Saving the British Bulldog BBC1 14-3-2018
Discussion
Should be interesting.
I fully expect to be shouting at the TV as the Kennel Club and Bulldog breeders attempt to justify turning the Bulldog, a dog that was once athletic enough to tackle a half wild bull, into a fat stumpy wheezy mess.
(Nothing personal, Bulldog lovers, my granddaughter has a Bulldog. He's a lovely dog, but he'd be better if he was like the pre dog show version. IMHO they could make the same programme about any number of breeds.)
Saving the British Bulldog BBC1 Wednesday 14/03/2018 21:00
Britain's most iconic dog is in crisis. Comedian, actress and dog lover Catherine Tate investigates the serious health problems affecting the British bulldog and what can be done to save it.
At the start of 2018, vets launched a national campaign urging prospective dog owners to think twice about buying flat-faced breeds like bulldogs.
Meeting breeders, dog owners and vets, Catherine asks what's causing the bulldog's problems, as well as exploring the latest scientific research, which suggests controversial ways to save the breed. She also asks the Kennel Club, the leading authority in charge of pedigree dogs, whether they're doing enough.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tt539
I fully expect to be shouting at the TV as the Kennel Club and Bulldog breeders attempt to justify turning the Bulldog, a dog that was once athletic enough to tackle a half wild bull, into a fat stumpy wheezy mess.
(Nothing personal, Bulldog lovers, my granddaughter has a Bulldog. He's a lovely dog, but he'd be better if he was like the pre dog show version. IMHO they could make the same programme about any number of breeds.)
Saving the British Bulldog BBC1 Wednesday 14/03/2018 21:00
Britain's most iconic dog is in crisis. Comedian, actress and dog lover Catherine Tate investigates the serious health problems affecting the British bulldog and what can be done to save it.
At the start of 2018, vets launched a national campaign urging prospective dog owners to think twice about buying flat-faced breeds like bulldogs.
Meeting breeders, dog owners and vets, Catherine asks what's causing the bulldog's problems, as well as exploring the latest scientific research, which suggests controversial ways to save the breed. She also asks the Kennel Club, the leading authority in charge of pedigree dogs, whether they're doing enough.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b09tt539
Edited by gareth_r on Friday 16th March 16:11
Johnnytheboy said:
In my experience a lot of how adult bulldogs turn out is how they are brought up. If they are exercised a fair bit the tend to grow up longer in the leg with more of a propensity for exercise.
But I've actually been told by a breeder to keep my dog fat.
Some breeders have not one ounce of knowledge on dogs. If you keep a dog overweight, it affects the breathing, heart, joints plus a lot more same as humans. But I've actually been told by a breeder to keep my dog fat.
Crazy
Batleyred said:
Johnnytheboy said:
In my experience a lot of how adult bulldogs turn out is how they are brought up. If they are exercised a fair bit the tend to grow up longer in the leg with more of a propensity for exercise.
But I've actually been told by a breeder to keep my dog fat.
Some breeders have not one ounce of knowledge on dogs. If you keep a dog overweight, it affects the breathing, heart, joints plus a lot more same as humans. But I've actually been told by a breeder to keep my dog fat.
Crazy
I'm always being asked if she is a puppy (she is 5 years old) and a few times the wife has had people make snidy comments from fellow dog owners saying she is clearly not fed properly as she is too thin.
HTP99 said:
Our French Bull Dog is very lean and slim, the vet always comments on how good she looks and in what great shape and condition she is in, he said many Frenchies are just fat and not exercised properly as they "look cuter" cuter like that.
I'm always being asked if she is a puppy (she is 5 years old) and a few times the wife has had people make snidy comments from fellow dog owners saying she is clearly not fed properly as she is too thin.
Agree, out vet is the same. You can not beat a dog in proper condition, many people think they are too thin but that is not the case. To me it shows you understand a dog benefits from a good diet. I will try to find a picture of Gina my American Bulldog.I'm always being asked if she is a puppy (she is 5 years old) and a few times the wife has had people make snidy comments from fellow dog owners saying she is clearly not fed properly as she is too thin.
Here she is, Gina
I have been accused of things like steroids with Gina etc but if people had facts before they spoke it would be a far better place. She plays football with a boomer ball an hour a day to stay like she is.
Batleyred said:
HTP99 said:
Our French Bull Dog is very lean and slim, the vet always comments on how good she looks and in what great shape and condition she is in, he said many Frenchies are just fat and not exercised properly as they "look cuter" cuter like that.
I'm always being asked if she is a puppy (she is 5 years old) and a few times the wife has had people make snidy comments from fellow dog owners saying she is clearly not fed properly as she is too thin.
Agree, out vet is the same. You can not beat a dog in proper condition, many people think they are too thin but that is not the case. To me it shows you understand a dog benefits from a good diet. I will try to find a picture of Gina my American Bulldog.I'm always being asked if she is a puppy (she is 5 years old) and a few times the wife has had people make snidy comments from fellow dog owners saying she is clearly not fed properly as she is too thin.
Here she is, Gina
I have been accused of things like steroids with Gina etc but if people had facts before they spoke it would be a far better place. She plays football with a boomer ball an hour a day to stay like she is.
What saddened me with this programme was the Kennel Club and their "it's the breed standard" line..
But surely if the "Breed standard" is producing unhealthy dogs, surely the breed standard needs to be changed to force breeders away from breeding from unhealthy genes..
The other worrying part was from the genetics specialist, who essentially said that there was a such a narrow gene pool now that there was no way to breed a healthy dog without passing on the mutated gene that causes the health issues..
But surely if the "Breed standard" is producing unhealthy dogs, surely the breed standard needs to be changed to force breeders away from breeding from unhealthy genes..
The other worrying part was from the genetics specialist, who essentially said that there was a such a narrow gene pool now that there was no way to breed a healthy dog without passing on the mutated gene that causes the health issues..
gareth_r said:
...I fully expect to be shouting at the TV...
As predicted. 
All my prejudices about show breeders and the Kennel Club confirmed.
I don't know why she didn't just show them that painting of "Crib and Rosa" and ask why Bulldogs don't look like that now.
Also, why not explain that all dog breeds only exist because of inbreeding (and ruthless culling), so the Bulldog isn't the only breed that would benefit from outcrossing. It's not as if it hasn't happened before. The coloured Bull Terrier exists because there were so many genetic problems with the white Bull Terrier (before they even acquired the malformed head) that they had to outcross to non-KC (Staffordshire) bull terriers to save the breed.
Should have given the job to Andrew Neil.
I haven't watched that yet, will hopefully get around to it at the weekend. The modern Bulldog goes back to the mid 18th century shortly after bull baiting and similar bloodsports were banned in 1835. Once that had gone they were changed and outcrossed to create a similar facsimile to how they look today based purely on "aesthetics", with a complete absence of function. They were the first breed to get a kennel club standard. Strangely, there's a lot of rubbish associated with their appearance in the current standard which is excused or at least explained away with nonsense - undershot jaw, blood wrinkles etc. If you look at most paintings and illustrations of bulldogs going back centuries, it's quite clear that they are actually American Pit Bull Terriers by modern definition, both in form but physical ability. I have shown and judged KC shows. Breed standards are fine if they aren't physically detrimental and more importantly judged with an understanding of health or certainly ensuring decisions prioritsed on that. Outcrossing to introduce new genes into a closed breed group should also be given acceptance and use whereas it seems to be regarded as a taboo. However, some breeds are too far gone in my opinion, certainly any extreme bracycephalic breeds. Interesting to see Crib and Rosa mentioned, those dogs are the template of modern Leavitt Bulldogs which are identical.
Pinball said:
I haven't watched that yet, will hopefully get around to it at the weekend. The modern Bulldog goes back to the mid 18th century shortly after bull baiting and similar bloodsports were banned in 1835. Once that had gone they were changed and outcrossed to create a similar facsimile to how they look today based purely on "aesthetics", with a complete absence of function. They were the first breed to get a kennel club standard. Strangely, there's a lot of rubbish associated with their appearance in the current standard which is excused or at least explained away with nonsense - undershot jaw, blood wrinkles etc. If you look at most paintings and illustrations of bulldogs going back centuries, it's quite clear that they are actually American Pit Bull Terriers by modern definition, both in form but physical ability. I have shown and judged KC shows. Breed standards are fine if they aren't physically detrimental and more importantly judged with an understanding of health or certainly ensuring decisions prioritsed on that. Outcrossing to introduce new genes into a closed breed group should also be given acceptance and use whereas it seems to be regarded as a taboo. However, some breeds are too far gone in my opinion, certainly any extreme bracycephalic breeds. Interesting to see Crib and Rosa mentioned, those dogs are the template of modern Leavitt Bulldogs which are identical.
I own Leavitts, pic below Girly my Champion Leavitt 12 months old in pic.
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