When is enough treatment
Discussion
Hi
I'm a total cat lady, I have 8 of them. It was 9 but I lost a middle aged one a month ago to inoperable throat cancer. I've got one that also has skin cancer but regular nips and tucks of suspect bumps appear to be keeping it at bay
I also have a not quite 6 year domestic short haired which was diagnosed as diabetic two months ago. He also has had a runny tummy since just before the diabetes diagnosis but vet said it was linked
Fast forward to last weekend having been giving him twice daily insulin injections and the runny tummy is still there, so is the raging thirst and the weight loss from the runny tummy is becoming a concern. He was booked in to see vet but collapsed Saturday night. Emergency vet gave option of pts but I chose to try treatment. £750 for overnight treatment and then Sunday over to our vets. He spent 3 days on a drip and a lot of tests have now revealed he has a heart murmur the cause of which is still not known, pancreatitis which is causing pain which in turn is causing him not not really show huge interest in food. He is eating but not enough which is causing insulin issues still. He has vitamin b12 deficiency, irritable bowel disease and is gagging or gulping as the vets call it. We do not know why but it could also potentially be throat cancer.
He's a young cat but you can see he is miserable but we are struggling to get pain relief in him to help him
I don't want to lose him but I just think all these issues alone are not insurmountable but added together I'm wondering if we will ever restore a quality of life for him.
He has gone from mid 4kilos to 3.3kg and is a bag of bones. There is barely anything left to lose bar muscle mass
I'm leaning on the give him a few weeks to see if we can save him but I'm unsure at what point we are being unkind. I know vets tend to say but I'm concerned my vets is now seeing us also as money making. I don't mean their advice isn't completely good but I'm just a bit unsure now.
I guess taking him for a second opinion is the answer but was hoping if anyone could offer a medical opinion or just make me see where we are without the emotional attachment clouding my judgement that I think is happening
God, I do love this little bugger
I'm a total cat lady, I have 8 of them. It was 9 but I lost a middle aged one a month ago to inoperable throat cancer. I've got one that also has skin cancer but regular nips and tucks of suspect bumps appear to be keeping it at bay
I also have a not quite 6 year domestic short haired which was diagnosed as diabetic two months ago. He also has had a runny tummy since just before the diabetes diagnosis but vet said it was linked
Fast forward to last weekend having been giving him twice daily insulin injections and the runny tummy is still there, so is the raging thirst and the weight loss from the runny tummy is becoming a concern. He was booked in to see vet but collapsed Saturday night. Emergency vet gave option of pts but I chose to try treatment. £750 for overnight treatment and then Sunday over to our vets. He spent 3 days on a drip and a lot of tests have now revealed he has a heart murmur the cause of which is still not known, pancreatitis which is causing pain which in turn is causing him not not really show huge interest in food. He is eating but not enough which is causing insulin issues still. He has vitamin b12 deficiency, irritable bowel disease and is gagging or gulping as the vets call it. We do not know why but it could also potentially be throat cancer.
He's a young cat but you can see he is miserable but we are struggling to get pain relief in him to help him
I don't want to lose him but I just think all these issues alone are not insurmountable but added together I'm wondering if we will ever restore a quality of life for him.
He has gone from mid 4kilos to 3.3kg and is a bag of bones. There is barely anything left to lose bar muscle mass
I'm leaning on the give him a few weeks to see if we can save him but I'm unsure at what point we are being unkind. I know vets tend to say but I'm concerned my vets is now seeing us also as money making. I don't mean their advice isn't completely good but I'm just a bit unsure now.
I guess taking him for a second opinion is the answer but was hoping if anyone could offer a medical opinion or just make me see where we are without the emotional attachment clouding my judgement that I think is happening
God, I do love this little bugger
Edited by solo2 on Monday 26th February 11:30
Pancreatitis is tricky in cats as it is can be so variable. Some cats have a single uncomplicated bout and never seem to have issues again, where as others have a load of complicating factors and end up being put to sleep as a result. Diabetes is often quite straight forward to treat, when complicated with other diseases it becomes much more difficult. Pancreatitis often occurs with a liver problem (cholangiohepatitis) and IBD at the same time, termed Triaditis, again complicating things.
Pancreatitis causes abdominal pain and nausea, worsened by eating. The aim is to get the cat eating again to optimise conditions for the pancreas to recover, hence pain relief (and often anti emetics) are hugely important for recovery from pancreatitis. In a youngish 4kg DSH, I would expect the diabetes to be secondary to the pancreatitis which suggests that it may well have been grumbling on for some time.
Medical advice is really up to the vets treating. A referral to a (feline) medicine specialist would likely offer your best chance of a positive outcome, but will not be cheap. Different vets will treat this in different ways and some cats will respond better to one treatment or another.
As you have quite a few cats, I would be a little weary of some of the nastier viruses, FeLV, FIP for example. Do you vaccinate your cats? If not it would certainly be worth testing for FeLV.
From the information that you have given I would feel that a little more investigation / teatment would be worth considering, but you and your vet are best placed to judge when enough is enough.
Goodluck.
Pancreatitis causes abdominal pain and nausea, worsened by eating. The aim is to get the cat eating again to optimise conditions for the pancreas to recover, hence pain relief (and often anti emetics) are hugely important for recovery from pancreatitis. In a youngish 4kg DSH, I would expect the diabetes to be secondary to the pancreatitis which suggests that it may well have been grumbling on for some time.
Medical advice is really up to the vets treating. A referral to a (feline) medicine specialist would likely offer your best chance of a positive outcome, but will not be cheap. Different vets will treat this in different ways and some cats will respond better to one treatment or another.
As you have quite a few cats, I would be a little weary of some of the nastier viruses, FeLV, FIP for example. Do you vaccinate your cats? If not it would certainly be worth testing for FeLV.
From the information that you have given I would feel that a little more investigation / teatment would be worth considering, but you and your vet are best placed to judge when enough is enough.
Goodluck.
solo2 said:
Hi
He's a young cat but you can see he is miserable but we are struggling to get pain relief in him to help him
I don't want to lose him but I just think all these issues alone are not insurmountable but added together I'm wondering if we will ever restore a quality of life for him.
This is key. As a pet owner you have two responsibilities. To give your pet a nice life, and a nice passing. It is absolutely horrible, and I genuinely feel for you, but if your cat is unhappy then you need to act. Chat to the vet about the subject, they know the cat better. They'll know how unwell it actually is, and if it has no/little quality of life.He's a young cat but you can see he is miserable but we are struggling to get pain relief in him to help him
I don't want to lose him but I just think all these issues alone are not insurmountable but added together I'm wondering if we will ever restore a quality of life for him.
All the best, it's not nice.
Been a up and down weekend. Still cannot get him to eat much, been trying to tempt him with all sorts of things, the other cats are going bonkers wondering why they are not getting any of the stuff they can smell!
He's unsurprisingly lethargic and getting any meds in him is becoming a real battle as he runs away now he knows what coming. We're back at the vets with him tomorrow night, I'm hoping he hasn't lost anymore weight but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.
He's unsurprisingly lethargic and getting any meds in him is becoming a real battle as he runs away now he knows what coming. We're back at the vets with him tomorrow night, I'm hoping he hasn't lost anymore weight but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.
It might be worth asking your vet about the possibility of a Fentanyl patch for pain relief if you are struggling with oral meds. If they don't have the patch, then a very common opioid, Vetergesic / buprenorphine can be dribbled into the mouth at home.
Mirtazapine is an often effective appetite stimulant that is only given every 3 days, so could be given at the practice.
Mirtazapine is an often effective appetite stimulant that is only given every 3 days, so could be given at the practice.
Edited by jmsgld on Monday 26th February 18:27
solo2 said:
Been a up and down weekend. Still cannot get him to eat much, been trying to tempt him with all sorts of things, the other cats are going bonkers wondering why they are not getting any of the stuff they can smell!
He's unsurprisingly lethargic and getting any meds in him is becoming a real battle as he runs away now he knows what coming. We're back at the vets with him tomorrow night, I'm hoping he hasn't lost anymore weight but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.
Good luck tomorrow eveningHe's unsurprisingly lethargic and getting any meds in him is becoming a real battle as he runs away now he knows what coming. We're back at the vets with him tomorrow night, I'm hoping he hasn't lost anymore weight but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.
garythesign said:
solo2 said:
Been a up and down weekend. Still cannot get him to eat much, been trying to tempt him with all sorts of things, the other cats are going bonkers wondering why they are not getting any of the stuff they can smell!
He's unsurprisingly lethargic and getting any meds in him is becoming a real battle as he runs away now he knows what coming. We're back at the vets with him tomorrow night, I'm hoping he hasn't lost anymore weight but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.
Good luck tomorrow eveningHe's unsurprisingly lethargic and getting any meds in him is becoming a real battle as he runs away now he knows what coming. We're back at the vets with him tomorrow night, I'm hoping he hasn't lost anymore weight but I sincerely doubt that will be the case.
He's lost another 200grams this week. I'm really worried. Vet seems less so.
We've ordered some Hills food which is apparently easily digestible so will try him on that. He is showing signs of wanting to eat but doesn't eat much. Runny tummy persists.
I've got my dads dog cage to put him in whilst he is being fed so the other cats are not getting at his food. I might just feed all the cats on the Hills food if he likes it then that should make it easier for him to graze when he wants.
My daughter has taken Mirtazapine and I recall the constant grazing she had with that so will speak to the vets
We've ordered some Hills food which is apparently easily digestible so will try him on that. He is showing signs of wanting to eat but doesn't eat much. Runny tummy persists.
I've got my dads dog cage to put him in whilst he is being fed so the other cats are not getting at his food. I might just feed all the cats on the Hills food if he likes it then that should make it easier for him to graze when he wants.
My daughter has taken Mirtazapine and I recall the constant grazing she had with that so will speak to the vets
solo2 said:
He's lost another 200grams this week. I'm really worried. Vet seems less so.
We've ordered some Hills food which is apparently easily digestible so will try him on that. He is showing signs of wanting to eat but doesn't eat much. Runny tummy persists.
I've got my dads dog cage to put him in whilst he is being fed so the other cats are not getting at his food. I might just feed all the cats on the Hills food if he likes it then that should make it easier for him to graze when he wants.
My daughter has taken Mirtazapine and I recall the constant grazing she had with that so will speak to the vets
Keeping my fingers crossed that this has a good outcome.We've ordered some Hills food which is apparently easily digestible so will try him on that. He is showing signs of wanting to eat but doesn't eat much. Runny tummy persists.
I've got my dads dog cage to put him in whilst he is being fed so the other cats are not getting at his food. I might just feed all the cats on the Hills food if he likes it then that should make it easier for him to graze when he wants.
My daughter has taken Mirtazapine and I recall the constant grazing she had with that so will speak to the vets
Animals are such a worry for us
An hour ago Rolo ran over the rainbow bridge.
Today he just wouldn’t eat or drink and was dehydrated again. I could have got him on a drip at the vets but you could see he was depressed and he’d lost the will to fight it anymore
We are all hurting so much tonight but at long last our boy can sleep in peace.
Today he just wouldn’t eat or drink and was dehydrated again. I could have got him on a drip at the vets but you could see he was depressed and he’d lost the will to fight it anymore
We are all hurting so much tonight but at long last our boy can sleep in peace.
Sorry for your loss. I really am.
But I also cannot get past the feeling that you have prolonged Rolo's suffering from your own desire not to see what obvious suffering he was going through. I don't mean to sound harsh at this time, but you have decided to make this public in the first place. With all Rolo's problems perhaps the right thing would have been to let him go a lot sooner.
But I also cannot get past the feeling that you have prolonged Rolo's suffering from your own desire not to see what obvious suffering he was going through. I don't mean to sound harsh at this time, but you have decided to make this public in the first place. With all Rolo's problems perhaps the right thing would have been to let him go a lot sooner.
Tyre Smoke said:
Sorry for your loss. I really am.
But I also cannot get past the feeling that you have prolonged Rolo's suffering from your own desire not to see what obvious suffering he was going through. I don't mean to sound harsh at this time, but you have decided to make this public in the first place. With all Rolo's problems perhaps the right thing would have been to let him go a lot sooner.
Wow!But I also cannot get past the feeling that you have prolonged Rolo's suffering from your own desire not to see what obvious suffering he was going through. I don't mean to sound harsh at this time, but you have decided to make this public in the first place. With all Rolo's problems perhaps the right thing would have been to let him go a lot sooner.
You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but what possible benefit do you think that voicing it brings? In my experience (and I have had a number of pets put to sleep) you always beat yourself up. You question whether you should have tried treatment for longer, or whether you should have put them to sleep earlier.
I really don't think your comments are helpful in any respect.
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