Puppy - Crate training
Discussion
We will have a puppy joining our family soon. Last night the kids had quite a heated discussion about 'crate training' and where to put the toilet and sleeping areas.
One school of thought appears to have both within the crate and the other suggests having the sleeping area in the crate and the toilet area outside (but inside the 'pen'. Then there's the subject of closing the crate door etc.
There's loads and loads of info on the web about this, but there's differences to all of it, with many claiming to be an 'authority'.
Can anyone on here suggest a suitable arrangement/regime for an 8 week old puppy? We will have a crate inside a pen in the kitchen (tiled floor)
TIA
One school of thought appears to have both within the crate and the other suggests having the sleeping area in the crate and the toilet area outside (but inside the 'pen'. Then there's the subject of closing the crate door etc.
There's loads and loads of info on the web about this, but there's differences to all of it, with many claiming to be an 'authority'.
Can anyone on here suggest a suitable arrangement/regime for an 8 week old puppy? We will have a crate inside a pen in the kitchen (tiled floor)
TIA
Hi
I can confirm I am certainly not an authority! However, in a very similar position as our 8 week old labrador puppy came home on Friday just gone.
We also have a tiled kitchen which I've put a stair gate across to contain him for a good few months.
During the day I watch him as he gets tired (or after a lot of play), then put him in the crate with a couple of treats and praise and he generally goes out like a light! In there is just his bed and a padded backed mat. They have quite a strong nest instinct so won't mess it unless they're absolutely desperate (and would have been awake for a while, making noise!). Once he's awake it's straight outside until he goes to the toilet and we won't put him in there unless he's been recently.
At night however (or extended periods), I fold his bed in half (it's a large crate) and put a puppy pad at one side if he gets desperate (with a bowl of water too). I let him out around 11pm for a wee, then he stirs around 5:30am which I try an preempt so I don't go when he's making a fuss. He's only used the pad once so far
Hope this is of some help
ETA: we don't put a pad down elsewhere as the weather is good so the back door is open
I can confirm I am certainly not an authority! However, in a very similar position as our 8 week old labrador puppy came home on Friday just gone.
We also have a tiled kitchen which I've put a stair gate across to contain him for a good few months.
During the day I watch him as he gets tired (or after a lot of play), then put him in the crate with a couple of treats and praise and he generally goes out like a light! In there is just his bed and a padded backed mat. They have quite a strong nest instinct so won't mess it unless they're absolutely desperate (and would have been awake for a while, making noise!). Once he's awake it's straight outside until he goes to the toilet and we won't put him in there unless he's been recently.
At night however (or extended periods), I fold his bed in half (it's a large crate) and put a puppy pad at one side if he gets desperate (with a bowl of water too). I let him out around 11pm for a wee, then he stirs around 5:30am which I try an preempt so I don't go when he's making a fuss. He's only used the pad once so far
Hope this is of some help
ETA: we don't put a pad down elsewhere as the weather is good so the back door is open
Edited by timbobalob on Wednesday 18th April 11:04
Ranger 6 said:
Thanks - that's interesting as we've been told he's not to be allowed outside. I don't know how long that will be for.
No worries.Is that to do with inoculations? If so it's fine in your garden (as long as it's contained and with no chance of infection from other dogs - current or in the past as parvo can last a year on the ground I believe).
Rex had his jabs on Friday and the second is booked for four weeks after, then it's at least a week after that - so aged 13-14 weeks for him before he's fully covered. Can't wait as this was a big thing for us getting a dog and he is getting heavy carrying around outside! I'm keen to get him to see lots of traffic/people/dogs around to socialise as much as possible - trips to the shops etc, just not putting him down on the ground or get licked by other dogs.
What type of dog are you getting?
What breed did you get?
I would say its definitely best to keep the toilet area outside their crate, they shouldn't be sharing their sleeping/safe space with their toilet in my opinion. This should also help with house training when they get used to being outside the crate and treat the house as they would the crate.
We didn't have a puppy pen when we first got ours and just crate trained him from the start and took him outside to go to the toilet whenever he needed it, when very young took him out at least once an hour to make sure to avoid accidents during the day and get him used to doing it outside from the start. Of course there were some occasional accidents, but seemed to work well for us anyway.
During the night he was generally very good and would let us know when he needed to get out, but we did keep his crate beside the bed so we could hear him if he woke up.
Regarding not being allowed to take him out, I think this is more to do with meeting other dogs?
If you have your own garden or a quiet area nearby the house that other dogs wont go, then I don't see any reason he cant go there, that's how we did it with ours anyway. Once he was old enough and had all his vaccines then he got introduced to other dogs and was able to go to places they would be.
I am by no means an expert though, just grew up with dogs in the family so advice based purely on this!
P.s. make sure to post pics of the puppy when it arrives in the photo thread
ETA - I see Timbobalob beat me to it, I got distracted half way through typing that but seems to be along the same lines anyway...
I would say its definitely best to keep the toilet area outside their crate, they shouldn't be sharing their sleeping/safe space with their toilet in my opinion. This should also help with house training when they get used to being outside the crate and treat the house as they would the crate.
We didn't have a puppy pen when we first got ours and just crate trained him from the start and took him outside to go to the toilet whenever he needed it, when very young took him out at least once an hour to make sure to avoid accidents during the day and get him used to doing it outside from the start. Of course there were some occasional accidents, but seemed to work well for us anyway.
During the night he was generally very good and would let us know when he needed to get out, but we did keep his crate beside the bed so we could hear him if he woke up.
Regarding not being allowed to take him out, I think this is more to do with meeting other dogs?
If you have your own garden or a quiet area nearby the house that other dogs wont go, then I don't see any reason he cant go there, that's how we did it with ours anyway. Once he was old enough and had all his vaccines then he got introduced to other dogs and was able to go to places they would be.
I am by no means an expert though, just grew up with dogs in the family so advice based purely on this!
P.s. make sure to post pics of the puppy when it arrives in the photo thread
ETA - I see Timbobalob beat me to it, I got distracted half way through typing that but seems to be along the same lines anyway...
Edited by Lazermilk on Wednesday 18th April 11:36
We had our springer pup in the crate for sleep, quiet time and any other time we didn’t want him knocking around. No food or toilet in the crate. When he was very young we had a pen around the crate which was where he spent time and had his food served.
Toilet trips always to the garden from day 1; every 30mins or so at first but they soon get better at holding. Always keep an eye on them so you know what they have done.
Avoid food and drink in the evening and do a quick toilet trip before bed , then the crate should always be clean in the morning.
Only downside of overnight crating has been the 2 or 3 occasions when he has had an upset tummy, can’t help himself s
tting in the crate and then rolling in it.
Toilet trips always to the garden from day 1; every 30mins or so at first but they soon get better at holding. Always keep an eye on them so you know what they have done.
Avoid food and drink in the evening and do a quick toilet trip before bed , then the crate should always be clean in the morning.
Only downside of overnight crating has been the 2 or 3 occasions when he has had an upset tummy, can’t help himself s
tting in the crate and then rolling in it.We found our rescue dogs to have a lot of anxiety about crates etc.
Feeding them with them with the door open, but bowl inside the crate worked really well and then progressively we would close the door whilst they were eating etc. It worked for us and our dogs loved their crates in a few weeks. We moved the food out of the crate and always gave the dogs treats when we had to crate them.
Feeding them with them with the door open, but bowl inside the crate worked really well and then progressively we would close the door whilst they were eating etc. It worked for us and our dogs loved their crates in a few weeks. We moved the food out of the crate and always gave the dogs treats when we had to crate them.
We had a big crate so it was big enough to make his bed and have space for water bowl. Definitely NO toileting in crate.
First night home from breeder is difficult due to crying, just put the telly on loud or do some hoovering.
Regarding toileting the breeder had paper trained him, so we had paper down in case of accidents, but as others have said, frequent trips outside, and he was soon trained. Think there were only two poops inside when he was very young, and after first week only wees if he got excited.
Now his house/garden training is almost too far the other way. He absolutely will not poop in the garden, even if he's absolutely busting need to get him out over the fence and into the field. Needless to say nothing in house.
One bit of advice I'll give, everyone, even those who have had a dog before, but never experienced the puppy stage, completely underestimates those first weeks as to how knackering they are. You can't exercise their energy off the same way you can with walks etc. In those first weeks after his final vaccinations we probably overexercised him just to keep the level of insanity and zoomies in check. Couple that with disturbed sleep, possibly letting him out at 4am, good luck. As soon as your feet hit the floor in a morning he will be after attention and to go out.
Don't be tempted to take him out in public until his vaccinations are done. So many dodgy imports coming in, kennels not that far away, Evesham, under quarantine due to distemper. You just don't want to take a risk.
First night home from breeder is difficult due to crying, just put the telly on loud or do some hoovering.
Regarding toileting the breeder had paper trained him, so we had paper down in case of accidents, but as others have said, frequent trips outside, and he was soon trained. Think there were only two poops inside when he was very young, and after first week only wees if he got excited.
Now his house/garden training is almost too far the other way. He absolutely will not poop in the garden, even if he's absolutely busting need to get him out over the fence and into the field. Needless to say nothing in house.
One bit of advice I'll give, everyone, even those who have had a dog before, but never experienced the puppy stage, completely underestimates those first weeks as to how knackering they are. You can't exercise their energy off the same way you can with walks etc. In those first weeks after his final vaccinations we probably overexercised him just to keep the level of insanity and zoomies in check. Couple that with disturbed sleep, possibly letting him out at 4am, good luck. As soon as your feet hit the floor in a morning he will be after attention and to go out.
Don't be tempted to take him out in public until his vaccinations are done. So many dodgy imports coming in, kennels not that far away, Evesham, under quarantine due to distemper. You just don't want to take a risk.
FiF said:
One bit of advice I'll give, everyone, even those who have had a dog before, but never experienced the puppy stage, completely underestimates those first weeks as to how knackering they are. You can't exercise their energy off the same way you can with walks etc. In those first weeks after his final vaccinations we probably overexercised him just to keep the level of insanity and zoomies in check. Couple that with disturbed sleep, possibly letting him out at 4am, good luck. As soon as your feet hit the floor in a morning he will be after attention and to go out.
This times a thousand!It's exhausting and they just don't stop! When you do, they just turn it up and go nuts... (have literally sat down having had Rex have a mad 5 minutes...)
timbobalob said:
Hi
I can confirm I am certainly not an authority! However, in a very similar position as our 8 week old labrador puppy came home on Friday just gone.
We also have a tiled kitchen which I've put a stair gate across to contain him for a good few months.
During the day I watch him as he gets tired (or after a lot of play), then put him in the crate with a couple of treats and praise and he generally goes out like a light! In there is just his bed and a padded backed mat. They have quite a strong nest instinct so won't mess it unless they're absolutely desperate (and would have been awake for a while, making noise!). Once he's awake it's straight outside until he goes to the toilet and we won't put him in there unless he's been recently.
At night however (or extended periods), I fold his bed in half (it's a large crate) and put a puppy pad at one side if he gets desperate (with a bowl of water too). I let him out around 11pm for a wee, then he stirs around 5:30am which I try an preempt so I don't go when he's making a fuss. He's only used the pad once so far
Hope this is of some help
ETA: we don't put a pad down elsewhere as the weather is good so the back door is open
I can confirm I am certainly not an authority! However, in a very similar position as our 8 week old labrador puppy came home on Friday just gone.
We also have a tiled kitchen which I've put a stair gate across to contain him for a good few months.
During the day I watch him as he gets tired (or after a lot of play), then put him in the crate with a couple of treats and praise and he generally goes out like a light! In there is just his bed and a padded backed mat. They have quite a strong nest instinct so won't mess it unless they're absolutely desperate (and would have been awake for a while, making noise!). Once he's awake it's straight outside until he goes to the toilet and we won't put him in there unless he's been recently.
At night however (or extended periods), I fold his bed in half (it's a large crate) and put a puppy pad at one side if he gets desperate (with a bowl of water too). I let him out around 11pm for a wee, then he stirs around 5:30am which I try an preempt so I don't go when he's making a fuss. He's only used the pad once so far
Hope this is of some help
ETA: we don't put a pad down elsewhere as the weather is good so the back door is open
Edited by timbobalob on Wednesday 18th April 11:04
Pretty much what we did with our Lab. Whenever he went in we made sure he got a couple of treats so it became a positive experience for him. Never used as "punishment".Zed Ed said:
Toilet trips always to the garden from day 1; every 30mins or so at first but they soon get better at holding. Always keep an eye on them so you know what they have done.
Avoid food and drink in the evening and do a quick toilet trip before bed , then the crate should always be clean in the morning.
Definitely this. And we have a specific gravel area in the garden for him to use rather than him sAvoid food and drink in the evening and do a quick toilet trip before bed , then the crate should always be clean in the morning.
tting anywhere.Got my lab puppy at 7.5 weeks old. At night he was only in the kitchen as the floor could take and accidents. We got a medium crate so at night he went in that and after a week he would cry if he needed a wee or poo so we let him in the garden. He would do his business and he has never had a issue since. When he was 3 months old he had a wee on my mums carpet that is it.
Every night we gave him a small kong with a treat in and shut the cage so he knew its not a punishment and he has been happy ever since with his bed in it.
4 months old he started to cry as wanted to get out about 6 am. We just let him out for a wee then left the door open, he isn't keen on the claustrophobic side of it I guess
Still use the cage but a larger one at my mums incase he chews anything (being 8 months old now he likes chewing things not battened down or out of reach)
We tent to just shut the dining and kitchen door so he can wonder around In the 2 rooms but they grow so fast lol
We are taking him to France in a few months but the cage wont fit in my car so hope to god he doesn't chew the boot of the car while hes on the ferry or I wont be happy lol.
Every night we gave him a small kong with a treat in and shut the cage so he knew its not a punishment and he has been happy ever since with his bed in it.
4 months old he started to cry as wanted to get out about 6 am. We just let him out for a wee then left the door open, he isn't keen on the claustrophobic side of it I guess
Still use the cage but a larger one at my mums incase he chews anything (being 8 months old now he likes chewing things not battened down or out of reach)
We tent to just shut the dining and kitchen door so he can wonder around In the 2 rooms but they grow so fast lol
We are taking him to France in a few months but the cage wont fit in my car so hope to god he doesn't chew the boot of the car while hes on the ferry or I wont be happy lol.
You could get something like this for the car boot, may help avoid the car being chewed at least:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBQ8V83/ref=sspa_dk...
Also plenty of his toys in the back
Also for Ranger, in case you weren't aware one thing to think of is the amount you walk them in the beginning, their bones are still quite soft and I read its recommended to slowly build up the walks when they are at a young age to avoid issues with joints as the bones grow and harden. If I remember rightly it was something like 5 minutes extra per month in general, worth checking or asking at the vet for advice.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBQ8V83/ref=sspa_dk...
Also plenty of his toys in the back
Also for Ranger, in case you weren't aware one thing to think of is the amount you walk them in the beginning, their bones are still quite soft and I read its recommended to slowly build up the walks when they are at a young age to avoid issues with joints as the bones grow and harden. If I remember rightly it was something like 5 minutes extra per month in general, worth checking or asking at the vet for advice.
Lazermilk said:
You could get something like this for the car boot, may help avoid the car being chewed at least:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBQ8V83/ref=sspa_dk...
Also plenty of his toys in the back
Also for Ranger, in case you weren't aware one thing to think of is the amount you walk them in the beginning, their bones are still quite soft and I read its recommended to slowly build up the walks when they are at a young age to avoid issues with joints as the bones grow and harden. If I remember rightly it was something like 5 minutes extra per month in general, worth checking or asking at the vet for advice.
Think I will have to thanks for the link.https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B06XBQ8V83/ref=sspa_dk...
Also plenty of his toys in the back
Also for Ranger, in case you weren't aware one thing to think of is the amount you walk them in the beginning, their bones are still quite soft and I read its recommended to slowly build up the walks when they are at a young age to avoid issues with joints as the bones grow and harden. If I remember rightly it was something like 5 minutes extra per month in general, worth checking or asking at the vet for advice.
As you say yes, most people walk / run the dog loads it causes issues so shouldn't really do it. Small bits every so often and build it up. I took mine to the local shopping town walked him a little then put him in a rucksack to sleep then repeat.
We got our standard poodle at 9 weeks old. She slept in a crate. Every time she woke up and every time she ate she was taken outside and put on the lawn until she performed.
Toilet trained within a fortnight.
As for puppys not getting out until fully inoculated. There is a conflict between infection risk and getting the pup acclimatised to life outside the house. We carried our pup around the local town centre and took her to puppy classes. She has ended up well socialised to dogs and people.
I still think we should hsve got her out more as she can be nervous with sudden loud noises. I talked to one German Shepherd breeder who said she used to take pups under 8 weeks old to Glasgow Central Station to acclimitise them to noise and crowds. Again not on the ground or in contact with other dogs.
I read a quote a while back that far more dogs need to get put down due to lack of early socialisation then catch Parvo - assuming sensible precautions are taken. Basically "The consensus is that the risk of poor socialisation outweighs the risks of disease."
https://www.thelabradorsite.com/when-can-i-take-my...
Toilet trained within a fortnight.
As for puppys not getting out until fully inoculated. There is a conflict between infection risk and getting the pup acclimatised to life outside the house. We carried our pup around the local town centre and took her to puppy classes. She has ended up well socialised to dogs and people.
I still think we should hsve got her out more as she can be nervous with sudden loud noises. I talked to one German Shepherd breeder who said she used to take pups under 8 weeks old to Glasgow Central Station to acclimitise them to noise and crowds. Again not on the ground or in contact with other dogs.
I read a quote a while back that far more dogs need to get put down due to lack of early socialisation then catch Parvo - assuming sensible precautions are taken. Basically "The consensus is that the risk of poor socialisation outweighs the risks of disease."
https://www.thelabradorsite.com/when-can-i-take-my...
irc said:
We got our standard poodle at 9 weeks old. She slept in a crate. Every time she woke up and every time she ate she was taken outside and put on the lawn until she performed.
Toilet trained within a fortnight.
As for puppys not getting out until fully inoculated. There is a conflict between infection risk and getting the pup acclimatised to life outside the house. We carried our pup around the local town centre and took her to puppy classes. She has ended up well socialised to dogs and people.
I still think we should hsve got her out more as she can be nervous with sudden loud noises. I talked to one German Shepherd breeder who said she used to take pups under 8 weeks old to Glasgow Central Station to acclimitise them to noise and crowds. Again not on the ground or in contact with other dogs.
I read a quote a while back that far more dogs need to get put down due to lack of early socialisation then catch Parvo - assuming sensible precautions are taken. Basically "The consensus is that the risk of poor socialisation outweighs the risks of disease."
https://www.thelabradorsite.com/when-can-i-take-my...
Can't agree more with this post.Toilet trained within a fortnight.
As for puppys not getting out until fully inoculated. There is a conflict between infection risk and getting the pup acclimatised to life outside the house. We carried our pup around the local town centre and took her to puppy classes. She has ended up well socialised to dogs and people.
I still think we should hsve got her out more as she can be nervous with sudden loud noises. I talked to one German Shepherd breeder who said she used to take pups under 8 weeks old to Glasgow Central Station to acclimitise them to noise and crowds. Again not on the ground or in contact with other dogs.
I read a quote a while back that far more dogs need to get put down due to lack of early socialisation then catch Parvo - assuming sensible precautions are taken. Basically "The consensus is that the risk of poor socialisation outweighs the risks of disease."
https://www.thelabradorsite.com/when-can-i-take-my...
Our Lab Fred came home with us just over two years ago. We had a cage for him which he got into by himself on coming home.
The cage was large enough for a full size Lab but had a divider in so it was just big enough for him to sleep in. Dogs will not soil their sleeping area unless desperate and if they are that desperate you have left them to long.
Fred was taken outside every time he ate and drank and was mainly house trained within 2 weeks. A couple of accidents after that but I would say it was us not reacting fast enough rather than him wanting to pee indoors (he never had a poo indoors).
As for not going out, 8-12 weeks is when he needs to be socialised!! He was in the back garden all the time, friends would bring their dogs around. We would take to the pub in the evening for a short time in a basket, he wasn't allowed on the floor. We would take him around to friends houses to mix with their dogs.
Day 1:
His new best mates coming to stay the following weekend:
Taking me for a pint this week:
Edited by babelfish on Friday 20th April 00:41
Our pup hated his crate, tried all the tricks, making him feel at home feeding him in it. No worky.
He ended up battering the thing across the room, and opening the door. So started just leaving him with the free run of the house and a frozen peanut butter Kong. Absolutely fine, no chewing, no toilet accidents, no stress, no barking, just a bit subdued.
Every dogs different.
He ended up battering the thing across the room, and opening the door. So started just leaving him with the free run of the house and a frozen peanut butter Kong. Absolutely fine, no chewing, no toilet accidents, no stress, no barking, just a bit subdued.
Every dogs different.
Ranger 6 said:
Australian Labradoodle - a bundle of fluff to start with 
And a pain in the arse if you don't house train and socialise effectively and quickly..... having just re-read the thread and seeing you are/were intending to keep the dog locked up indoors for a number of weeks I think you need to reconsider this and if not confident with a new dog take professional advise as to what you do in the first few weeks as this will have long term ramifications.Gassing Station | All Creatures Great & Small | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff