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
I've not got experience of Springers, but I have of gun dogs (Dobe, Vizsla, Weim)
A few notes from mine.
You need to be headstrong, you're the boss, what you says goes. Gun dogs can try to take the piss, can even want to dominate.
Little things help them know their place. Never let him/her walk through a door before you, or barge past. Feed them after you.
They have a lot of energy, which can become directed in to bad behaviour. Something (in addition to walks) to wear them out is handy. The Dobe has one of these https://marksemporium.co.uk/Item_i2429819?gclid=EA... which he chases around the garden for ages, which tires him right out.
Keep him in a routine, they don't like being out of sync. Ours automatically know tea time and walk time, and winge if it's not on cue.
They are quite brainy. Tricks can be taught, paw, roll etc. This helps getting them to follow commands on request.
Good luck!
From the breeder videos i’ve been sent he’s definitely the pack leader and high energy!! S I might have my hands full. A few notes from mine.
You need to be headstrong, you're the boss, what you says goes. Gun dogs can try to take the piss, can even want to dominate.
Little things help them know their place. Never let him/her walk through a door before you, or barge past. Feed them after you.
They have a lot of energy, which can become directed in to bad behaviour. Something (in addition to walks) to wear them out is handy. The Dobe has one of these https://marksemporium.co.uk/Item_i2429819?gclid=EA... which he chases around the garden for ages, which tires him right out.
Keep him in a routine, they don't like being out of sync. Ours automatically know tea time and walk time, and winge if it's not on cue.
They are quite brainy. Tricks can be taught, paw, roll etc. This helps getting them to follow commands on request.
Good luck!
I’m actually thinking that a very fixed routine will be bad for him and will lead to expectation. Certainly whilst he’s little i’ll try and keep it consistent, but hoping to move him to 24/7 food availability as soon as I can so there are no ‘meal times’.
I’m definitely going to have to toughen up, thats for sure, he’s a little darling at the moment but I’m told he’ll be a monster soon enough. I’m definitely not going to stand for barking/whining though thats for sure. I hear a spray water bottle works well. The shoots round by me just won’t tolerate it.
RE excessive barking, one of these https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-Gas-Air-Horn-Hand-He... sorted out that issue for us.
They had got silly with it, going nuts every time the door went in particular. A few days of interjecting barking with a blast of the horn stopped it dead. Now we just have to show it them and they'll be quiet.
They had got silly with it, going nuts every time the door went in particular. A few days of interjecting barking with a blast of the horn stopped it dead. Now we just have to show it them and they'll be quiet.
This place is very useful and I’d imagine a few people will be able to help you find a trainer
https://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/
https://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/
Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area said:
This place is very useful and I’d imagine a few people will be able to help you find a trainer
https://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/
Looks good - just registered. https://www.gundogtrainingforum.co.uk/phpbb/
Many thanks
I can highly recommend purchasing Beccleuch gun dogs dvds which cover all you need to know for working spaniels. David Lisitt has trained many field champions, also British and Irish champion successes.
As for Mr Upton’s training methods, if you think hitting your dog to gain respect is going to be useful, more fool you. Why would anyone want a dog that’s fearful of you?
Best advice I can give is recall, recall, recall and I wouldn’t worry about hunting instinct as it’s firmly breed into them.
Have fun and enjoy your new puppy.
As for Mr Upton’s training methods, if you think hitting your dog to gain respect is going to be useful, more fool you. Why would anyone want a dog that’s fearful of you?
Best advice I can give is recall, recall, recall and I wouldn’t worry about hunting instinct as it’s firmly breed into them.
Have fun and enjoy your new puppy.
Not a springer but we have a cocker that's trained. Well we think it is it probably has other ideas.
1) Doorway manors, easy to train.
2) Play fetch. It doesn't have to bring it back but it has to be keen to go out for it. Don't teach steadiness yet and don't chase it to bring the thing back. If it doesn't bring it back then ignore it. They soon learn.
3) Make sure it sits before you feed it. Simple concept really but spaniels don't like sitting for to long, it bores the heck out of them. Also helps with steadiness training when it gets a bit older.
4) It's a puppy, let it do puppy stuff and work your training round that.
5) Recall. You have to be the best thing ever, even better than that leaf that's blowing about. Make a fuss of it every time you call it, plus see 2.
6) Say a command, make it happen
7) It will take the piss, constantly. Don't get mad, its a spaniel, it's what they do.
Above all, just let it enjoy being with you. Spaniels do stuff to please their owners, it makes life easier for you to train it if you have a great bond with it.
1) Doorway manors, easy to train.
2) Play fetch. It doesn't have to bring it back but it has to be keen to go out for it. Don't teach steadiness yet and don't chase it to bring the thing back. If it doesn't bring it back then ignore it. They soon learn.
3) Make sure it sits before you feed it. Simple concept really but spaniels don't like sitting for to long, it bores the heck out of them. Also helps with steadiness training when it gets a bit older.
4) It's a puppy, let it do puppy stuff and work your training round that.
5) Recall. You have to be the best thing ever, even better than that leaf that's blowing about. Make a fuss of it every time you call it, plus see 2.
6) Say a command, make it happen
7) It will take the piss, constantly. Don't get mad, its a spaniel, it's what they do.
Above all, just let it enjoy being with you. Spaniels do stuff to please their owners, it makes life easier for you to train it if you have a great bond with it.
GJB73 said:
I can highly recommend purchasing Beccleuch gun dogs dvds which cover all you need to know for working spaniels. David Lisitt has trained many field champions, also British and Irish champion successes.
As for Mr Upton’s training methods, if you think hitting your dog to gain respect is going to be useful, more fool you. Why would anyone want a dog that’s fearful of you?
Best advice I can give is recall, recall, recall and I wouldn’t worry about hunting instinct as it’s firmly breed into them.
Have fun and enjoy your new puppy.
I’ve been thinking about the beccleuch DVDs they do get amazing reviews. In fact I nearly bought a pup from a Beccleuch Pepper litter, but decided it was a bit too FTCH for what I need. As for Mr Upton’s training methods, if you think hitting your dog to gain respect is going to be useful, more fool you. Why would anyone want a dog that’s fearful of you?
Best advice I can give is recall, recall, recall and I wouldn’t worry about hunting instinct as it’s firmly breed into them.
Have fun and enjoy your new puppy.
As for Chris, I’m sure he’s never hit a dog in his life, and to accuse him of that is probably liablous so I’d be careful if I were you. I’ve seen his videos and I know about the RSPCA BS he had to tollerate as well as the online trolling from the snowflakes, I’d be happy to leave my pup with him and might very well do that.
At the end of the day, my dog, and the dogs he trains are put in a dangerous situation with guns around, occasionally they need some ‘tough love’ to keep them trained and safe. That is not an excuse or a justification - just fact.
There is a line that can be crossed, but I view his methods as a reasonable ‘short sharp shock’ which are part of effective training. stick to ‘positive only’ if you want, its your choice, but its a poor substitute in my view. These are not pets they are working dogs, although we’ll love our fella just as much.
Oh, another one I've thought of, which applies to ALL dogs. Socialise him as much as you can with other dogs from a young age, so he grows up OK with them. One of ours was re-homed 3x before us, all before 1 years old. He's a stunning dog (viz x dobe) so he appealed, but then 'owners' realised he was hard work, we presume. This lead to a lack of socialisation with other dogs, and isolation in kennels, resulting in him now acting up whenever we encounter other dogs. Trust me, it's a royal pain in the arse, plus his behaviour is now rubbing off on another of ours, who is copying him.
LotusMartin said:
I’ve been thinking about the beccleuch DVDs they do get amazing reviews. In fact I nearly bought a pup from a Beccleuch Pepper litter, but decided it was a bit too FTCH for what I need.
As for Chris, I’m sure he’s never hit a dog in his life, and to accuse him of that is probably liablous so I’d be careful if I were you. I’ve seen his videos and I know about the RSPCA BS he had to tollerate as well as the online trolling from the snowflakes, I’d be happy to leave my pup with him and might very well do that.
At the end of the day, my dog, and the dogs he trains are put in a dangerous situation with guns around, occasionally they need some ‘tough love’ to keep them trained and safe. That is not an excuse or a justification - just fact.
There is a line that can be crossed, but I view his methods as a reasonable ‘short sharp shock’ which are part of effective training. stick to ‘positive only’ if you want, its your choice, but its a poor substitute in my view. These are not pets they are working dogs, although we’ll love our fella just as much.
My spaniel lives in the house, sleeps on the sofa and occasionally sneaks upstairs, never been hit though has been scruffed and it's trained to FT standards and she works the beating line every year. Most of that training has been done with positive reinforcement, lots of praise, cuddles and fun. Spaniels are a bit sensitive to the abrasive methods of training. . Abrasive training methods are down to timing, screw that up and that's one ruined dog. As for Chris, I’m sure he’s never hit a dog in his life, and to accuse him of that is probably liablous so I’d be careful if I were you. I’ve seen his videos and I know about the RSPCA BS he had to tollerate as well as the online trolling from the snowflakes, I’d be happy to leave my pup with him and might very well do that.
At the end of the day, my dog, and the dogs he trains are put in a dangerous situation with guns around, occasionally they need some ‘tough love’ to keep them trained and safe. That is not an excuse or a justification - just fact.
There is a line that can be crossed, but I view his methods as a reasonable ‘short sharp shock’ which are part of effective training. stick to ‘positive only’ if you want, its your choice, but its a poor substitute in my view. These are not pets they are working dogs, although we’ll love our fella just as much.
Edited by Never you mind on Friday 11th May 14:18
Never you mind said:
My spaniel lives in the house, sleeps on the sofa and occasionally sneaks upstairs, never been hit though has been scruffed and it's trained to FT standards and she works the beating line every year. Most of that training has been done with positive reinforcement, lots of praise, cuddles and fun. Spaniels are a bit sensitive to the abrasive methods of training. . Abrasive training methods are down to timing, screw that up and that's one ruined dog.
Exactly. no one in their right mind is going to ‘beat’ a dog, I want a confident well behaved hunting machine! ‘Scruffing’ as you put it is a short sharp shock that is not hurting the dog, just training it in a specific and exceptional circumstance. I’m hoping fun and praise are all I’ll need but I’m not writing it off!Edited by Never you mind on Friday 11th May 14:18
Our fella will be kennelled in the barn at night and in a big outdoor run in the garden, that I overlook during the day. The farmer nextdoor has 7 ESS some of which I walk and 2 more pups on the way. He’s not going to be short of buddies to play with!
LotusMartin said:
Exactly. no one in their right mind is going to ‘beat’ a dog, I want a confident well behaved hunting machine! ‘Scruffing’ as you put it is a short sharp shock that is not hurting the dog, just training it in a specific and exceptional circumstance. I’m hoping fun and praise are all I’ll need but I’m not writing it off!
Our fella will be kennelled in the barn at night and in a big outdoor run in the garden, that I overlook during the day. The farmer nextdoor has 7 ESS some of which I walk and 2 more pups on the way. He’s not going to be short of buddies to play with!
A wise man once said, train the dog that's in front of you. Some don't like "short sharp shock" some can be hard headed little buggers. Our fella will be kennelled in the barn at night and in a big outdoor run in the garden, that I overlook during the day. The farmer nextdoor has 7 ESS some of which I walk and 2 more pups on the way. He’s not going to be short of buddies to play with!
If it's well behaved you might end up with a sticky dog that doesn't hunt that hard. That can be a downside to over doing the obedience side of things especially with the more "Old fashioned" methods.
Let it be a puppy first and foremost and be patient.
LotusMartin said:
I’ve been thinking about the beccleuch DVDs they do get amazing reviews. In fact I nearly bought a pup from a Beccleuch Pepper litter, but decided it was a bit too FTCH for what I need.
As for Chris, I’m sure he’s never hit a dog in his life, and to accuse him of that is probably liablous so I’d be careful if I were you. I’ve seen his videos and I know about the RSPCA BS he had to tollerate as well as the online trolling from the snowflakes, I’d be happy to leave my pup with him and might very well do that.
At the end of the day, my dog, and the dogs he trains are put in a dangerous situation with guns around, occasionally they need some ‘tough love’ to keep them trained and safe. That is not an excuse or a justification - just fact.
There is a line that can be crossed, but I view his methods as a reasonable ‘short sharp shock’ which are part of effective training. stick to ‘positive only’ if you want, its your choice, but its a poor substitute in my view. These are not pets they are working dogs, although we’ll love our fella just as much.
Tough love? Good luck! Anyone on here can watch his YouTube videos and see and make their own mind up how he trains his dogs. As for Chris, I’m sure he’s never hit a dog in his life, and to accuse him of that is probably liablous so I’d be careful if I were you. I’ve seen his videos and I know about the RSPCA BS he had to tollerate as well as the online trolling from the snowflakes, I’d be happy to leave my pup with him and might very well do that.
At the end of the day, my dog, and the dogs he trains are put in a dangerous situation with guns around, occasionally they need some ‘tough love’ to keep them trained and safe. That is not an excuse or a justification - just fact.
There is a line that can be crossed, but I view his methods as a reasonable ‘short sharp shock’ which are part of effective training. stick to ‘positive only’ if you want, its your choice, but its a poor substitute in my view. These are not pets they are working dogs, although we’ll love our fella just as much.
I mentioned hittting, apologies, libellous? what I should have said was spanking firmly, then pulling them by the ears to put them back in place is perhaps not ok!.
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